Boston and Memphis: Green to Grizz

[giberish]

(Green may put up better stats on a bad team by shooting more, but that's not the same as being a better player).

I really feel that you're interpreting this wrong. There is no question that his efficiency took a major hit last year as he was being asked to be the #1 option on a terrible team, which is well beyond his abilities. But that doesn't prove he's an 8th option. Any natural 3rd or 4th option would have their efficiency suffer if asked to be 'the man'. Memphis doesn't need him to be 'the man', they need him to be 'the 4th man'. His '09-'13 campaigns, when he was filling the roll of a 3rd-4th option, were more respectable, if boasting lower raw stats.

Honestly, if you think that his best fit is as a 7th-9th man, then I believe that you are very far to one end of the bell curve in your evaluation of him. No one (except perhaps his mother) thinks he's got star potential in him anymore, but very few teams in this league have 5 superior starters. If Jeff Green is your worst starter, then you're doing very well.

For the C's last year, he was our best starter. That's why things looked so ugly.

He's a 3rd or 4th offensive option who's also well below-average on D. If that's you're 4th best player then you need a ridiculously good 'big 3' to be a contender. Most 50+ win teams had 5 or more better players.

I'd also argue that Bradley was the Celtics best player last year (due to his defense, primarily). Though Bradley as your best player is still a major problem.

[SMTBSI]

Well, there's no sense in beating it to death since it's not going to happen. I will say again that I think you're quite in the minority for ranking him that low (and I'm a good bit lower on Green than most C's fans), but it's not necessary that we convince each other.

Having seen them both play side by side on the same team for a good period, I will continue to assert that Green is clearly a better player than Lee, and Carter is not any kind of long term solution. And, in any case, Green wouldn't be replacing any of them - just Prince. Replacing Prince with any kind of contributor can only help Memphis next year, and they need to be seriously thinking about how they're going to get Gasol to stay.


But I understand if they'd want to retain flexibility to set their sights on bigger game than Green.

[Prospect Dong]

Well, there's no sense in beating it to death since it's not going to happen. I will say again that I think you're quite in the minority for ranking him that low (and I'm a good bit lower on Green than most C's fans), but it's not necessary that we convince each other.

Having seen them both play side by side on the same team for a good period, I will continue to assert that Green is clearly a better player than Lee, and Carter is not any kind of long term solution. And, in any case, Green wouldn't be replacing any of them - just Prince. Replacing Prince with any kind of contributor can only help Memphis next year, and they need to be seriously thinking about how they're going to get Gasol to stay.


But I understand if they'd want to retain flexibility to set their sights on bigger game than Green.

I think the strcuture makes a lot of sense, and that Grene would start at the 3 and play some backup 4, since Davis has left.

I'm not sure about who needs to add value in a Green for Prince swap. Prince is obviously an overpaid but useful expiring, and I guess I'm just not sure Green is worth his current deal, though it's fair to say that he's better value based on recently signed deals than he was two years ago. I'ts not too long ago that Green was considered a terrible contract, and the main thing that's changed since then is that his team mates have gotten worse and he's started putting up nicer counting stats as a result.

So I think the deal works, but I'd be making a case that Boston needs to send a small amount of value the Grizzlies' way, since I think Green is cumulatively more overpaid than Prince, but I'm not all that certain I'm right...

[Golabki]

I'm a celtics fan who doesn't like Green much and loves Adams... so I'd be excited about it.

Taking my Adams love out of it, I think the Celtics do this unless they really think Adams was badly overdrafted. I've long said that Ainge would take a late first or the equivalent for Green and Adams would seem to qualify.

I wouldn't worry about the fact that Adams is a SG. He's big enough to play some 3 and for the immediate future you can just NBDL him.

In year's past this would have made more sense for Mem, but that actually have decent depth on the wing now with Allen/Carter/Lee/Pondexter.

[ballup]

As much as I like this for Memphis, getting more players back and the more valuable one being a 2 guard isn't one I'd bite on.

Lee better than Green? Wow, that's something I would have never thought of. Sure Lee has a specialty Iin on ball defense and 3s, but he has holes in his game such as finishing at the rim. Green, on the other hand, is pretty average, above average at everything.

[greenandgold]

Jeff Green ranked the 61st best small forward in the league according to ESPN's RPM statistic, right after Alan Anderson and right before Evan Turner.

There's not much in traditional or advanced statistics that indicate Green is better than a replacement player (random guy called up from the D-League).

He will continue to get chances based on his Georgetown/OKC pedigree and his great athleticism, but he doesn't get the job done on the court.

[cl2117]

Jeff Green ranked the 61st best small forward in the league according to ESPN's RPM statistic, right after Alan Anderson and right before Evan Turner.

There's not much in traditional or advanced statistics that indicate Green is better than a replacement player (random guy called up from the D-League).

He will continue to get chances based on his Georgetown/OKC pedigree and his great athleticism, but he doesn't get the job done on the court.

Hyperbole much?

[Golabki]

Jeff Green ranked the 61st best small forward in the league according to ESPN's RPM statistic, right after Alan Anderson and right before Evan Turner.

There's not much in traditional or advanced statistics that indicate Green is better than a replacement player (random guy called up from the D-League).

He will continue to get chances based on his Georgetown/OKC pedigree and his great athleticism, but he doesn't get the job done on the court.

Hyperbole much?

i don't have the RPM numbers but I thought this type of stat put him around -1 or -2... Which is mediocre starter, solid bench player range... Certainly better than replacement.

That said, if you are a stats guy you can make the case green is well overpaid and should be considered a negative trade asset:


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[Curmudgeon]

Tayshaun Prince is just another Gerald Wallace, and Jordan Adams would be just another shooting guard on a roster that already has 4 or 5 of them. For starters, James Young is going to be twice the player that Jordan Adams will ever be.

[Scoot McGroot]

Tayshaun Prince is just another Gerald Wallace....

Well, Tayshaun can at least kind/sorta still play. And he's expiring, while Gerald isn't. And he's paid 75% for this season of what Gerald is owed.

So, really, except for their weight, draft position (many years ago), and position played, there's not really much in common anymore between the two.

[Curmudgeon]

Tayshaun Prince is just another Gerald Wallace....

Well, Tayshaun can at least kind/sorta still play. And he's expiring, while Gerald isn't. And he's paid 75% for this season of what Gerald is owed.

So, really, except for their weight, draft position (many years ago), and position played, there's not really much in common anymore between the two.

Sure there is. They are both fading veterans who have no business clogging up the roster of a rebuilding team. Why not just keep Green? It's not as though Jordan Adams is enough of an inducement to take on another crappy veteran like Prince.

[sisibilio]

I'd assume that Allen and Lee would start. Both are just better NBA players than Green (Green may put up better stats on a bad team by shooting more, but that's not the same as being a better player). Allen's a mainstay in Memphis and Lee really helped Memphis with his addition midseason. It's a bit small, but any big SF who's a first option (such as Durant) is going to see a lot of Tony Allen anyway, and a big SF who's just a role player can be defended by a smaller guy. Carter got full MLE money to play, likely as a top reserve (3rd wing in the rotation).

Lee and Allen barely played together last season despite Prince being far from stellar, i don't see why it would be any different with Green instead of Prince.
Something like

SG - Lee (24-28) / Allen (20-24)
SF - Green (15-18) / Carter (20-22) / Pondexter (10-12)
PF - Randolph (30-33) / Green (8-10) / Leuer (5-8)

[Scoot McGroot]

Tayshaun Prince is just another Gerald Wallace....

Well, Tayshaun can at least kind/sorta still play. And he's expiring, while Gerald isn't. And he's paid 75% for this season of what Gerald is owed.

So, really, except for their weight, draft position (many years ago), and position played, there's not really much in common anymore between the two.

Sure there is. They are both fading veterans who have no business clogging up the roster of a rebuilding team. Why not just keep Green? It's not as though Jordan Adams is enough of an inducement to take on another crappy veteran like Prince.

Well, if it's just the Adams thing, look at a flip to get a prospect at another position. But, if it's a choice of Green, a wing who likely won't be part of the rebuild, or Tayshaun and Adams, a prospect wing who could be a part of the rebuild, it's a fair question to look at. However, to be almost $30m under the salary cap with only Rondo as a guy to re-sign is an interesting spot, even if you don't think you could net free agents. Cap space, with the picks and numerous prospects y'all have, could be very interesting to have.

OR, you could do something like this, and then use Adams and a slightly lesser combo of picks to move Wallace for an expiring. There's options. But, if you think Green is a long-term piece for you, then don't consider it.

[165bows]

Tayshaun Prince is just another Gerald Wallace....

Well, Tayshaun can at least kind/sorta still play. And he's expiring, while Gerald isn't. And he's paid 75% for this season of what Gerald is owed.

So, really, except for their weight, draft position (many years ago), and position played, there's not really much in common anymore between the two.

Sure there is. They are both fading veterans who have no business clogging up the roster of a rebuilding team. Why not just keep Green? It's not as though Jordan Adams is enough of an inducement to take on another crappy veteran like Prince.

Yeah I'm really hard pressed to figure how Prince is better than Wallace on the court. Contractually sure he's on a much less terrible deal but I'd take Wallace over Prince if they were both on one year vet min deals.

Prince had the second lowest TS% in the league last year of guys that played 1000+ minutes. He's also got half the steal and block rates Wallace does. If Wallace is awful what is Prince, besides a lot older?