Brooklyn Nets Offseason Review

[Smitty731]

Current Salary Cap Status: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1317166

Players Resigned: Alan Anderson

Additions: Bojan Bogdanovic, Markel Brown, Jarrett Jack, Cory Jefferson, Jerome Jordan, Sergey Karasev

Subtractions: Andray Blatche, Jason Collins, Shaun Livingston, Paul Pierce, Marcus Thornton

Predicted Opening Night Depth Chart (assumes a 15 man roster for all teams, new additions in bold):
PG: Deron Williams, Jarrett Jack, Marquis Teague, Jorge Gutierrez
SG: Joe Johnson, Bojan Bogdanovic, Sergey Karasev, Markel Brown
SF: Alan Anderson, Andrei Kirilenko
PF: Kevin Garnett, Mirza Teletovic, Cory Jefferson
C: Brook Lopez, Mason Plumlee

Offseason Grade: D

Analysis: I just don’t see anything great here. I like the Jack addition. I’m happy they got Bogdanovic to come over, and I’m curious to see what he can do. Beyond that, they didn’t do anything. They lost key guys in Pierce and Livingston. They might have been the Nets two best players over the entire year. Thornton seemed to have more value than just being given away to get Jack to me.

Pending Garnett’s decision to play or retire (I think he plays and makes this his last year), the Nets are probably slightly worse than last year. Some of that is that the East as a whole has slid back a bit. So, they will be in the mix for the 7th or 8th seed. But they are paying this team like it is a contender. At least they didn’t lock in to any more long term disasters of deals.

[Texas Chuck]

Im not sure what else the Nets could really do. Sadly their season depends on DWill finding form he hasn't since Utah, KG being able to give them 1500-2000 minutes and Brook Lopez staying healthy. Its really a nightmare of a situation where Plumlee is the only guy who might be on your roster once the mess is cleared out and you have so few draft picks to show for it.

[165bows]

Did the east really slide back as a whole?

I mean, the conference added Love, Gasol, likely Derrick Rose returns, maybe Rondo returns to form. Phil Jackson and Stan Van Gundy were added to front offices and coaching roles. The other FA losses all moved to other EC teams, guys like Pierce, Stephenson, Deng, etc.

Big loss is Paul George and Indy's strength at the top, but I actually think it's deeper than it was. Cleveland supplants Indy as a top team in conference, and Miami should be better than Cleveland was last year.

[Smitty731]

I feel like the East is as strong as before at the top. Cleveland basically replaces Indiana. After that Chicago is strong, and Toronto and Washington should both be very good. Charlotte looks solid, as does Miami. So the top is strong and the middle is ok. After that, the rest is kind of meh to me. Atlanta looks like it could have that mess hanging over them all year. And who knows what direction a new owner and front office will want to go? Brooklyn and New York are the same teams as before, just older. Detroit still has all the same problems as before. I love SVG, but I don't think he fixes it until he gets rid of one out of Smith, Monroe and Drummond. Indiana is going to drop off. Potentially way off. I can't see how they are anywhere near even being a playoff team. Unless Miles and one of the new guys is amazing, they are going to struggle to score big time. Boston, Orlando, and Philadelphia are all going to be as bad as last year most likely. Milwaukee is fascinating. If Parker can score, they stay healthy and guys fit their roles, I could see them making a push for the playoffs.

That was a very long way of saying that I think the bottom is worse than previous and probably the middle too. Very strong at the top. The rest of the conference just seems weak to me. So, I can see Brooklyn, New York, Atlanta (if they don't blow it up) feasting on the bottom and beating up on each other. That is how I have Brooklyn just sliding in the playoffs.

[165bows]

I feel like the East is as strong as before at the top. Cleveland basically replaces Indiana. After that Chicago is strong, and Toronto and Washington should both be very good. Charlotte looks solid, as does Miami. So the top is strong and the middle is ok. After that, the rest is kind of meh to me. Atlanta looks like it could have that mess hanging over them all year. And who knows what direction a new owner and front office will want to go? Brooklyn and New York are the same teams as before, just older. Detroit still has all the same problems as before. I love SVG, but I don't think he fixes it until he gets rid of one out of Smith, Monroe and Drummond. Indiana is going to drop off. Potentially way off. I can't see how they are anywhere near even being a playoff team. Unless Miles and one of the new guys is amazing, they are going to struggle to score big time. Boston, Orlando, and Philadelphia are all going to be as bad as last year most likely. Milwaukee is fascinating. If Parker can score, they stay healthy and guys fit their roles, I could see them making a push for the playoffs.

That was a very long way of saying that I think the bottom is worse than previous and probably the middle too. Very strong at the top. The rest of the conference just seems weak to me. So, I can see Brooklyn, New York, Atlanta (if they don't blow it up) feasting on the bottom and beating up on each other. That is how I have Brooklyn just sliding in the playoffs.

Atlanta I think doesn't really have the opportunity to really not try to do well since the fan support is not as deep as elsewhere, that's at least from what I've gathered. So to me they can at least theoretically be better with good health.

I see what you're saying I just think the middle is a little beefier (CHI adding Gasol/Rose eg) and I think the bottom save Philly is a little better as well, but I know plenty of people won't agree with that.

I agree that personally those same teams you mentioned (NY, BRK, Det, Indy and maybe Atlanta) have some underperformance risk IMO.

[Trader_Joe]

Some things...

Depth Chart:

PG: Deron Williams, Jarrett Jack, Marquis Teague
Wings: JJ + AK or AA or Bogdanovic (no one has a clue at the moment who starts next to JJ)
M.Brown, Karasev
PF: Kevin Garnett, Mirza Teletovic, Corey Jefferson
C: Brook Lopez, Mason Plumlee, Jerome Jordan or Willie Reed

Guitterez will probably be waived and Corey Jefferson is not a lock to make the team either with a non-guaranteed deal.

Personally, I think they made generally smart moves this off-season as in, get younger and not lock into multi-year deals with PP or Blatche in particular. They were limited in what they can do but finally brought over Bogdanovic who's been hyped for years and had a huge FIBA tournament and nearly knocked out France by himself. They also bought 3 second rounders for about $2m total.

The Jack/Thornton deal made sense as SL was leaving for more money and there was no room or need for Thornton. Not sure what more they could have done with him in particular. They need a better back up than Teague or Guitterez and Jack is 50x better than either. Plus he can shoot, which SL couldn't do.

Otherwise what could they do in general?
You have to consider their lack of assets or cap flexibility. Should their grade be based on the past or the now?

While they didn't have the best off-season, I give them a solid B-.

Most importantly the team is the healthiest it's been in ages.. as in everyone is playing 5 on 5 right now. D.Will, JJ, Lopez (with a much worse supporting cast -Wallace/Evans- and coach- PJC) won 49 games, and I don't think the East has improved that much since 2 years ago.

And while I normally chastise people for praising their own team/players in discussion, considering I never really hype or praise any of the players or the team, I will this time and say I do think they are being overlooked this year. Seems most people have them out of the playoffs and under .500. I am pretty sure that will not be the case. While I'm not expecting 50+ wins (I think 45 is fair), I think they will be solidly in the playoffs. The mantra this year is "flying under the radar" as in finally no one is talking about them like they have been the last couple off-seasons with the outrageous trades and signings and move to Brooklyn. They are perfectly content that way.. as am I as a fan.

[Smitty731]

Some things...

Depth Chart:

PG: Deron Williams, Jarrett Jack, Marquis Teague
Wings: JJ + AK or AA or Bogdanovic (no one has a clue at the moment who starts next to JJ)
M.Brown, Karasev
PF: Kevin Garnett, Mirza Teletovic, Corey Jefferson
C: Brook Lopez, Mason Plumlee, Jerome Jordan or Willie Reed

Guitterez will probably be waived and Corey Jefferson is not a lock to make the team either with a non-guaranteed deal.

Personally, I think they made generally smart moves this off-season as in, get younger and not lock into multi-year deals with PP or Blatche in particular. They were limited in what they can do but finally brought over Bogdanovic who's been hyped for years and had a huge FIBA tournament and nearly knocked out France by himself. They also bought 3 second rounders for about $2m total.

The Jack/Thornton deal made sense as SL was leaving for more money and there was no room or need for Thornton. Not sure what more they could have done with him in particular. They need a better back up than Teague or Guitterez and Jack is 50x better than either. Plus he can shoot, which SL couldn't do.

Otherwise what could they do in general?
You have to consider their lack of assets or cap flexibility. Should their grade be based on the past or the now?

While they didn't have the best off-season, I give them a solid B-.

Most importantly the team is the healthiest it's been in ages.. as in everyone is playing 5 on 5 right now. D.Will, JJ, Lopez (with a much worse supporting cast -Wallace/Evans- and coach- PJC) won 49 games, and I don't think the East has improved that much since 2 years ago.

And while I normally chastise people for praising their own team/players in discussion, considering I never really hype or praise any of the players or the team, I will this time and say I do think they are being overlooked this year. Seems most people have them out of the playoffs and under .500. I am pretty sure that will not be the case. While I'm not expecting 50+ wins (I think 45 is fair), I think they will be solidly in the playoffs. The mantra this year is "flying under the radar" as in finally no one is talking about them like they have been the last couple off-seasons with the outrageous trades and signings and move to Brooklyn. They are perfectly content that way.. as am I as a fan.

The depth chart there is a bit tricky, because there is some duplication on the roster. Especially at the wing spot. A lot of them could play either spot really. Same with the backup SF and PF. So, thanks for the thoughts.

I know I was a bit harsh on the grade, but it was mostly about what they lost vs what they added. I think from opening night through the playoffs that Pierce and Livingston were the best guys they had. If Bogdanovic can play, they replace some of what they lost. I don't think Jack is horrible as people made him out to be last year. And he seems to be a guy who plays better with the bright lights on him. He's only a year removed from being awesome for Golden State.

I think Brooklyn is a playoff team, provided they are reasonably healthy. And I agree about being under the radar. Nothing showy this offseason for them. If nothing else, I think they are still better than the Knicks!

[Trader_Joe]

Some things...

Depth Chart:

PG: Deron Williams, Jarrett Jack, Marquis Teague
Wings: JJ + AK or AA or Bogdanovic (no one has a clue at the moment who starts next to JJ)
M.Brown, Karasev
PF: Kevin Garnett, Mirza Teletovic, Corey Jefferson
C: Brook Lopez, Mason Plumlee, Jerome Jordan or Willie Reed

Guitterez will probably be waived and Corey Jefferson is not a lock to make the team either with a non-guaranteed deal.

Personally, I think they made generally smart moves this off-season as in, get younger and not lock into multi-year deals with PP or Blatche in particular. They were limited in what they can do but finally brought over Bogdanovic who's been hyped for years and had a huge FIBA tournament and nearly knocked out France by himself. They also bought 3 second rounders for about $2m total.

The Jack/Thornton deal made sense as SL was leaving for more money and there was no room or need for Thornton. Not sure what more they could have done with him in particular. They need a better back up than Teague or Guitterez and Jack is 50x better than either. Plus he can shoot, which SL couldn't do.

Otherwise what could they do in general?
You have to consider their lack of assets or cap flexibility. Should their grade be based on the past or the now?

While they didn't have the best off-season, I give them a solid B-.

Most importantly the team is the healthiest it's been in ages.. as in everyone is playing 5 on 5 right now. D.Will, JJ, Lopez (with a much worse supporting cast -Wallace/Evans- and coach- PJC) won 49 games, and I don't think the East has improved that much since 2 years ago.

And while I normally chastise people for praising their own team/players in discussion, considering I never really hype or praise any of the players or the team, I will this time and say I do think they are being overlooked this year. Seems most people have them out of the playoffs and under .500. I am pretty sure that will not be the case. While I'm not expecting 50+ wins (I think 45 is fair), I think they will be solidly in the playoffs. The mantra this year is "flying under the radar" as in finally no one is talking about them like they have been the last couple off-seasons with the outrageous trades and signings and move to Brooklyn. They are perfectly content that way.. as am I as a fan.

The depth chart there is a bit tricky, because there is some duplication on the roster. Especially at the wing spot. A lot of them could play either spot really. Same with the backup SF and PF. So, thanks for the thoughts.

I know I was a bit harsh on the grade, but it was mostly about what they lost vs what they added. I think from opening night through the playoffs that Pierce and Livingston were the best guys they had. If Bogdanovic can play, they replace some of what they lost. I don't think Jack is horrible as people made him out to be last year. And he seems to be a guy who plays better with the bright lights on him. He's only a year removed from being awesome for Golden State.

I think Brooklyn is a playoff team, provided they are reasonably healthy. And I agree about being under the radar. Nothing showy this offseason for them. If nothing else, I think they are still better than the Knicks!

I'll agree with that last statement!


Their main losses:

Pierce:
While I think losing him is a bit of a hit, I think it's more for his leadership than his play.

He started horribly and had to be moved to PF because he wasn't cutting at SF in Kidd's eyes, esp. on D. His minutes at SF go to JJ (rather him get more shots) and AK (who wants more minutes this year) and Bogdanovic (who might not have come over if PP was still here as he wanted to play now) and at PF his minutes go to Teletovic (a better stretch PF), KG, AK and hopefully Plumlee can play there.

His leadership will hopefully be taken up by Hollins and then on the court KG, Anderson, Jack are players Hollins has already cited need to lead. His hero ball will go to JJ. Losing his play-making and ball-handling means D.Will controls the ball more (a big reason for the drop in assists) which I prefer.


Blatche:
He wanted back badly. The FO did not want him back at all. Heard the team would have given him away if he opted in. Their relationship was that strained (rumor was he was showing up drunk on more than one occasion.. for more see the thread on the GB about him). No NBA team wanted him despite having great size, offensive skill and rebounding ability and a top 15 PER. Speaks volumes.

His minutes go to Lopez (biggest addition of the off-season), Plumlee and KG at C and he barely played PF last year.


Livingston:
They wouldn't have been able to keep him, but I would call him our biggest loss over the other two. He did fall off in the playoffs (down 2-3 and getting torched by DD after game 1, Kidd put in Anderson and the Nets came back). His minutes at SG will go to Anderson, JJ, Jack, Bogdanovic. His minutes at PG will go to Jack. SL was surprisingly ineffective running the 2nd unit and while Jack isn't the facilitator SL is in theory, he can shoot and might mesh with the 2nd unit better.

Overall, yes the Nets lost talent but
a. They were a very deep team
b. They will be playing differently under Hollins (he wouldn't have done small ball with PP at PF)
c. They are adding back a healthy Lopez, D.Will with scoped out ankles (finally)
d. They are getting younger (Brown, Karasev, Jefferson, Bogdanovic to add to Plumlee, Teague and the still improving Teletovic)
e. I think Hollins fits this team better than Kidd (they aren't meant to run)
f. If you want to compare us to 2 years (IMO the better comparison as I think Hollins will play closer to Avery/PJC than Kidd) that was a 49 win team with a lesser cast, but if last year is still the comparison, they were one of the best teams in the East from January onwards (34-17 or a .667 win %) and only 6 teams were still playing (only 4 got further in rounds) when they went out of the playoffs to Miami.


Also.. appreciate you starting the discussion.

[jayjaysee]

The offseason should be better rated IMO..

When you are as committed as the Nets are - there isn't much room with what they can do..

Bogs could be as good as last year's version of Pierce. Maybe not as smart, or the leader but the game could be as good. And with Deron/Joe they should have plenty of leadership.. Though I know Pierce was clearly the leader last year.

Plumlee and Teletovic should both improve.. Jack probably isn't as good as last year's Livingston but he has been a better player over the course of his career. He doesn't come with as heavy an injury risk.. And he came for free..

And Karasev could be a nice shooter off the bench as well.


And like others have said.. If Lopez is healthy, they are in playoff race with Lopez/Joe - Teletovic/Jack/Plumlee/AK/and a dash of KG.. If Deron is healthy and Utah(ish) they are a playoff team and can make the second round..

They didn't mess with their future plans and added a bit of youth.

Also I don't really understand Bogs contract (3 years with a QO after?) but if he is a solid starter, which seems to be low-level expectations - him and Plumlee should make Brooklyn look a lot more attractive to free agents in 2016.. So not sure if Brooklyn made the contract offer that way, or if it some old rookie deal standard? But either way - it should be considered a big asset to have him and Plumlee combining for less than 6 million that offseason.. They could easily be the 2 worst starters on a contender by that point...

[165bows]

I agree with Smitty on this even if the grade could be a little less harsh. From my perspective Pierce was a big loss and the current front court doesn't mesh well. Lopez/KG is too immobile on defense and Lopez/Plumlee occupy too much of the same space on offense. Plus it's pretty easy for any team to come up with a late first like Karasev and some second rounders to consider it that a substantial youth movement.

That said I agree that they can grab a playoff spot if their core guys are healthy and perform. For me though I'd be concerned about the overall athleticism and perhaps the production out of the forward spots.

[Trader_Joe]

I agree with Smitty on this even if the grade could be a little less harsh. From my perspective Pierce was a big loss and the current front court doesn't mesh well. Lopez/KG is too immobile on defense and Lopez/Plumlee occupy too much of the same space on offense. Plus it's pretty easy for any team to come up with a late first like Karasev and some second rounders to consider it that a substantial youth movement.

That said I agree that they can grab a playoff spot if their core guys are healthy and perform. For me though I'd be concerned about the overall athleticism and perhaps the production out of the forward spots.

Karasev was a #19 pick who many thought was lotto talent including the Nets who tried to move up to get him last year. Of course the Russian angle helps with AK and Proky there. Already they are talking about him at workouts.

And while PF is a question mark...C looks very good with Lopez/KG/Plumlee all healthy right now. Certainly some combo of one of them will work with Mirza, AK or KG/Plumlee at PF. Either way, we look to have our best PF position since K.Mart was here....sadly. Lots of options.

[165bows]

I agree with Smitty on this even if the grade could be a little less harsh. From my perspective Pierce was a big loss and the current front court doesn't mesh well. Lopez/KG is too immobile on defense and Lopez/Plumlee occupy too much of the same space on offense. Plus it's pretty easy for any team to come up with a late first like Karasev and some second rounders to consider it that a substantial youth movement.

That said I agree that they can grab a playoff spot if their core guys are healthy and perform. For me though I'd be concerned about the overall athleticism and perhaps the production out of the forward spots.

Karasev was a #19 pick who many thought was lotto talent including the Nets who tried to move up to get him last year. Of course the Russian angle helps with AK and Proky there. Already they are talking about him at workouts.

And while PF is a question mark...C looks very good with Lopez/KG/Plumlee all healthy right now. Certainly some combo of one of them will work with Mirza, AK or KG/Plumlee at PF. Either way, we look to have our best PF position since K.Mart was here....sadly. Lots of options.

Yeah I meant more in respect to the relative strength of the offseason rather than just the team quality as a whole. Like I said I think they are playoff caliber if their top guys can produce.

But why is the four spot better than last year? Pierce had the highest PER (not that I love that stat but it's something) while playing that position last year and is arguably the best fit offensively with Lopez returning. I guess I just don't understand the rationale that PF looks better this year than last, unless it's the idea that KG/Plumlee can shift back there with Lopez back. Which I don't agree with but not sure if that's the rationale or not.

Just my opinion but I thought Pierce was a big loss (though no guarantee he repeats the performance this year either way), not only as a player but the fit and flexibility loss was a part of it as well.

[Trader_Joe]

I agree with Smitty on this even if the grade could be a little less harsh. From my perspective Pierce was a big loss and the current front court doesn't mesh well. Lopez/KG is too immobile on defense and Lopez/Plumlee occupy too much of the same space on offense. Plus it's pretty easy for any team to come up with a late first like Karasev and some second rounders to consider it that a substantial youth movement.

That said I agree that they can grab a playoff spot if their core guys are healthy and perform. For me though I'd be concerned about the overall athleticism and perhaps the production out of the forward spots.

Karasev was a #19 pick who many thought was lotto talent including the Nets who tried to move up to get him last year. Of course the Russian angle helps with AK and Proky there. Already they are talking about him at workouts.

And while PF is a question mark...C looks very good with Lopez/KG/Plumlee all healthy right now. Certainly some combo of one of them will work with Mirza, AK or KG/Plumlee at PF. Either way, we look to have our best PF position since K.Mart was here....sadly. Lots of options.

Yeah I meant more in respect to the relative strength of the offseason rather than just the team quality as a whole. Like I said I think they are playoff caliber if their top guys can produce.

But why is the four spot better than last year? Pierce had the highest PER (not that I love that stat but it's something) while playing that position last year and is arguably the best fit offensively with Lopez returning. I guess I just don't understand the rationale that PF looks better this year than last, unless it's the idea that KG/Plumlee can shift back there with Lopez back. Which I don't agree with but not sure if that's the rationale or not.

Just my opinion but I thought Pierce was a big loss (though no guarantee he repeats the performance this year either way), not only as a player but the fit and flexibility loss was a part of it as well.

I didn't really count half a season of PP at PF as our PF of any real time period, especially not a sustainable one.

Also, while he did work there, I don't think he would with Lopez. Already, we got killed on the glass worse than any team the 2nd half of last year with him there.

If the stretch angle is sought, Mirza is the better option (most of us fans wanted him to stay in games as opposed to PP coming in as PP's "hero ball" as many dubbed it was frustrating). If it's rebounding KG, AK, Plums all better options and on defense.

Finally, Hollins isn't the type of coach who like small-ball, so I don't think we would have seen PP at PF had he stuck around. For what Hollins will likely play, I like our options better this year... as in more minutes to those guys which also in effect gives more shots to JJ ( a good thing) and more play-making and ball-handling to D.Will (a good thing again IMO).

So, yes while half a season of a gimmicky style that Kidd employed did work, I still think there is more potential at the position than we have had since Kenyon.

[vincecarter4pres]

Health will be the main issue for the Nets. If mainly healthy I think this team is really going to surprise people, at least regular season record wise.

If healthy to me they're at least a 48 win top 4 seed.

But this is a team with a wide open range when factoring in everything including suspect health. I'd say as is they could go anywhere from low 30's up to around 54 wins.