Brooklyn/Detroit/Portland 8 Player Swap...

[Prokorov]

The only player I'm not a fan of his is D.Will but that's been more for his attitude. He can't help the injuries and when healthy he's been great.

Prokorov is the only one I know that hates Lopez...and Deron.
This team is nothing without them though.

"nothing" without them?

this team played its best basketball since moving to brooklyn without lopez last season and while dwill was on the floor he was pretty useless having his worst season since his rookie year

This is a very different team than last year.
Look back to two years, any chance we sniff the playoffs without D.Will and/or Lopez?
I also don't think having the highest +/- by far is useless. As I said, when healthy, he's been great. However, that's been a rare occurrence, though he looks good now.

i dont see how saying "we are nothing without them" and then pointing to 2 or 3 years ago makes any sense in a trade discussion about this year?

sure, would a team of watson, johnson, wallace, evans, blatche be a great team? no probably not. but take both of this team and we still are a 40ish win playoff team we are right now.

+/- is a team statistics and is useless for evalutating the impact of single individuals

[Trader_Joe]

"nothing" without them?

this team played its best basketball since moving to brooklyn without lopez last season and while dwill was on the floor he was pretty useless having his worst season since his rookie year

This is a very different team than last year.
Look back to two years, any chance we sniff the playoffs without D.Will and/or Lopez?
I also don't think having the highest +/- by far is useless. As I said, when healthy, he's been great. However, that's been a rare occurrence, though he looks good now.

i dont see how saying "we are nothing without them" and then pointing to 2 or 3 years ago makes any sense in a trade discussion about this year?

sure, would a team of watson, johnson, wallace, evans, blatche be a great team? no probably not. but take both of this team and we still are a 40ish win playoff team we are right now.

+/- is a team statistics and is useless for evalutating the impact of single individuals

Its relevant since we are much closer to the team two gears ago than last year. Take D.aWill and Lopez off that team or this team and we are a 30 win team. Not sure why you can reference a much different team from last year but i cant reference a more similar one from one year prior. Look at the offense and what Hollins likes. Post and pick and roll. D.Will is the best pick and roll player and Lopez hr best post player.
And +/- is very relevant especially when it was such a large gap between him on and off and we supposedly had a good back up PG and decent bench and both the starters and bench played better with D.Will.

[Prokorov]

Its relevant since we are much closer to the team two gears ago than last year. Take D.aWill and Lopez off that team or this team and we are a 30 win team. Not sure why you can reference a much different team from last year but i cant reference a more similar one from one year prior. Look at the offense and what Hollins likes. .

We certainly are NOT much closer to that team. that team relied on heavy minutes from a 40 year old jerry stackhouse... had no depth, and no athletes. This team has a ton more depth: Bogs, Jack, Plumlee, Garnett, Kirilenko. Mirza is now in year 3 as opposed to year 1. we likely have a better coaching situation.

This years team is the same as last with the exception of Pierce -> bogs and Livingston->jack.

this years team is nothing like the team 2 years ago. not in style not in depth not in talent

this team without dwill and lopez wins 40 games for sure. this team if it lost just brook lopez probably wins more games then if lopez plays all year.

D.Will is the best pick and roll player and Lopez hr best post player.

Lopez isnt our best post player, joe johnson is. dwill is probably our best pick and roll player, but jack and joe johnson are both VERY capable.

And +/- is very relevant especially when it was such a large gap between him on and off and we supposedly had a good back up PG and decent bench and both the starters and bench played better with D.Will

+/- is completely and utterly useless when evaluating individuals. 5 man units, sure its certainly useful there, but for individuals it assume all 9 players stay the same when that players goes to the bench, which is a horrible and nearly always incorrect assumption.

there is a reason there is always an enormous difference between the top 25 players in the league and the top 25 +/- in the league