BKN/GSW Nets get better defensively, Kerr goes for post

[jayjaysee]

I think they are good trade partners if GSW think Green is the starting PF going forward and resign him.. a deal based around KG for Lee just seems to make a lot of sense, as it has for the last year and a half. Add AK in there and the Warriors defense gets even better somehow. But I think GSW would need MT in a trade of Lee, not AK.. And I agree the Nets wouldn't have him available in a deal just for Lee. Though I don't even think AK would be available given the family ties.

I know Brooklyn kind of wants to get under the tax to be able to do sign and trades next summer, but adding Lee would up the ceiling for next year, ya? If healthy Lopez/Lee/Joe/Deron with Plumlee/MT/Bogs/Jack.. Looks legit enough to spend 160 million on no? :/

I'd do Lee for KG & AK47. That would be pretty fair imo. Maybe you guys throw in a spare #2 pick since we don't have any. You'd guys have the best white frontcourt in the NBA.

I'm a Mavs fan. And Lopez/Lee/Plumlee/MT.... Deep white.. :/ sorry* I doubt the Nets add value to a KG/AK for Lee swap. The value is the Warriors getting two more top tier defensive players (albeit they can only combine to play 30-36 mpg of top defense) but hey.. Add that to Bogut/Green/Iggy/Klay who already made for a top (i don't know number) defense..... And not having to pay Lee next year - which makes bringing back Green (6-8 mil no?) and Klay (max?) very very easy.

But everyone talking about how bad defensively a Lopez/Lee front court would be.. Really just don't know anything about Lopez at all. I'm far too lazy to check stats for this thread, but Lopez has not been bad at defense in years. That general thought on him is just confusing to me. No stat/advanced-or-not backs it up really, and people still just swear by it and ignore all stats/arguments.

Very lazy response, sorry.

[Boarder Patrol]

So the Warriors trade Iggy and Bogut for bad contracts?

Correction, I don't know if I should say bad in the traditional overpaid/toxic sense. More like questionable. Brook when he's healthy is perfect for his deal, and Jack has shown he can live up to his contract as well. Factoring in Brook's foot issues and seeing how Jack played last year, I wouldn't have much confidence going forward though.

[Trader_Joe]

I think they are good trade partners if GSW think Green is the starting PF going forward and resign him.. a deal based around KG for Lee just seems to make a lot of sense, as it has for the last year and a half. Add AK in there and the Warriors defense gets even better somehow. But I think GSW would need MT in a trade of Lee, not AK.. And I agree the Nets wouldn't have him available in a deal just for Lee. Though I don't even think AK would be available given the family ties.

I know Brooklyn kind of wants to get under the tax to be able to do sign and trades next summer, but adding Lee would up the ceiling for next year, ya? If healthy Lopez/Lee/Joe/Deron with Plumlee/MT/Bogs/Jack.. Looks legit enough to spend 160 million on no? :/

I'd do Lee for KG & AK47. That would be pretty fair imo. Maybe you guys throw in a spare #2 pick since we don't have any. You'd guys have the best white frontcourt in the NBA.

I'm a Mavs fan. And Lopez/Lee/Plumlee/MT.... Deep white.. :/ sorry* I doubt the Nets add value to a KG/AK for Lee swap. The value is the Warriors getting two more top tier defensive players (albeit they can only combine to play 30-36 mpg of top defense) but hey.. Add that to Bogut/Green/Iggy/Klay who already made for a top (i don't know number) defense..... And not having to pay Lee next year - which makes bringing back Green (6-8 mil no?) and Klay (max?) very very easy.

But everyone talking about how bad defensively a Lopez/Lee front court would be.. Really just don't know anything about Lopez at all. I'm far too lazy to check stats for this thread, but Lopez has not been bad at defense in years. That general thought on him is just confusing to me. No stat/advanced-or-not backs it up really, and people still just swear by it and ignore all stats/arguments.

Very lazy response, sorry.

While I think Lopez is above average defensively and can have an impact in the paint, he's still not the defender Bogut is who is one of the best. Lee is pretty bad so having a top notch defensive guy like Bogut is imperative. Not sure Brooks major offensive advantage makes that up, especially to a team with plenty of scoring from Curry, Thompson and Lee.

[eitanr]

Just throwing this out there, but does KG for Iggy work? Maybe BKN throws a 2nd?

[Trader_Joe]

Just throwing this out there, but does KG for Iggy work? Maybe BKN throws a 2nd?

While you may get people on here to sign off, no the Nets wouldn't do that by adding $11m in payroll in 2016.

[eitanr]

TJ - I'd disagree. We saw with the Cavs that If the opportunity came up in 2016 for BKN to actually make a run at top FAs they should be able to dump a then expiring Deron and Iggy to do so likely using future picks (which at that point they'll be able to deal future picks).

The Nets cannot be on a 2016 free agency surge or bust. That is just dumb strategy. If they can make themselves far more competitive in the interim and potentially challenge the Cavs that's what they have to do.

Will adding Iggy on such a move do that? Likely not, but it's a step in the right direction. Iggy adds much needed defense, another playmaker and increase their overall assist rates. It would also depend on how Hollins would use him.

The bigger move would need to be moving Lopez which may not happen yet due to his injury. A clever idea for later in the year is potentially making a move with Denver sending he along with Jack for McGee and Gallo.

In the end, the team still improves drastically post deal and at the very least challenges Toronto for the division

[Trader_Joe]

TJ - I'd disagree. We saw with the Cavs that If the opportunity came up in 2016 for BKN to actually make a run at top FAs they should be able to dump a then expiring Deron and Iggy to do so likely using future picks (which at that point they'll be able to deal future picks).

The Nets cannot be on a 2016 free agency surge or bust. That is just dumb strategy. If they can make themselves far more competitive in the interim and potentially challenge the Cavs that's what they have to do.

Will adding Iggy on such a move do that? Likely not, but it's a step in the right direction. Iggy adds much needed defense, another playmaker and increase their overall assist rates. It would also depend on how Hollins would use him.

The bigger move would need to be moving Lopez which may not happen yet due to his injury. A clever idea for later in the year is potentially making a move with Denver sending he along with Jack for McGee and Gallo.

In the end, the team still improves drastically post deal and at the very least challenges Toronto for the division

They aren't changing direction after clearly being on it for so long.
Iggy isn't a top notch FA, nor will their expiring contracts land one as they won't have high end assets to attach to them as their earliest movable pick is still 2020 and their young assets are limited.

Iggy would certainly help on D but I'm not sure his play-making is needed with D.Will, Jack, JJ, AK etc. on the roster. They are doing a flex offense and for example last night had 26 assists on 35 FG despite shooting 40%FG/30%3FG and 25 TOs. The passing is there.

The wings are also pretty full.. JJ, AK, Bogdanovic, Karasev, Jack, Anderson and M.Brown.
Priority needs to be PF.

Another thing to remember about 2016 Eitanr...

2016 is the big year when the cap is expected to jump.
So don't be surprised to see:
2015 FAs opt into their player options if they have one
or
2015 FAs sign deals with opt outs so they can be a FA again in 2016.
or
2016 FAs opt out of their contracts (Dwight for example)

Dwight
Durant
LBJ
Love
LMA
Noah
Hibbert
Conley
Batum
Horford
Jefferson
Ellis
Parsons
M.Gasol
Asik
R.Anderson
Dragic
Derozen
Gallinari
Millsap
Rondo
Gay

Among the UNrestricted FAs who could fall into one of those categories.
You don't jeopardize one of those players for Iguodala.

[jayjaysee]

While I think Lopez is above average defensively and can have an impact in the paint, he's still not the defender Bogut is who is one of the best. Lee is pretty bad so having a top notch defensive guy like Bogut is imperative. Not sure Brooks major offensive advantage makes that up, especially to a team with plenty of scoring from Curry, Thompson and Lee.

Well, I don't see GSW having any real interest in swapping Lee/Lopez in any different form honestly, so their offensive talent isn't really an issue. The idea of trading Lee would either be a major upgrade at the four or to clear cap space for next year to commit to Klay/Green

I was just speaking of the idea, while Lee+Lopez wouldn't be good defensively, it wouldn't be so bad it isn't worth the offensive advantage IMO.. Whether it be a KG for Lee swap or a Bogut for Lopez swap.. Whichever team ends up with Lee/Lopez would have the best offensive front court in the league and an acceptable defense. And both teams would have solid back up defensive players (Green/Ezeli-eh and Plumlee/AK)

GSW are too close to contending to take the risk of Lopez' health, even though Bogut's health is far from a sure thing. And swapping Lee/Lopez makes no sense for them as they don't want to pay the tax and it's a bad distribution of talent.. Kind of betting on one of Lopez/Bogut to get hurt.. Doesn't seem like a realistic idea at all.

[eitanr]

A few points:

1. I'm prob higher on Iggy than most. Of the list you showed the only guys id wait 2 yrs for (to clarify not rather have more - meaning if there was a really legit chance that said player was coming and also accounting for 2 yrs not having Iggy) are (in no order) Howard, M. Gasol, LMA, Love, Noah, LBJ Durant. Of this list the only player who the nets likely have decent odds to net is Howard.

The hope would be if Howard verbally commits then the nets can likely orchestrate a deal to unload bad contract w/2020 pick.

In fact the team could likely afford d will, Howard and iggy.

I just hate these cap savings for big splash plans. The caps will start changing like crazy after 2016. If the team can make a clear move to improve and put themselves in position to contend for division and potentially contend for east (yes - but barring a Lopez trade to add more beef up front) you make the move!

Ak47 can swing to the 4 opening up a crazy offensive attack with improved D. While the nets may not need more playmaking I still think they can use it. Iggy has historically been one of the more underrated wings over the last 8 years. If the below doesn't salvate you as a nets fan, check your pulse:

PF AK47/ Mirza
SF Iggy/ Bognovic
C Lopez/ Plumlee
SG Johnson/ Anderson
PG D. Will/ Jack

Ideally the nets would look for a partner to move Lopez and Jack. I still like the nuggets here for a package around McGee, assets, picks

[californiadude]

I don't look at this deal as two separate ones.

I think GSW wants to finally let Barnes/Green do their thing and can use the versatility that AK47 brings and the post presence that Lopez brings.
/
Question for GSW fans, would they be more apt to doing a AK47+Expiring deals for Iggy trade? In theory a AK47+KG trade for Iggy could work.

\

Personally I'd do that trade. Iggy for AK47 + Garnett. Garnett is useful Bogut and Ezeli health insurance. GS is loaded on the wing with Barnes, Green, Rush, Klay, Livingston who can all play SF so they don't need Iggy that badly. Draymond Green can fill Iggy's role sufficiently and AK47 can backup both 3/4. It works and Warriors clears some cap space for 2016 sweepstake.

From the FO's standpoint though, If GS trades Iggy, it will have to be after this season at least. They see he led the league in RAPM most of last season. Last year, they had the best starting 5 in the NBA statistically. They probably want to give it another look and also to see how Barnes/Green progress.

But again, if it came down to my decision, I'd pull the trigger.

I've skimmed over the last few paiges so I don't know if this has been addressed but...Both this and the original trades are awful for golden state no way in hell i do them. Bogut fits our team as well as anyone and he's on a terrific deal to boot. KG is past his prime and doesn't tip the needle for us for an alldefense iggy is just not worth it. Only way I consider this is if barnes starts playing like a 7th overall pick should and we need to make room for him. Even then I'd ask for a protected first from brooklyn.

[californiadude]

I think they are good trade partners if GSW think Green is the starting PF going forward and resign him.. a deal based around KG for Lee just seems to make a lot of sense, as it has for the last year and a half. Add AK in there and the Warriors defense gets even better somehow. But I think GSW would need MT in a trade of Lee, not AK.. And I agree the Nets wouldn't have him available in a deal just for Lee. Though I don't even think AK would be available given the family ties.

I know Brooklyn kind of wants to get under the tax to be able to do sign and trades next summer, but adding Lee would up the ceiling for next year, ya? If healthy Lopez/Lee/Joe/Deron with Plumlee/MT/Bogs/Jack.. Looks legit enough to spend 160 million on no? :/

I'd do Lee for KG & AK47. That would be pretty fair imo. Maybe you guys throw in a spare #2 pick since we don't have any. You'd guys have the best white frontcourt in the NBA.

I'd like to get bogdonivich back but I might consider that.

[californiadude]

Just a question say the warriors and nets did a lee-lopez swap of some sort. Could lopez play PF next to bogut??? The warriors have green so they could start him against the blake griffins of the world but would a time share work at that spot.

[RoyalMajesty]

Wow.

1) So, the Warriors trade a injury-prone center in Andrew Bogut who's the defensive anchor of the Golden State Warriors, one of the toughest guys around, and a guy that gets bashed on often for not staying healthy especially from me for a even more injury-prone center in Brook Lopez who's no where near Andrew Bogut's level on defense? Not happening.

2) Then the Warriors also trade Andre Iguodala who I constantly bashed on about his shooting especially at the FT line, his limitation on offense, his do as much work as possible just to get by, whatever attitude demeanor on offense, and that overpaid contract for Jarrett Jack who I really enjoyed having here with the Warriors even though it was a short period of time and many Warriors fans truly missed Jarrett Jack, but the Warriors already have Shaun Livingston as the backup PG/SG and SF-Andrei Kirilenko who's constantly injured? No thanks. I would love to trade Andre Iguodala though, but not for Jarrett Jack and Andrei Kirilenko.

[RoyalMajesty]

Just a question say the warriors and nets did a lee-lopez swap of some sort. Could lopez play PF next to bogut??? The warriors have green so they could start him against the blake griffins of the world but would a time share work at that spot.

Brook Lopez is a center. He can't even play 10 minutes at PF and already has problems with his right foot or left foot. I just can't remember which foot it is. I always say that the best ability is availability and Brook Lopez is constantly injured.

[californiadude]

Wow.

1) So, the Warriors trade a injury-prone center in Andrew Bogut who's the defensive anchor of the Golden State Warriors, one of the toughest guys around, and a guy that gets bashed on often for not staying healthy especially from me for a even more injury-prone center in Brook Lopez who's no where near Andrew Bogut's level on defense? Not happening.

2) Then the Warriors also trade Andre Iguodala who I constantly bashed on about his shooting especially at the FT line, his limitation on offense, his do as much work as possible just to get by, whatever attitude demeanor on offense, and that overpaid contract for Jarrett Jack who I really enjoyed having here with the Warriors even though it was a short period of time and many Warriors fans truly missed Jarrett Jack, but the Warriors already have Shaun Livingston as the backup PG/SG and SF-Andrei Kirilenko who's constantly injured? No thanks. I would love to trade Andre Iguodala though, but not for Jarrett Jack and Andrei Kirilenko.

Ok finally a sane poster. Question in regards to iggy. What would you think of a iggy+ ezeli for jimmy butler and Taj gibson swap?? Bulls are one of the teams that makes the most sense for iggy and they're loaded with potential trade options. Would love to get mirotic if I could. I don't know if bulls would agree to that although personally I like iggy on that team. I agree that iggy can be overrated but at the same time you look at how much the warriors outscored they're opponents when he is on the floor and I start to think differently.

[californiadude]

Just a question say the warriors and nets did a lee-lopez swap of some sort. Could lopez play PF next to bogut??? The warriors have green so they could start him against the blake griffins of the world but would a time share work at that spot.

Brook Lopez is a center. He can't even play 10 minutes at PF and already has problems with his right foot or left foot. I just can't remember which foot it is. I always say that the best ability is availability and Brook Lopez is constantly injured.

K just curious. Lopez has been injured so much that I really haven't gotten a feel for him as a player.

[eitanr]

To recap, I think we modified this as a KG for Iggy swap. If we wanted to include Lee in here and if GSW fans felt it needed to be a bit more fair, then the expanded version is Lee+Iggy for KG+Lopez.

I think the key for the Nets is landing Iggy first and foremost, given the lost of Pierce and the needed for at least more of a defensive culture.

[Darren_Errman]

GS isn't gonna give away top-3 RAPM leader Iggy for stop gap KG or injured Lopez. GS is trying to win a title now.

Only way they trade Iggy is if a long term 4 comes back to prepare for life post-Lee. Someone like Amir Johnson, Paul Milsap, Taj Gibson, among those lines.

[californiadude]

GS isn't gonna give away top-3 RAPM leader Iggy for stop gap KG or injured Lopez. GS is trying to win a title now.

Only way they trade Iggy is if a long term 4 comes back to prepare for life post-Lee. Someone like Amir Johnson, Paul Milsap, Taj Gibson, among those lines.

This... Again no way I'd trade Iggy for KG unless I was trying to dump long term salary. Not trying to be one of those dudes who comes in bashing a trade without seriously considering it... Just to me Iggy is only worth trading for a long term starting forward. Not a stop gap that solution in KG. Honestly at this point I'm not sure if KG is even an
upgrade over david lee.

[old rem]

In general....GSW will not seek to deal for guys who are older, more $, more injury prone. While a bit more offense is good..GSW won't part with major parts of the D to get it. With new coaches... likely GSW is not planning a significant deal.....YET. By the end of December... I'd assume they evaluate what's working.

Some think Lee is "on the block" but I doubt it. GSW needs his 9-11 rebounds and his 18-20 pt. You can't have 3 pt shooting be the whole offense. GSW wants to see what Barnes can be. GSW wants Iggy a bit more productive on offense. GSW wants to see Dray Green keep improving and find out how well Livingston, Rush,Speights, Ezeli, Rush, etc can do as bench. With Durant hurt.....Spurs a year older... there's a handful of West teams fighting over the top 4 seeds