Green, Smart, & Sullinger for Adams, Perkins, Lamb

[bondom34]

Depends on how much OKC likes Smart, and whether they actually see one of Ibaka or Sullinger playing center.

They'd need to find a taker for Jackson too.

Oh C'mon...OKC jumps all over this. Ibaka can play C. Sully is a good PF, Smart >> Lamb. I'd wonder why Boston bites.

Because Adams ceiling is much higher than any big they give up and Smart hasn't played a game yet. Easy no for OKC.

See below.

Defense, pick and roll, basically anything OKC needs from a big.

[bondom34]

Because Adams ceiling is much higher than any big they give up and Smart hasn't played a game yet. Easy no for OKC.

Sullinger ceiling is lower than Adams? Can you please elaborate why you think so? Outside of running and blocking shots i can't think of a single thing Adams is better than Sullinger.

See above post....I quoted myself by accident!

[bondom34]

Also to RPM, it bases numbers with a prior, and significantly weights rooks negatively.

[Drax]

Defense, pick and roll, basically anything OKC needs from a big.

That are valid points and thats why Adams should stay excatly where he is. But that doesn't mean he has an overall higher ceililng than Sullinger.

Also to RPM, it bases numbers with a prior, and significantly weights rooks negatively.

Do they use a factor to decrease the minutes? Or how do they weight them negatively?

[bondom34]

Defense, pick and roll, basically anything OKC needs from a big.

That are valid points and thats why Adams should stay excatly where he is. But that doesn't mean he has an overall higher ceililng than Sullinger.

The fact that he's improved as rapidly as he has and had literally zero expectation to be in the league for years after he's been drafted to me puts him with a higher ceiling. He was raw out of college, is bigger and more athletic than Sullinger, and fits the need of a defensive big. I think Sullinger will likely be more polished offensively and Adams better defensively.

[cl2117]

I think Boston has to pass on this. Adams is a great young prospect and has moved a lot faster than most expected, but I still don't know if I see him as having as high a ceiling as others apparently do. I like him a lot better than Sullinger because of fit since Sully is a rotund PF who can play respectable center minutes, whereas Adams is a legit C that fits a more traditional mold. That being said I think the gap between those two is not nearly as wide as the gap between Smart and Lamb in terms of potential, which kills it for me right there and then on top of that they sacrifice a serviceable starter in Green for Perk.

If Rondo was sticking around long term and I knew that now, I'd be more inclined to listen, but with the Celtics poised to nab another solid lottery selection in a draft class with great size I think I'd rather hold onto Smart and Sullinger and look to get the big man of the future in the 2015 draft.

[djthesonicsfan]

Boston offers Green, Smart, & Sullinger for Adams, Perkins, Lamb

Our reply is a firm no. Several reasons...

First and foremost Adams isn't going anywhere. Kid is doing great. It's easy to see why lots of teams will be asking for him, but unless it's some crazy offer we aren't giving him up.

Second, Smart could be good, but we've already got PG (Westbrook) & combo guard (Jackson) covered big time.

Third, there's no need for Green at his salary. Especially next season. That money's likely going to Jackson. And we're not in any panic to cover for KD for a couple of months. I'm actually of the opinion that KD being out will help (force?) Brooks get more minutes to PJ3 and Lamb. Which is in the best interest of the team long term.

Fourth, I believe Lamb will outperform expectations this season. For him it's all about consistent minutes and confidence. Maybe I turn out to be wrong on this, but at this point I'm not willing to give up on Lamb.

[Golabki]

Value-wise I think...
Smart > Adams
Sully > Lamb
Green > Perk

So from that perspective it's a no from Boston.

On fit it seems crazy for OKC - you trade away both your centers, add smart who plays the same position as your best bench player and bring back green who never worked well with durrant.


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[sonictecture]

Value-wise I think...
Smart > Adams
Sully > Lamb
Green > Perk

So from that perspective it's a no from Boston.

On fit it seems crazy for OKC - you trade away both your centers, add smart who plays the same position as your best bench player and bring back green who never worked well with durrant.


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On what basis to value Smart over Adams?

[Curmudgeon]

The Celtics value Sullinger just as much, if not more, than OKC values Adams.

[MoneyTalks41890]

The Celtics value Sullinger just as much, if not more, than OKC values Adams.

Well that makes this is silly premise since OKC does not value Sullinger that way, especially with Ibaka, Collison and McGary at the 4.

[Curmudgeon]

The Celtics value Sullinger just as much, if not more, than OKC values Adams.

Well that makes this is silly premise since OKC does not value Sullinger that way, especially with Ibaka, Collison and McGary at the 4.

Agreed. And to add to the silliness, any trade that has Perkins returning to Boston is a silly premise.

[cl2117]

The Celtics value Sullinger just as much, if not more, than OKC values Adams.

I don't think this is true at all. Sullinger is definitely valued on the Celtics, but I don't think anyone is pinning the kind of expectations on him as OKC fans are on Adams.

It seems as if OKC fans value Adams greater than Smart (fit is obviously a big factor as well in their determination, but, and correct me if I'm wrong OKC fans, they seem to think in terms of ceiling Adams has a higher one than Smart). And I think Smart is much more valuable to the Celtics than Sullinger despite not actually having played yet and this is all coming form a big Sully fan. So by transitive law, Adams is valued more than Sullinger.

[Curmudgeon]

Sullinger is shooting over 50% from beyond the arc this preseason. He stretches the floor. This is something that Adams can't do. Neither can Ibaka or Collison. Plus, Sullinger rebounds. He will be near the top of the league in rebounds per 36.

OKC has Durant and Westbrook launching from beyond the arc. They don't need a stretch 4. The Celtics do.

There is no way the Celtics send Sullinger to OKC unless Ibaka is coming back, and I doubt very much if OKC is willing to part with Obaka, whose rim protection is critical to their success.

Again, I agree with MoneyTalks that both teams say no to this deal.

[cl2117]

Sullinger is shooting over 50% from beyond the arc this preseason. He stretches the floor. This is something that Adams can't do. Neither can Ibaka or Collison. Plus, Sullinger rebounds. He will be near the top of the league in rebounds per 36.

OKC has Durant and Westbrook launching from beyond the arc. They don't need a stretch 4. The Celtics do.

There is no way the Celtics send Sullinger to OKC unless Ibaka is coming back, and I doubt very much if OKC is willing to part with Obaka, whose rim protection is critical to their success.

Again, I agree with MoneyTalks that both teams say no to this deal.

Sully also shot .269 from three last year when Stevens encouraged him to try and stretch out his jumper. I think he has a long long way to go before you can legitimately describe him as a stretch 4. Olynyk is a stretch 4, Sullinger is a traditional PF who is trying to add the three ball to his repertoire, there's a big difference. I'm not saying he can't develop a three point shot, I'm very pleased with his 50% during the preseason, but that is too small a sample size to be making statements off of.

I understand why OKC fans would say no, I think it's especially easy to look at deals like this from an outsider's perspective and think that it's a good idea despite how much it would shake up an already successful team. That being said I think they'd be adding far too much talent to turn this down. Between Ibaka and Sullinger they'll have enough at the center spot for it not to be an achilles heal (although admittedly losing Perk and Adams and only substituting Sully is a downgrade). It'd be great if they could get Fav thrown in for much needed depth as well. Green fills in for Durant to start the year and then can play key reserve minutes and I could see him playing SF, PF and even some SG thanks to his athleticism. And then with Smart you're getting the #6 pick in the most recent draft, but also a guy who is ready to play elite defense immediately. They don't even have to keep Smart he is a seriously valuable trade chip. He could be used down the line to beef up the team as needed.

I think it's a great value deal for OKC. Again I get why they wouldn't be interested though.

[sonictecture]

Sullinger is shooting over 50% from beyond the arc this preseason. He stretches the floor. This is something that Adams can't do. Neither can Ibaka or Collison. Plus, Sullinger rebounds. He will be near the top of the league in rebounds per 36.

OKC has Durant and Westbrook launching from beyond the arc. They don't need a stretch 4. The Celtics do.

There is no way the Celtics send Sullinger to OKC unless Ibaka is coming back, and I doubt very much if OKC is willing to part with Obaka, whose rim protection is critical to their success.

Again, I agree with MoneyTalks that both teams say no to this deal.

Classic Curmudgeon.

OKC says no because it's been nearly impossible to find the proper center solution and the belief is Adams is the most talented player in the scenario. It doesn't matter if Boston is giving up more middling talent in the scenario, because those guys are available every day of the week.

[Curmudgeon]

Sully also shot .269 from three last year when Stevens encouraged him to try and stretch out his jumper. I think he has a long long way to go before you can legitimately describe him as a stretch 4.

He played most of last year with a dislocated finger on his shooting hand, plus he was coming off back surgery. This year he's 100% healthy.

Sullinger is also a great passer, another thing Adams isn't.

I like Adams, but to think that the Celtics would trade two of their best young players for him is ridiculous.

[sonictecture]

Sully also shot .269 from three last year when Stevens encouraged him to try and stretch out his jumper. I think he has a long long way to go before you can legitimately describe him as a stretch 4.

He played most of last year with a dislocated finger on his shooting hand, plus he was coming off back surgery. This year he's 100% healthy.

Sullinger is also a great passer, another thing Adams isn't.

I like Adams, but to think that the Celtics would trade two of their best young players for him is ridiculous.

When you're two best young players aren't that good, should this stipulation be so important.

Adams is a good passer.

[cl2117]

Sully also shot .269 from three last year when Stevens encouraged him to try and stretch out his jumper. I think he has a long long way to go before you can legitimately describe him as a stretch 4.

He played most of last year with a dislocated finger on his shooting hand, plus he was coming off back surgery. This year he's 100% healthy.

Sullinger is also a great passer, another thing Adams isn't.

I like Adams, but to think that the Celtics would trade two of their best young players for him is ridiculous.

When you're two best young players aren't that good, should this stipulation be so important.

Adams is a good passer.

To say they're not good is ridiculous. Sullinger is at the very least on par with Adams in terms of what he gives you, with the main differences being that Adams is a C and that I'd say a lot of people have Adams as having a higher ceiling. And Smart was the #6 pick, shows truly elite defensive skills and hasn't even played an NBA game yet so it's really hard to tell what he is yet, but the potential is there. To say they're not good is ridiculous, especially if you're going to be conducting the Adams hype train.

[sonictecture]

He played most of last year with a dislocated finger on his shooting hand, plus he was coming off back surgery. This year he's 100% healthy.

Sullinger is also a great passer, another thing Adams isn't.

I like Adams, but to think that the Celtics would trade two of their best young players for him is ridiculous.

When you're two best young players aren't that good, should this stipulation be so important.

Adams is a good passer.

To say they're not good is ridiculous. Sullinger is at the very least on par with Adams in terms of what he gives you, with the main differences being that Adams is a C and that I'd say a lot of people have Adams as having a higher ceiling. And Smart was the #6 pick, shows truly elite defensive skills and hasn't even played an NBA game yet so it's really hard to tell what he is yet, but the potential is there. To say they're not good is ridiculous, especially if you're going to be conducting the Adams hype train.

Sullinger isn't good enough that other teams are interested in trading younger higher potential players for him. He''s a borderline starter on a good team and even then you have to surround him with the right players because of his deficiencies. That is not stating that he isn't good, he's just not good enough.

Adams is good enough. That's the simple difference in the scenario.