Denver/N.O./Bucks

[jbk1234]

I'm missing a piece to get this deal done and would be interested in suggestions.

N.O. out: Eric Gordon
N.O. in: Mayo and Wilson Chandler

Denver out: Wilson Chanlder
Denver in: Bucks player

Bucks in: Eric Gordon
Bucks out: Mayo and additional player

Why for N.O. Mayo as a sixth man is preferable to Mayo as a starter, they turn Gordon's contract into a SF and a smaller bad contract at the 2.

Why for Denver: Depends on the player incentive. If the player is Henson, then they cut salary and get a young big who has shown some potential on a $2 million contract. If the player is Illyasova then the Bucks probably need to add value in terms of a pick and I'm not sure that is something they should do. Although I do think that Illy spacing the floor for Denver as a back up or in small ball line up could be interesting.

Why for the Bucks: Improve their back court which really is the weak link on this team right now. Eric Gordon has been injured but they'd be buying low and if he turned it around, it could be a steal for them. They'd be dumping Mayo, which given their comment board would break many hearts, for certain. If they could dump Illy and Mayo while improving their back court, might that be worth a future protected 1st? Henson has potential but he's still really thin and he's not going to get much PT with Sanders coming back and Parker at the 4. I could see them as an eighth seed in the East after this trade.

Is this trade doable or fundamentally flawed?

[MoneyTalks41890]

I would think Knight, Dudley, and/or Illy + maybe filler would be the options. Not sure if that would make it work or not though. Don't hate the premise.

[jbk1234]

I would think Knight, Dudley, and/or Illy + maybe filler would be the options. Not sure if that would make it work or not though. Don't hate the premise.

I can't see Denver shipping out Chandler for that and I think Knight/Bledsoe as a back court could work in the short term for the Bucks.

[jayjaysee]

The issue is, Wilson Chandler is positive value - not as much as some Denver fans think.. But he is positive value.

And for Milwaukee - paying Gordon the extra 7-8 million a year over Mayo, might be all the value they are willing to add.. Definitely not Henson or a first or Eran. Ersan is 30-40 healthy games away from being considered the 3rd best stretch four in the league like he was two years ago.. For a team with no desire of making the playoffs, it makes sense to wait to see if Ersan can be that. As for Henson - he's worth a lot more than any other player in the deal. And unless "protected pick" means top 20 protection (for 5 years ala Dallas' pick to OKC) then that is a no as well.

NOP might be willing to add some small asset, but not a first like Denver would hope.

[nomansland]

"Cutting salary" is a bad reason to dump Chandler, he's already on a pretty good deal.

Haven't watched Ilyasova in a while but I used to think he'd be a good fit on the Nuggets. However I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense for Denver to trade Chandler for either him or Henson.

[jbk1234]

The issue is, Wilson Chandler is positive value - not as much as some Denver fans think.. But he is positive value.

And for Milwaukee - paying Gordon the extra 7-8 million a year over Mayo, might be all the value they are willing to add.. Definitely not Henson or a first or Eran. Ersan is 30-40 healthy games away from being considered the 3rd best stretch four in the league like he was two years ago.. For a team with no desire of making the playoffs, it makes sense to wait to see if Ersan can be that. As for Henson - he's worth a lot more than any other player in the deal. And unless "protected pick" means top 20 protection (for 5 years ala Dallas' pick to OKC) then that is a no as well.

NOP might be willing to add some small asset, but not a first like Denver would hope.

I think Ersan's time in Milwaukee is at an end. He's had a lousy preseason and he looks like a player that desperately needs a change of scenery. As to the 30-40 healthy games to rehabilitate his value, every minute they give to him comes at the expense of Henson/Parker. Is he going to get those 30-40 games, and with his contract, what happens if he doesn't play well? As far as Henson, he had many opportunities to shine last year after Sanders went down and he underwhelmed. I wouldn't give up on him but I don't know that he's worth more than a healthy Eric Gordon.

[skywalker33]

Ersan wouldn't work for Denver, he's an increase on salary, plays PF where we just signed Faried while having Hickson and Arthur as backups on guaranteed contracts this year. We already while having Lauvergne waiting in Euro as our future stretch 4, so no thanks. Wouldn't mind Henson but he is coming up on FA and who know what he'll command as a salary, but I could see in the $5M range we'd still be saving money, so he'd be my choice.

[jbk1234]

Ersan wouldn't work for Denver, he's an increase on salary, plays PF where we just signed Faried while having Hickson and Arthur as backups on guaranteed contracts this year. We already while having Lauvergne waiting in Euro as our future stretch 4, so no thanks. Wouldn't mind Henson but he is coming up on FA and who know what he'll command as a salary, but I could see in the $5M range we'd still be saving money, so he'd be my choice.

Just curious - if Hickson went to the Bucks and Ersan came over to Denver, is that more appealing?

[jayjaysee]

I think Ersan's time in Milwaukee is at an end. He's had a lousy preseason and he looks like a player that desperately needs a change of scenery. As to the 30-40 healthy games to rehabilitate his value, every minute they give to him comes at the expense of Henson/Parker. Is he going to get those 30-40 games, and with his contract, what happens if he doesn't play well? As far as Henson, he had many opportunities to shine last year after Sanders went down and he underwhelmed. I wouldn't give up on him but I don't know that he's worth more than a healthy Eric Gordon.

I'm not a Bucks fan.. But I couldn't disagree with you more.

How did Henson underwhelm? Did you expect him to be an allstar? He improved at pretty much everything.. His shot and range, his defense...etc.. He went from being a bench player to starter and outproduced himself on both sides of the floor.

The hate towards Henson has never made sense to me. And please enlighten me on what a healthy Gordon is..

To me a healthy Gordon is a top 3-4 SG in the league, thus you are right, Henson is no where near the right value.. But last year's version of a healthy Gordon.. Is an above average off-ball shooter with decent defense. If he no longer can drive into the paint and take hits/draw fouls.. Then he is just a slightly above average player on a 15+ million dollar two year deal.

As far as Ersan - like I said.. 30-40 games of healthy basketball - whether it be 18 MPG or 30 MPG.. He will be a positive value asset. If he gets showcased like he was two years ago - he'll be third stretch 4 behind Love/Anderson (or fourth behind Bosh?).. But Love/Bosh obviously don't count in this tier.

-- If he doesn't play well? Then he won't play. And Milwaukee can look at bad value deals like this at that point. Parker doesn't need 36 minutes per game at the four. Sanders playing 30 at center, Henson playing 18 at center and 8-10 at PF, Parker playing 18 at PF and 12-14 at SF.. Leaves plenty of minutes at the four.

But they shouldn't dump him until they see that he actually never recovered from his injury. Which seems pretty unlikely.

[jbk1234]

I think Ersan's time in Milwaukee is at an end. He's had a lousy preseason and he looks like a player that desperately needs a change of scenery. As to the 30-40 healthy games to rehabilitate his value, every minute they give to him comes at the expense of Henson/Parker. Is he going to get those 30-40 games, and with his contract, what happens if he doesn't play well? As far as Henson, he had many opportunities to shine last year after Sanders went down and he underwhelmed. I wouldn't give up on him but I don't know that he's worth more than a healthy Eric Gordon.

I'm not a Bucks fan.. But I couldn't disagree with you more.

How did Henson underwhelm? Did you expect him to be an allstar? He improved at pretty much everything.. His shot and range, his defense...etc.. He went from being a bench player to starter and outproduced himself on both sides of the floor.

The hate towards Henson has never made sense to me. And please enlighten me on what a healthy Gordon is..

To me a healthy Gordon is a top 3-4 SG in the league, thus you are right, Henson is no where near the right value.. But last year's version of a healthy Gordon.. Is an above average off-ball shooter with decent defense. If he no longer can drive into the paint and take hits/draw fouls.. Then he is just a slightly above average player on a 15+ million dollar two year deal.

As far as Ersan - like I said.. 30-40 games of healthy basketball - whether it be 18 MPG or 30 MPG.. He will be a positive value asset. If he gets showcased like he was two years ago - he'll be third stretch 4 behind Love/Anderson (or fourth behind Bosh?).. But Love/Bosh obviously don't count in this tier.

-- If he doesn't play well? Then he won't play. And Milwaukee can look at bad value deals like this at that point. Parker doesn't need 36 minutes per game at the four. Sanders playing 30 at center, Henson playing 18 at center and 8-10 at PF, Parker playing 18 at PF and 12-14 at SF.. Leaves plenty of minutes at the four.

But they shouldn't dump him until they see that he actually never recovered from his injury. Which seems pretty unlikely.

I'll let Bucks fans respond to this. Personally, I think trading Mayo and Ersan into E. Gordon, or even E. Gordon and JJ Hickson is a win- win for the Bucks. In the OP, I noted that they'd probably be reluctant to part with Henson. But I really do think the Bucks can compete for a playoff spot if they improve that back court. It's the worst in the league.

[machu46]

I think Ersan's time in Milwaukee is at an end. He's had a lousy preseason and he looks like a player that desperately needs a change of scenery. As to the 30-40 healthy games to rehabilitate his value, every minute they give to him comes at the expense of Henson/Parker. Is he going to get those 30-40 games, and with his contract, what happens if he doesn't play well? As far as Henson, he had many opportunities to shine last year after Sanders went down and he underwhelmed. I wouldn't give up on him but I don't know that he's worth more than a healthy Eric Gordon.

I'm not a Bucks fan.. But I couldn't disagree with you more.

How did Henson underwhelm? Did you expect him to be an allstar? He improved at pretty much everything.. His shot and range, his defense...etc.. He went from being a bench player to starter and outproduced himself on both sides of the floor.

The hate towards Henson has never made sense to me. And please enlighten me on what a healthy Gordon is..

To me a healthy Gordon is a top 3-4 SG in the league, thus you are right, Henson is no where near the right value.. But last year's version of a healthy Gordon.. Is an above average off-ball shooter with decent defense. If he no longer can drive into the paint and take hits/draw fouls.. Then he is just a slightly above average player on a 15+ million dollar two year deal.

As far as Ersan - like I said.. 30-40 games of healthy basketball - whether it be 18 MPG or 30 MPG.. He will be a positive value asset. If he gets showcased like he was two years ago - he'll be third stretch 4 behind Love/Anderson (or fourth behind Bosh?).. But Love/Bosh obviously don't count in this tier.

-- If he doesn't play well? Then he won't play. And Milwaukee can look at bad value deals like this at that point. Parker doesn't need 36 minutes per game at the four. Sanders playing 30 at center, Henson playing 18 at center and 8-10 at PF, Parker playing 18 at PF and 12-14 at SF.. Leaves plenty of minutes at the four.

But they shouldn't dump him until they see that he actually never recovered from his injury. Which seems pretty unlikely.

I'll let Bucks fans respond to this. Personally, I think trading Mayo and Ersan into E. Gordon, or even E. Gordon and JJ Hickson is a win- win for the Bucks. In the OP, I noted that they'd probably be reluctant to part with Henson. But I really do think the Bucks can compete for a playoff spot if they improve that back court. It's the worst in the league.

I can't speak for all Bucks fans, but I don't imagine many would have interest in taking back both Hickson and Gordon. Most are vehemently against Gordon. Personally, I'd be fine with taking a shot on him if we're giving up other contracts like OJ and Ersan, but I'm in the minority on that.

But yeah, there's no way people here would get on board with taking back both Gordon and Hickson.

[MoneyTalks41890]

So if we start with OJ, Ersan, and Henson for EJ, Withey where do we need to go from there?

[Baddy Chuck]

So if we start with OJ, Ersan, and Henson for EJ, Withey where do we need to go from there?

Back to the drawing board.

[jayjaysee]

So if we start with OJ, Ersan, and Henson for EJ, Withey where do we need to go from there?

Taking out Withey, Ersan, and Henson.. Adding Dudley and moving on with life.

Dudley, Mayo for Gordon. For the win. Milwaukee can also agree to a Marshall for any player on the Pelicans if they want him to be their primary back up point guard.. Jimmer shouldn't see the court really. D Christmas? Sure.

No matter how bad Dudley was last year.. Tell me he is not a huge improvement over John Salmons, Luke Babbitt, Darius Miller... Yeah... Huge upgrade and Mayo fills the third guard role.. He won't be happy about it, but he's no longer the high-upside-have-to-please player he was 4 years ago... Now the Pels will play Reke/Holiday a bit heavier and Mayo/Marshall can work as the 2nd unit.

And for Milwaukee.. Who cares about Dudley. Really, they should be giving his minutes to Parker/Giannis/Middleton/Inglis, and most likely they will be doing that.. Means they are only adding 2-3 million a year to salary to go from Mayo to Gordon..

[JayMKE]

Bucks don't want Gordon, he gets paid almost double what Mayo makes and isn't much of an upgrade at a time we don't need one anyways. He might only be 25 but he's been in the league 6 years and is an OLD 25 with a lot of injury concerns. Eric Gordon from 2014 onwards isn't the same guy he was a couple years ago, it just is what it is. We're not going to resign him, he serves no purpose on this team the next 2 years and would have to have a significant asset attached to him for us to be interested and we're not throwing anything in. There is no upside for us. Easy pass.

[mattg]

I think Ersan's time in Milwaukee is at an end. He's had a lousy preseason and he looks like a player that desperately needs a change of scenery. As to the 30-40 healthy games to rehabilitate his value, every minute they give to him comes at the expense of Henson/Parker. Is he going to get those 30-40 games, and with his contract, what happens if he doesn't play well? As far as Henson, he had many opportunities to shine last year after Sanders went down and he underwhelmed. I wouldn't give up on him but I don't know that he's worth more than a healthy Eric Gordon.

I'm not a Bucks fan.. But I couldn't disagree with you more.

How did Henson underwhelm? Did you expect him to be an allstar? He improved at pretty much everything.. His shot and range, his defense...etc.. He went from being a bench player to starter and outproduced himself on both sides of the floor.

The hate towards Henson has never made sense to me. And please enlighten me on what a healthy Gordon is..

To me a healthy Gordon is a top 3-4 SG in the league, thus you are right, Henson is no where near the right value.. But last year's version of a healthy Gordon.. Is an above average off-ball shooter with decent defense. If he no longer can drive into the paint and take hits/draw fouls.. Then he is just a slightly above average player on a 15+ million dollar two year deal.

As far as Ersan - like I said.. 30-40 games of healthy basketball - whether it be 18 MPG or 30 MPG.. He will be a positive value asset. If he gets showcased like he was two years ago - he'll be third stretch 4 behind Love/Anderson (or fourth behind Bosh?).. But Love/Bosh obviously don't count in this tier.

-- If he doesn't play well? Then he won't play. And Milwaukee can look at bad value deals like this at that point. Parker doesn't need 36 minutes per game at the four. Sanders playing 30 at center, Henson playing 18 at center and 8-10 at PF, Parker playing 18 at PF and 12-14 at SF.. Leaves plenty of minutes at the four.

But they shouldn't dump him until they see that he actually never recovered from his injury. Which seems pretty unlikely.

I'll let Bucks fans respond to this. Personally, I think trading Mayo and Ersan into E. Gordon, or even E. Gordon and JJ Hickson is a win- win for the Bucks. In the OP, I noted that they'd probably be reluctant to part with Henson. But I really do think the Bucks can compete for a playoff spot if they improve that back court. It's the worst in the league.

Just no. Healthy Eric Gordon doesn't exist anymore, it's far more likely ersan returns to form than it is Gordon becomes the player he was on the clippers. As for hickson, no interest in that guy. He's negative value and should never play on a good team.

And that's coming from someone who at this point thinks next to nothing of ersan and mayo, they're bench role players, it's just the Gordon hickson package is atrocious.

[skywalker33]

What I love about all these trades that include the Nuggets is the only thought is what Denver can do to help be a conductor using the above average pieces on our roster to help accommodate other teams. Rarely do these ever give any thought to why Denver would do this or what Denver needs to get out of it, usually it is just "let's use Denver as the doormat and see what we can do for the other teams in the trade"

[jbk1234]

What I love about all these trades that include the Nuggets is the only thought is what Denver can do to help be a conductor using the above average pieces on our roster to help accommodate other teams. Rarely do these ever give any thought to why Denver would do this or what Denver needs to get out of it, usually it is just "let's use Denver as the doormat and see what we can do for the other teams in the trade"

I laid out options of Henson, Ersan and a pick, or Ersan in with Hickson going out. I think all of those would be of value to Denver.