Bulls/Suns/Magic - Taj to Phoenix

N.O.R.E. · Post #1 » by **N.O.R.E.** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:00 am

Bulls Trade: Taj, Dunleavy, Tony Snell, protected 1st (or Kings pick)
Receive: Tobias Harris, Gerald Green, Nicholson

Noah/Gasol/Nazr
Gasol/Mirotic/Nicholson
Tobias/McDermott
Jimmy/Gerald Green
Rose/Hinrich/Brooks

The Bulls land two players who could improve their offense to the point where it's not Rose or nothing. Losing such a Bulls guy in Taj hurts, but you've got to give to get.

Suns Trade: Len, Gerald Green, 2 2nd rounders
Receive: Taj, protected 1st from Bulls (either own or Sac pick?)

Plumlee/Taj/Tolliver
Taj/Morris Twins
Tucker/Warren
Bledsoe/Dragic/Goodwin
Dragic/IT/Ennis

The Suns get the perfect fit in Taj, who would be a fantastic addition both for the court, and the young locker room. They add another 1st which could perhaps be used in conjunction with that nice Lakers 1st coming their way, in a separate consolidation deal. This move helps them on the court a lot this year, without harming their ability to further improve the team going forward.

Magic Trade: Tobias Harris, Nicholson
Receive: Alex Len, Tony Snell, M. Dunleavy (EC), a couple of Phoenix 2nd rounders

Vucevic/Len/O'Quinn
A.Gordon/Frye/O'Quinn
Mo Harkless/Snell/Dunleavy??
Oladipo/BG/Fournier
Payton/Ridnour/Oladipo

With Tobias coming up for an extension, the Magic trade now to avoid locking themselves into a mediocre core. They land Len, while opening up PT for Aaron Gordon. Snell gives them another low risk prospect who could be very good defensively, and if he find confidence on offense/3pt shot would be a great fit with Payton/Oladipo.

asudevil · Post #2 » by **asudevil** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:52 am

I think it can be simplified a bit to accommodate team needs. Dunleavy/Green dont really need to be included, and Orlando really doesnt have much use for Dunleavy. And the suns have plenty of youth....they need no more firsts.

Bulls trade:
Gibson/Kings First
Bulls get:
Harris/Nicholson

Suns trade:
Len/Lakers 2nd/Minny First
Suns get:
Gibson

Magic trade:
Harris/Nicholson
Magic get:
Len/Kings First/Lakers 2nd/Minny First

N.O.R.E. · Post #3 » by **N.O.R.E.** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:24 am

Originally I had the 1st going to the Magic, but thought I'd get shouted down by Suns fans being unwilling to give up Len for Taj.

I don't mind your deal, I do feel the Magic landing two 1st rounders (in addition to Len) is a bit rich.
Admittedly I don't know anything about Nicholson really, he was included to give the Bulls some depth at PF...

NashtyNas · Post #4 » by **NashtyNas** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:02 am

I like the first trade, but I wouldn't touch the 2nd version with a 10 foot pole.

Len for Gibson is more than enough.
No need to include Green or 1sts.

You keep your late first, we will keep Green.

jjohns828 · Post #5 » by **jjohns828** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:52 am

Personally, not a fan of Len or Snell at all so I wouldn't do it as a Magic fan.

Buckfan76 · Post #6 » by **Buckfan76** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:34 am

I'd cut the Magic out and do something like:

Gibson/Snell for Ennis, G. Green, and Len.

Bulls might have to throw in a draft pick. But the trade for the Bulls end gives them wing depth, and Len can back up Noah, and Ennis would take over A. Brooks spot.

tiderulz · Post #7 » by **tiderulz** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:47 am

jjohns828 wrote:Personally, not a fan of Len or Snell at all so I wouldn't do it as a Magic fan.

yeah, big no from Orlando.

JDLAW · Post #8 » by **JDLAW** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:52 pm

N.O.R.E. wrote:Bulls Trade: Taj, Dunleavy, Tony Snell, protected 1st (or Kings pick)
Receive: Tobias Harris, Gerald Green, Nicholson

Noah/Gasol/Nazr
Gasol/Mirotic/Nicholson
Tobias/McDermott
Jimmy/Gerald Green
Rose/Hinrich/Brooks

The Bulls land two players who could improve their offense to the point where it's not Rose or nothing. Losing such a Bulls guy in Taj hurts, but you've got to give to get.

Suns Trade: Len, Gerald Green, 2 2nd rounders
Receive: Taj, protected 1st from Bulls (either own or Sac pick?)

Plumlee/Taj/Tolliver
Taj/Morris Twins
Tucker/Warren
Bledsoe/Dragic/Goodwin
Dragic/IT/Ennis

The Suns get the perfect fit in Taj, who would be a fantastic addition both for the court, and the young locker room. They add another 1st which could perhaps be used in conjunction with that nice Lakers 1st coming their way, in a separate consolidation deal. This move helps them on the court a lot this year, without harming their ability to further improve the team going forward.

Magic Trade: Tobias Harris, Nicholson
Receive: Alex Len, Tony Snell, M. Dunleavy (EC), a couple of Phoenix 2nd rounders

Vucevic/Len/O'Quinn
A.Gordon/Frye/O'Quinn
Mo Harkless/Snell/Dunleavy??
Oladipo/BG/Fournier
Payton/Ridnour/Oladipo

With Tobias coming up for an extension, the Magic trade now to avoid locking themselves into a mediocre core. They land Len, while opening up PT for Aaron Gordon. Snell gives them another low risk prospect who could be very good defensively, and if he find confidence on offense/3pt shot would be a great fit with Payton/Oladipo.

No interest from the Suns. They are not trading giving up age, size, and potential (Len) for a player (Gibson) who essentially duplicates Markieff Morris.

ATF · Post #9 » by **ATF** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:10 pm

It's not bad value for Phoenix but I have to agree with JDLAW. We're getting smaller and older. Gibson is a terrific defender but has his limits in the post (Nowitzki, Aldridge, Howard, Gasol). And that protected pick doesn't really sway the Suns when we have rookies from the last 2 drafts fighting for playing time.

Golabki · Post #10 » by **Golabki** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:29 pm

The Bulls aren't going to trade Gibson for scraps.

Gibson was one of the best 3 players on a playoff team last year

JDLAW · Post #11 » by **JDLAW** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:39 pm

Golabki wrote:The Bulls aren't going to trade Gibson for scraps.

Gibson was one of the best 3 players on a playoff team last year

I would not call Green and Harris "scraps", but I agree with your general point - these are players that are not needed by the Bulls. It is not a good trade for the Bulls or the Suns.

Jaseface · Post #12 » by **Jaseface** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:42 pm

Golabki wrote:The Bulls aren't going to trade Gibson for scraps.

Gibson was one of the best 3 players on a playoff team last year

Harris isn't a "scrap" player by any means.
And Gibson doesn't hold the value that he did last year with the addition of Gasol and Mirotic. He is still very valuable, but you could easily argue that he won't be "one of the three best players on a playoff team" this season.

Golabki · Post #13 » by **Golabki** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:47 pm

JDLAW wrote:
Golabki wrote:The Bulls aren't going to trade Gibson for scraps.

Gibson was one of the best 3 players on a playoff team last year

I would not call Green and Harris "scraps", but I agree with your general point - these are players that are not needed by the Bulls. It is not a good trade for the Bulls or the Suns.

Green is pretty much a definition of scrap. He's kicked around the league a ton, even played outside the nba for a little while. I get that he had a pretty good year last year, but Pheonix was apparently so impressed that they signed 2 new guards to push him from 3rd guard (a non-starting, but major rotation role) to 5th guard (a DNP coach's decision role).

Harris is still a semi-interesting project, but he's a combo-forward that can't shoot and isn't a particularly strong defender. He's still young, but on a non-tanking team he wouldn't be playing more than 10 minutes a game and we wouldn't have to pretend he's key piece on Orlando. He's worth more than nothing, but I'm not sure he's particularly better than Tony Snell.

JDLAW · Post #14 » by **JDLAW** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:52 pm

Golabki wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
Golabki wrote:The Bulls aren't going to trade Gibson for scraps.

Gibson was one of the best 3 players on a playoff team last year

I would not call Green and Harris "scraps", but I agree with your general point - these are players that are not needed by the Bulls. It is not a good trade for the Bulls or the Suns.

Green is pretty much a definition of scrap. He's kicked around the league a ton, even played outside the nba for a little while. I get that he had a pretty good year last year, but Pheonix was apparently so impressed that they signed 2 new guards to push him from 3rd guard (a non-starting, but major rotation role) to 5th guard (a DNP coach's decision role).

Harris is still a semi-interesting project, but he's a combo-forward that can't shoot and isn't a particularly strong defender. He's still young, but on a non-tanking team he wouldn't be playing more than 10 minutes a game and we wouldn't have to pretend he's key piece on Orlando. He's worth more than nothing, but I'm not sure he's particularly better than Tony Snell.

Your characterization os where Green is in the rotation is way off. He is not in a 5th guard in the rotation and DNPCD role. He will be a significant rotation player at both the 2 and the 3 position with about 22mpg.

Jaseface · Post #15 » by **Jaseface** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:01 pm

Golabki wrote:Green is pretty much a definition of scrap. He's kicked around the league a ton, even played outside the nba for a little while. I get that he had a pretty good year last year, but Pheonix was apparently so impressed that they signed 2 new guards to push him from 3rd guard (a non-starting, but major rotation role) to 5th guard (a DNP coach's decision role).

I respect your opinion.
Though I hardly think of Green as "scrap." Last year was his coming-out year. He played in all 82 games for the first time in his career, he averaged a career-high 15.8 ppg, and hit 2.5 3pts per game. If his last year was like the rest of his career, in Boston, Houston, Dallas, New Jersey, etc., then I would agree with you. But he found his niche. And for as many teams as he has been on, you could point to Chauncey Billups (BOS, DET, DEN, TOR, MIN, NY, LAC...). Was he not "kicked around the league?" Would you consider Billups "scrap" for that reason?

Golabki · Post #16 » by **Golabki** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:10 pm

Jaseface wrote:
Golabki wrote:Green is pretty much a definition of scrap. He's kicked around the league a ton, even played outside the nba for a little while. I get that he had a pretty good year last year, but Pheonix was apparently so impressed that they signed 2 new guards to push him from 3rd guard (a non-starting, but major rotation role) to 5th guard (a DNP coach's decision role).

I respect your opinion.
Though I hardly think of Green as "scrap." Last year was his coming-out year. He played in all 82 games for the first time in his career, he averaged a career-high 15.8 ppg, and hit 2.5 3pts per game. If his last year was like the rest of his career, in Boston, Houston, Dallas, New Jersey, etc., then I would agree with you. But he found his niche. And for as many teams as he has been on, you could point to Chauncey Billups (BOS, DET, DEN, TOR, MIN, NY, LAC...). Was he not "kicked around the league?" Would you consider Billups "scrap" for that reason?

This is exactly what people said after his good year with the Nets. Then Indy overpaid him and decided to dump him despite not have a viable 3rd wing on the roster.

I'm not saying Green doesn't deserve to be in the NBA, and there are decent teams out there that he could help (NOP comes to mind), but the dude isn't anything more than a decent rotation SG... about the most replaceable thing in the NBA.