Ainge and Moray

[Golabki]

Last year when the Rockets were trying to deal Asik the Celtics came in late with an offer. The offer seemed strange because the Celtics were pretty clearly tanking and it also seemed unusually public.

Earlier this year a similar thing seemed to happen with Rondo. The Celtics were clearly shopping him and not getting much interest. All of a sudden the Rockets were interested in Rondo, which seemed odd to me. I mean if you thought Lin struggled to transition to an off-ball catch and shoot player next to Harden... Rondo is going to struggle in that role a LOT more.

Given Ainge/Moray's prior relationship I think these were examples of intentionally leaked stories designed to help a friendly organization drum up trade value by putting a "competitive" offer out there.

Anyone else agree with this or am I slowly going insane?

[MoneyTalks41890]

It wouldn't surprise me. They are friends and they know the value of starting an artificial bidding war.

[Jaseface]

Comparing Rondo and Lin is comparing a bagel and a muffin. Similar, but not at all the same.

If HOU ended up trading for Rondo, I think it would force Harden to handle the ball less. Morey and McHale are well aware that Rondo is not a shooter. He is a terrible shooter. But he is an exceptional floor leader, and they wouldn't trade for him if they weren't looking to utilize his strengths. Harden would likely reluctantly accept a lesser role with the ball in his hands so long as Rondo got him his shots. Lin has a fraction of the point guard skills and talent that Rajon has.

That's my .02.

[pacers33granger]

Probably is true, at least to a point.

Wouldn't put it past that slimy Moray.

[theatlfan]

At the time of Asik's December "deadline", I remember that was more than a handful that posed the same thought - that Ainge was helping Moray by placing what amounts to a fake bid. It made sense then and it makes sense that Ainge is getting his pay back now. I think Ainge is getting slightly desperate with Rondo since they were whispers that he was overrated pre-ACL injury, so forth when he was so-so after coming back and now the hand injury that seems to be more "don't tell us what really happened" than the bathroom incident being a believable story. If he (can at least act like he) has an offer in hand, then he can play up Rondo's successes more than a traing partner can rehash his failures.

It could be that they consistentky just so happen to like players that the other has no use for any more, but it definitely seems fishy given the history.

[LarsV8]

I think you are reading too much into this. GM's don't play the guessing game like fans do, because they are constantly on the phones with these guys. They know what is legit, and what isn't.

Houston was legitimately interested in Rondo, and Boston was legitimately interested in Asik, because both are great players.

Lin was never a bad fit. He was a good fit as on off the bench scorer. His big problem was low BBIQ and just not being very good. Harden and Rondo would fit fine. Perhaps not perfect, but talent trumps all.

[cl2117]

I'm sure things like this happen and I think these both could be potential examples, but at the same time I don't think either of those rumors came entirely out of left field.

The Celtics really need a starting center to build around going forward and although they were tanking, Asik was an incredibly cheap option given what he would actually produce for you. So although it would hurt the tank to some extent, that negative is mitigated by the fact that Ainge may have felt he had locked up his center of the future who would play extremely well next to his other major target Kevin Love. I didn't think that offer was fishy at all, although the fact that it was so publicly known may have been orchestrated.

As for the Rockets and Rondo, no he doesn't fit their scheme as well as other PGs do, which in the case of Rondo is fairly common since he is a pass first PG and not exactly the norm in the league right now, but he too was arguably available for a significant discount to what he should actually be worth given his talent. The Rockets needed an upgrade at the point and he was the best and most available guy on the market and probably the only real star they could have gotten (especially given the pieces they have available to trade with).

I don't think you're wearing a tin foil hat, but I think you may be reading too much into those rumors. They made enough sense that I'd say it's more likely that they were legit than they were a case of GMs scratching each other's backs.

[Texas Chuck]

Like any business ever, but especially such a small industry, relationships matter. I know the Mavericks have really good relationships with certain organizations and of course they do each other favors. The Wizards are a team Dallas has long had good relationships with so for example when Washington wanted to sign Blair, Dallas helped make it a S&T so that the Wizards could save their exception for Pierce.

I don't see any problem with gamesmanship like this. Smart teams are still going to know the price they are willing to pay.

[zapatasblood]

If they are going/trying to get rondo I am sure they he will control the offense andHarden will play more off the ball. No reason in getting someone like Rondo and use him the right way

[Scoot McGroot]

I think you are reading too much into this. GM's don't play the guessing game like fans do, because they are constantly on the phones with these guys. They know what is legit, and what isn't.

This, and it's rare that a guy starts out as a GM without long experience as an assistant or the such, and they are going to value their players to a certain point, and aren't going to jump an offer magically just because there's a rumor that someone else has offered. They'll offer up to their max, no matter what, and if it's more, they'll walk.

[Golabki]

I think you are reading too much into this. GM's don't play the guessing game like fans do, because they are constantly on the phones with these guys. They know what is legit, and what isn't.

Houston was legitimately interested in Rondo, and Boston was legitimately interested in Asik, because both are great players.

Lin was never a bad fit. He was a good fit as on off the bench scorer. His big problem was low BBIQ and just not being very good. Harden and Rondo would fit fine. Perhaps not perfect, but talent trumps all.

First, GMs get a HUGE percentage of their competitive intelligence from the media, just like fans. I've heard that multiple times from levels of organizations. While its surprising at first, think about how much you'd have to spend to have 1% of investigative power of ESPN? And ESPN isn't even on the only group doing this.

I agree that Lin wasn't actually a bad fit. But the first 6 months of Lin in Houston was dominated by stories about how Lin couldn't play off ball. Rondo would actually be a bad fit.

[LarsV8]

First, GMs get a HUGE percentage of their competitive intelligence from the media, just like fans. I've heard that multiple times from levels of organizations. While its surprising at first, think about how much you'd have to spend to have 1% of investigative power of ESPN? And ESPN isn't even on the only group doing this.

I am sorry, but you are incorrect. If any organization is using information from the media, then they are incompetent. GM's don't need to guess about who is offering what, they are deeply involved in these talks long before they hit the media. With the rapid turnover in managements, there are networks of former co-workers all over the league, which are more direct and reliable.

ESPN is not a news organization, it is a machine designed to get hits. They are so comically wrong about just about everything, it is embarrassing.

I agree that Lin wasn't actually a bad fit. But the first 6 months of Lin in Houston was dominated by stories about how Lin couldn't play off ball. Rondo would actually be a bad fit.

Lin can't play very well off the ball, because he is a bit of a one trick pony, but he was fine off the bench when Harden wasn't on the court.

The problem was it did not make sense for Harden to defer to Lin because there was nothing Lin could do, that Harden could not do better. He is also poor defensively, so it didn't make alot of sense to put him alongside Harden, but again, off the bench he was a fine fit.

With Rondo, yes he is not an ideal fit, but he would still be an attractive piece to add to Houston, as he fills a pretty need as secondary ball handler.

[Golabki]

First, GMs get a HUGE percentage of their competitive intelligence from the media, just like fans. I've heard that multiple times from levels of organizations. While its surprising at first, think about how much you'd have to spend to have 1% of investigative power of ESPN? And ESPN isn't even on the only group doing this.

I am sorry, but you are incorrect. If any organization is using information from the media, then they are incompetent. GM's don't need to guess about who is offering what, they are deeply involved in these talks long before they hit the media. With the rapid turnover in managements, there are networks of former co-workers all over the league, which are more direct and reliable.

ESPN is not a news organization, it is a machine designed to get hits. They are so comically wrong about just about everything, it is embarrassing.

Well look. You can believe whatever you want because I'm not going to spend and hours culling links to articles about this... but I have a pretty high-degree of confidence on this point.

[165bows]

Well Ainge did end up having to part with three solid second rounders to get Houston to sign and trade Courtney Lee. They may help each other out and I'm sure stuff like this happens, but I'm sure they are more than happy to take advantage when given the opportunity as well.

[LarsV8]

Because I'm not going to spend and hours culling links to articles about this... but I have a pretty high-degree of confidence on this point.

So you started a discussion topic about something you didn't want to discuss?

[Golabki]

Because I'm not going to spend and hours culling links to articles about this... but I have a pretty high-degree of confidence on this point.

So you started a discussion topic about something you didn't want to discuss?

Happy to discuss it. I'm just being up front and telling you I'm not going to write a research report with references to prove it to you.