Min/Cha Trade

[HartfordWhalers]

Just getting Vonleh for Kmart and Thad would be a ridiculous value steal.

Edit: Where Minnesota is the one stealing value.

[stinger14]

This is a big big no from the Hornets. Vonleh and Bismack should be a big part of our future going forward. Though I like KMart, and Thad is okay, I wouldn't want neither or even both of them at the expense of either Vonleh or Bismack

I think it is a tough goal to want to make the playoffs now, and at the same time hold onto projects and pieces for the future.

I wasn't in favor of it for MIN when they tried it last summer, because it feels like the path to mediocrity to me.

That said, Vonieh and a NON-lotto first (the goal is to make the playoffs in the East, right?) seems like a pretty good haul. I could understand though if CHA doesn't want to pay this price if it was just going to lead to a first round exit.

Bismack is still growing, but is no longer just a project. Hornets fans know the deal that most other fans don't know, and that is Biz is our best option at center right now. The team plays much better with him than big Al and he looks like he belongs às the starting center going forward. We can afford to wait a couple years on Vonleh. Hornets have a good young nucleus in Kemba, MKG, Zeller, Vonleh Bismack, and PJ Hairston. These guys are all gonna get better over the next few years, and making the playoffs just adds valuable experience while building a culture for winning. Making trades like proposed here doesn't take the Hornets any further than the current roster can go with a healthy Kemba. No need to sacrifice the future for a couple wins, but no further potential for to be serious contenders this year

[Narf]

Poster 1: I want to get this project with a world of potential in a trade.
Poster 2: There is no way team X will trade that player for this.
Poster 1: Ignore that the reason I built a trade around acquiring someone for my team is because that player has a world of potential. He's not an immediate contributor so he's a worthless throw-in.

Such a tired response. Zach LaVine and his 9.72 PER is a LONG term project. Wolves should trade him to the Sixers for Henry Sims.

1) Yes. LaVine is in fact a LONG term project. Flip took a very raw SG and made him the starting PG, basically the hardest transition anyone makes in the NBA. Kid has crazy tools but needs to learn how to use them, that'll take at least 2 years. He's also a fantastic tank commander. But that's point 2.

2) Wolves are not fighting for a playoff spot, they're tanking and rebuilding. If they were fighting for a playoff spot, LaVine and a non-lotto first for a couple of good win-now rotation players while dumping the one cancer on the team is basically about right.

Wolves aren't playing for jack though. They're "developing talent". Wanna win now and dump cray cray at the same time? Give me someone worthwhile for my trouble. Vonleh/LaVine are the right caliber player, I want someone with real potential back if I'm the Wolves GM.

I totally understand if that price is too high though. And maybe cray cray has positive value still to a few teams, who knows. It's just a matter of valuation.

Personally I value high potential/high bust picks higher then I probably should. So I get where you're coming from. Hopefully now you get where he's coming from.

Seriously man, this is ridiculous. I'd say Hawes last year and Thad right now have roughly equivalent value. Last year Hawes fetched 2 2nds in return. I just don't know what to tell you if you think Kevin Martin is enough to bump that return to a lottery pick from last year and a 1st that is at worst 16th.

So you have no interest in even acknowledging the repeated "negative value going out" comments?

I think Thad will have more value then Hawes in a couple weeks now that he's playing well again. His value dropped because his play was terrible because his mom died. Thad is about the 20th-25th best PF in the league and a 2 way player who's also solid at SF. He's worth a little more then Hawes IMHO.

[BullyKing]

1) Yes. LaVine is in fact a LONG term project. Flip took a very raw SG and made him the starting PG, basically the hardest transition anyone makes in the NBA. Kid has crazy tools but needs to learn how to use them, that'll take at least 2 years. He's also a fantastic tank commander. But that's point 2.

2) Wolves are not fighting for a playoff spot, they're tanking and rebuilding. If they were fighting for a playoff spot, LaVine and a non-lotto first for a couple of good win-now rotation players while dumping the one cancer on the team is basically about right.

Wolves aren't playing for jack though. They're "developing talent". Wanna win now and dump cray cray at the same time? Give me someone worthwhile for my trouble. Vonleh/LaVine are the right caliber player, I want someone with real potential back if I'm the Wolves GM.

I totally understand if that price is too high though. And maybe cray cray has positive value still to a few teams, who knows. It's just a matter of valuation.

Personally I value high potential/high bust picks higher then I probably should. So I get where you're coming from. Hopefully now you get where he's coming from.

Seriously man, this is ridiculous. I'd say Hawes last year and Thad right now have roughly equivalent value. Last year Hawes fetched 2 2nds in return. I just don't know what to tell you if you think Kevin Martin is enough to bump that return to a lottery pick from last year and a 1st that is at worst 16th.

So you have no interest in even acknowledging the repeated "negative value going out" comments?

I think Thad will have more value then Hawes in a couple weeks now that he's playing well again. His value dropped because his play was terrible because his mom died. Thad is about the 20th-25th best PF in the league and a 2 way player who's also solid at SF. He's worth a little more then Hawes IMHO.

No, because that part of the trade is irrelevant since the Nets would never trade KG's expiring contract to take on Lance and Williams. So if this trade was actually a reality, there would need to be compensation (likely some of what you have going to Minny) that goes to Brooklyn instead.

Even if Thad is a marginally better player than Hawes, his PO negates any of that.

[MNRunLeft]

Just getting Vonleh for Kmart and Thad would be a ridiculous value steal.

Edit: Where Minnesota is the one stealing value.

I agree it would be great value for the Wolves, maybe even too much value but when you look at the Hornets roster there really aren't many other pieces that are going to appeal to a rebuilding team. If the Hornets are looking to win now then Vonleh seems like to most expendable piece that appeals to a rebuilding team.

[rugbyrugger23]

Poster 1: I want to get this project with a world of potential in a trade.
Poster 2: There is no way team X will trade that player for this.
Poster 1: Ignore that the reason I built a trade around acquiring someone for my team is because that player has a world of potential. He's not an immediate contributor so he's a worthless throw-in.

Such a tired response. Zach LaVine and his 9.72 PER is a LONG term project. Wolves should trade him to the Sixers for Henry Sims.

1) Yes. LaVine is in fact a LONG term project. Flip took a very raw SG and made him the starting PG, basically the hardest transition anyone makes in the NBA. Kid has crazy tools but needs to learn how to use them, that'll take at least 2 years. He's also a fantastic tank commander. But that's point 2.

2) Wolves are not fighting for a playoff spot, they're tanking and rebuilding. If they were fighting for a playoff spot, LaVine and a non-lotto first for a couple of good win-now rotation players while dumping the one cancer on the team is basically about right.

Wolves aren't playing for jack though. They're "developing talent". Wanna win now and dump cray cray at the same time? Give me someone worthwhile for my trouble. Vonleh/LaVine are the right caliber player, I want someone with real potential back if I'm the Wolves GM.

I totally understand if that price is too high though. And maybe cray cray has positive value still to a few teams, who knows. It's just a matter of valuation.

Personally I value high potential/high bust picks higher then I probably should. So I get where you're coming from. Hopefully now you get where he's coming from.

Seriously man, this is ridiculous. I'd say Hawes last year and Thad right now have roughly equivalent value. Last year Hawes fetched 2 2nds in return. I just don't know what to tell you if you think Kevin Martin is enough to bump that return to a lottery pick from last year and a 1st that is at worst 16th.

Hawes and Thad are apples to oranges scenarios when trying to gauge trade value. Mozgov fetched 2 1sts. That is a closer gauge. Proves a playoff team winning now places a premium on incoming piece they feel will equal playoff wins. And that is the only reason MJ makes such a trade, feels Thad and KMart are such missing pieces.

Dumping a contract like Lance is typically a mid to late 1st in value. Dumping a second contract in Marvin equals something too.

Vonleh + mid to late 1st + dumping Lance and Marvin contracts + getting Thad + KMart is more than fair value for a team chasing playoffs trading with a team collecting youth and assets.

[HartfordWhalers]

1) Yes. LaVine is in fact a LONG term project. Flip took a very raw SG and made him the starting PG, basically the hardest transition anyone makes in the NBA. Kid has crazy tools but needs to learn how to use them, that'll take at least 2 years. He's also a fantastic tank commander. But that's point 2.

2) Wolves are not fighting for a playoff spot, they're tanking and rebuilding. If they were fighting for a playoff spot, LaVine and a non-lotto first for a couple of good win-now rotation players while dumping the one cancer on the team is basically about right.

Wolves aren't playing for jack though. They're "developing talent". Wanna win now and dump cray cray at the same time? Give me someone worthwhile for my trouble. Vonleh/LaVine are the right caliber player, I want someone with real potential back if I'm the Wolves GM.

I totally understand if that price is too high though. And maybe cray cray has positive value still to a few teams, who knows. It's just a matter of valuation.

Personally I value high potential/high bust picks higher then I probably should. So I get where you're coming from. Hopefully now you get where he's coming from.

Seriously man, this is ridiculous. I'd say Hawes last year and Thad right now have roughly equivalent value. Last year Hawes fetched 2 2nds in return. I just don't know what to tell you if you think Kevin Martin is enough to bump that return to a lottery pick from last year and a 1st that is at worst 16th.

Hawes and Thad are apples to oranges scenarios when trying to gauge trade value. Mozgov fetched 2 1sts. That is a closer gauge. Proves a playoff team winning now places a premium on incoming piece they feel will equal playoff wins. And that is the only reason MJ makes such a trade, feels Thad and KMart are such missing pieces.

Dumping a contract like Lance is typically a mid to late 1st in value. Dumping a second contract in Marvin equals something too.

Vonleh + mid to late 1st + dumping Lance and Marvin contracts + getting Thad + KMart is more than fair value for a team chasing playoffs trading with a team collecting youth and assets.

Thats not really more than fair value at all. I wish you were kidding.

[rugbyrugger23]

Seriously man, this is ridiculous. I'd say Hawes last year and Thad right now have roughly equivalent value. Last year Hawes fetched 2 2nds in return. I just don't know what to tell you if you think Kevin Martin is enough to bump that return to a lottery pick from last year and a 1st that is at worst 16th.

Hawes and Thad are apples to oranges scenarios when trying to gauge trade value. Mozgov fetched 2 1sts. That is a closer gauge. Proves a playoff team winning now places a premium on incoming piece they feel will equal playoff wins. And that is the only reason MJ makes such a trade, feels Thad and KMart are such missing pieces.

Dumping a contract like Lance is typically a mid to late 1st in value. Dumping a second contract in Marvin equals something too.

Vonleh + mid to late 1st + dumping Lance and Marvin contracts + getting Thad + KMart is more than fair value for a team chasing playoffs trading with a team collecting youth and assets.

Thats not really more than fair value at all. I wish you were kidding.

Well I guess that is why these boards exist. You have your opinion and I have mine.