Warriors adjust window, Magic cash in.

Wizenheimer · Post #21 » by **Wizenheimer** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:54 pm

I guess in this case, from the thread title, "adjusting the window" means throwing a chair thru it?

OrlandoNed · Post #22 » by **OrlandoNed** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:57 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Smitty731 wrote:Frye has been playing really well recently. The Magic are finally running a bit more and using Frye in the pick and pop game. Before he was just standing around the line waiting. Green and Barnes are both good players, but the Magic already have depth at those spots with young guys who need to play.

I think both sides would pass on this. It doesn't really work for either of them.

Statistically, Green is already as good a player as Vucevic, if not better. And then its Barnes and a 1st versus your choice of dumping Ben Gordon or Frye? You like Frye better than cap space, then keep him. Not really sure how the caap math would work with getting Bogut also, but he is better than Frye imo, and just stresses the ridiculous value of this package.

It is a bit of a hollow point to argue considering their is no world in which GS offers this, but there is absolutely no way Orlando turns this down imo. Orlando is still horrible and this moves makes them better short term and long term.

It doesn't matter if Green is a good as Vucevic, Orlando would never replace Vucevic for Bogut to create a gigantic 6-8 forward logjam. We don't need 5 6-8 forwards on our team. 24 year old allstar level centers are few and far between, you don't ship them out for dime a dozen forwards and injury prone centers.

Post #23 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:04 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
Smitty731 wrote:Frye has been playing really well recently. The Magic are finally running a bit more and using Frye in the pick and pop game. Before he was just standing around the line waiting. Green and Barnes are both good players, but the Magic already have depth at those spots with young guys who need to play.

I think both sides would pass on this. It doesn't really work for either of them.

Statistically, Green is already as good a player as Vucevic, if not better. And then its Barnes and a 1st versus your choice of dumping Ben Gordon or Frye? You like Frye better than cap space, then keep him. Not really sure how the caap math would work with getting Bogut also, but he is better than Frye imo, and just stresses the ridiculous value of this package.

It is a bit of a hollow point to argue considering their is no world in which GS offers this, but there is absolutely no way Orlando turns this down imo. Orlando is still horrible and this moves makes them better short term and long term.

It doesn't matter if Green is a good as Vucevic, Orlando would never replace Vucevic for Bogut to create a gigantic 6-8 forward logjam. We don't need 5 6-8 forwards on our team. 24 year old allstar level centers are few and far between, you don't ship them out for dime a dozen forwards and injury prone centers.

I guess the disconnect is you are saying one equally good player is dime a dozen, and the other is an all star.

Birdie · Post #24 » by **Birdie** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:08 pm

Coxy wrote:Warriors trade
Draymond Green (S&T)/Harrison Barnes/Andrew Bogut/2015 1st/2016 2nd

Magic trade
Nikola Vucevic/Ben Gordon or Channing Frye (Salary dump)

Warriors.
Simple, core of Steph / Klay / Vucevic. We lose key components in Green, Barnes, Bogut and yet another 1st rnd pick, but gain a long term piece in Vucevic.

Magic
Losing Vuc hurts, but they get a hell of a deal for him. Green and Barnes are excellent long term guys, especially Draymond Green, and Bogut is a defensive anchor that changes cultures.

Steve Kerr would probably scowl and throw in a few f bombs at this suggestion.

OrlandoNed · Post #25 » by **OrlandoNed** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:13 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
Statistically, Green is already as good a player as Vucevic, if not better. And then its Barnes and a 1st versus your choice of dumping Ben Gordon or Frye? You like Frye better than cap space, then keep him. Not really sure how the caap math would work with getting Bogut also, but he is better than Frye imo, and just stresses the ridiculous value of this package.

It is a bit of a hollow point to argue considering their is no world in which GS offers this, but there is absolutely no way Orlando turns this down imo. Orlando is still horrible and this moves makes them better short term and long term.

It doesn't matter if Green is a good as Vucevic, Orlando would never replace Vucevic for Bogut to create a gigantic 6-8 forward logjam. We don't need 5 6-8 forwards on our team. 24 year old allstar level centers are few and far between, you don't ship them out for dime a dozen forwards and injury prone centers.

I guess the disconnect is you are saying one equally good player is dime a dozen, and the other is an all star.

Poor wording on my part. The point I'm trying to make is that near allstar centers are harder to find than near allstar forwards. It is easier to find a player of Green's size and overall skill level than a player of Vucevic's size and skill level.

Birdie · Post #26 » by **Birdie** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:21 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:Poor wording on my part. The point I'm trying to make is that near allstar centers are harder to find than near allstar forwards. It is easier to find a player of Green's size and overall skill level than a player of Vucevic's size and skill level.

I think you're right. Finding a young, beast of a center (Vucevic is a monster! I love his game) are tough to find. Even though we overpaid for Mozgov, affordable/able rim protecting centers don't grow on trees.

As most of the posters in this thread have stated, the original deal proposed was very one sided (at least talent wise) toward ORL. If you centered a package around Vucevic/Harris + other for Green/Barnes/Bogut, that might be more enticing to GSW. I think Tobias would be a good fit in GSW system. But this would also assume, Lee + Iggy are moved for some other pieces seeing as they can't have 7 players on their roster making 10mil+.

tiderulz · Post #27 » by **tiderulz** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:51 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:It doesn't matter if Green is a good as Vucevic, Orlando would never replace Vucevic for Bogut to create a gigantic 6-8 forward logjam. We don't need 5 6-8 forwards on our team. 24 year old allstar level centers are few and far between, you don't ship them out for dime a dozen forwards and injury prone centers.

i'm as big an Orlando fan as out there, but until Vucevic makes an All-star game, lets not call him an All-star level center.

sipclip · Post #28 » by **sipclip** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:00 pm

I don't like this trade for either team. The warriors give up a ton of depth which goes from turning a strength into a weakness. For the magic they are still rebuilding and they give up by far the most valuable asset in the trade. Vuc is one heck of a young center and more importantly he is locked up for 4 more years at a great price.

Coxy · Post #29 » by **Coxy** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:14 pm

Well this caused some heated posts, lol.

j-ragg · Post #30 » by **j-ragg** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:42 pm

Magic says hell yes please.

ChuckDurn · Post #31 » by **ChuckDurn** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:58 pm

Coxy, I just have to ask.....

What the hell came over you to suggest this......?

For the Magic fans who haven't watched Green and Bogut play - your team would make the playoffs in 2015-16 with this deal. Those guys make contributions that go far beyond visible stats such as Vucevic's scoring. You'd definitely be able to flip some of your 6'8" talent to fit what you needed, but there's no doubt in my mind that your starting 4 and 5 next year would be Green and Bogut, and you'd have to fill in pieces around them (i.e. scorers), but would have plenty of talent and assets to do so.

Warriorfan · Post #32 » by **Warriorfan** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:01 pm

Why would the Warriors trade 3 starters off of a team that has the best record.

Bogus is said to be as important to D as curry is to O.

Gomagic44 · Post #33 » by **Gomagic44** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:39 am

Horrid fit, but the value is great. Yes please

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Coxy · Post #34 » by **Coxy** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:29 am

yenrallik11 wrote:
Coxy wrote:Well this caused some heated posts, lol.

well dude, it is just kind of surprising for a warriors fan to make a deal like this. especially when a title run is possible this season. value seems heavily in favor of the magic. and if the value is not agreed upon, it seems obvious this deal really hurts the warriors defense. not understanding your logic sir

As a die hard Warriors fan that has followed the team religiously since Run TMC, I have my opinions on the players involved in the deal. Green, I love, and he is the piece that I hate losing by far the most. I fear he is going to get massively overpaid and what we are seeing right now is his peak, as I don't think he'll improve enough to warrant the big deal he's about to get. Barnes, I don't rate at all. He's OK, and can hit 3's, but he's just a complimentary piece. Bogut, I hate losing but he's injury prone and going downhill. Vucevic is a young monster that could form a beastly big 3 in Curry/Klay/Vuc. We need a long term inside presence that can be relied on to score and rebound a tonne. In the playoffs, if our shooting dries up we need a guy to dump it to for easy buckets.

Curry/Liv/
Klay/Barbosa/Holiday
Iggy/FA/Rush
Speights/Lee
Vucevic/Ezeli

Still plenty of versatilty, but with the added big man factor.

Coxy · Post #35 » by **Coxy** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:34 am

Warriorfan wrote:Why would the Warriors trade 3 starters off of a team that has the best record.

Bogus is said to be as important to D as curry is to O.

This trade would obviuosly be in the off season. I think we'll be found out without a big man scorer in the playoffs, and that Green contract is going to be way too big to warrant.

tiderulz · Post #36 » by **tiderulz** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:10 am

ChuckDurn wrote:Coxy, I just have to ask.....

What the hell came over you to suggest this......?

For the Magic fans who haven't watched Green and Bogut play - your team would make the playoffs in 2015-16 with this deal. Those guys make contributions that go far beyond visible stats such as Vucevic's scoring. You'd definitely be able to flip some of your 6'8" talent to fit what you needed, but there's no doubt in my mind that your starting 4 and 5 next year would be Green and Bogut, and you'd have to fill in pieces around them (i.e. scorers), but would have plenty of talent and assets to do so.

until Bogut goes down. Dude is not an iron man and at 30, he wont get healthier

LightTheBeam · Post #37 » by **LightTheBeam** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:26 am

Great value for Magic but just doesnt make any sense. They have Tobias and Gordon and after this trade they will basically be forced their hand with Tobias and he will leave. So basically add him to the trade for Orlando purposes. Bogut isn't going to want to stay there, I understand the premise but in the long run it feels like Vuc/Tobias for Green and Barnes and I am not so sure I take that and run. Again looking at this in a vacuum this deal is amazing for Orlando but I just don't see it.

Ducklett · Post #38 » by **Ducklett** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:51 pm

I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

The Magic are trading a 20-11 center with a nice outside shot for a 6-8 forward who averages 11-8?

How is this a homerun or anything even close?

Warriorfan · Post #39 » by **Warriorfan** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:23 pm

Ducklett wrote:I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

The Magic are trading a 20-11 center with a nice outside shot for a 6-8 forward who averages 11-8?

How is this a homerun or anything even close?

3 starters from the team with the best record. Bogus is a top 10 C just like Vuc.

Green is DPOY candidate and most improved.

Barnes is a 2 yr starter on Western conf playoff teams.x
Vuc is solid but not in the top 5 centers. Imo behind Gasols Dwight cousins

Golabki · Post #40 » by **Golabki** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:17 am

BadWolf wrote:Also doesn't work for Magic. Vooch is their best player and they get three complimentary pieces. They don't need Bogut yet and Green and Barnes just cluster the SF/PF tweener spot with Harris, Gordon and hark and Marble.
Bad for both teams

But remember, they're getting GOOD complimentary pieces for a TERRIBLE "best player"