Ricky Rubio vs Kyrie Irving Trade Value

[GopherIt!]

I think you are combining separate thoughts. I don't consider him to be a prototypical past first point guard. He is a great team player though and he is critical to Memphis on court success.

[yoyoboy]

I think you are combining separate thoughts. I don't consider him to be a prototypical past first point guard. He is a great team player though and he is critical to Memphis on court success.

Yeah, but still, it's weird because I've seen a ton of writers like Bill Simmons and such always make Conley out to be some amazing facilitator, and I just don't understand it.

[Narf]

I'm sorry but WHAT….

This has nothing to do with who has more overall trade value, but there is absolutely no way Rubio has as good of handles as Kyrie. Seriously, Kyrie keeps the ball on a string while turning it over at a much lower rate than Rubio. It's fine though. They both have their strengths (Rubio's are passing and defense while Kyrie's are handling the ball and scoring).

But if you disagree, just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i79kbsLYiYA

They are both great handlers, the thing is, Kyrie is faster.

And btw i'll take Rubio over Kyrie, but i'm a Wolves fan, so...

Oh, personally I have no problem with you valuing Rubio over Irving. It's why I created this thread. I like Kyrie more, but I can see why people would pick Rubio. I was just specifically referencing their handles.

Watch Rubio highlights

Rubio has more turnovers because he passes more, his assist to turnover ratio last year playing with vets playing was 3.2 to 1. Irving's assist to turnover ratio is 2.2 to 1.

[yoyoboy]

They are both great handlers, the thing is, Kyrie is faster.

And btw i'll take Rubio over Kyrie, but i'm a Wolves fan, so...

Oh, personally I have no problem with you valuing Rubio over Irving. It's why I created this thread. I like Kyrie more, but I can see why people would pick Rubio. I was just specifically referencing their handles.

Watch Rubio highlights

Rubio has more turnovers because he passes more, his assist to turnover ratio last year playing with vets playing was 3.2 to 1. Irving's assist to turnover ratio is 2.2 to 1.

That's because Rubio is a better passer….

I just finished watching a couple vids of Rubio (which wasn't necessary because I've seen him play but let's call it a refreshment of my memory) and I've honestly yet to see anything too impressive about his handles. I'm sorry but Kyrie's are up there with Curry's in a battle for best in the league. To clarify, I'm not saying that makes him a better player. Just think his handles are far and away better than Rubio. I've got the feeling you've never really seen Kyrie dribble the ball.

[ace625214]

The Cavs didn't have Kyrie during some of the games Irving was out and the sample size is MUCH smaller. Plus, that was before the trades were made that transformed the team. Dellavedova, Mike Miller, James Jones, Marion, Joe Harris and Haywood all saw MAJOR playing time when Lebron was out and now everybody but Delly can't even see playing time.

Additionally, EVERY team loses close games and games to good team, so I have no idea why you're discounting some of the Wolves' losses...

Because I'm saying that they are right around .500 even with all of those close losses. A couple breaks and they could have been even better. Martin/Pek/Young/Garnett were missing for multiple of those losses also. The Wolves have been decimated by injuries.

[yoyoboy]

The Cavs didn't have Kyrie during some of the games Irving was out and the sample size is MUCH smaller. Plus, that was before the trades were made that transformed the team. Dellavedova, Mike Miller, James Jones, Marion, Joe Harris and Haywood all saw MAJOR playing time when Lebron was out and now everybody but Delly can't even see playing time.

Additionally, EVERY team loses close games and games to good team, so I have no idea why you're discounting some of the Wolves' losses...

Because I'm saying that they are right around .500 even with all of those close losses. A couple breaks and they could have been even better. Martin/Pek/Young/Garnett were missing for multiple of those losses also. The Wolves have been decimated by injuries.

Still I don't think it can be rightfully said that the Wolves would jump from a .220 winning percentage to .500, injuries or not. They had a better team last year and they weren't .500.

[Domejandro]

Snip

Here is a recent quote of mine...

In fifty four games, Minnesota has managed to have a ridiculous amount of injuries and/or bad luck.

Ricky Rubio: 43 games missed.
Kevin Martin: 35 games missed.
Nikola Pekovic: 31 games missed.
Shabazz Muhammad: 16 games missed (and he played for a month and a half on a sprained ankle by getting daily acupuncture).
Robbie Hummel: 11 games missed.
Mo Williams: 10 games missed.
Thaddeus Young: 5 games missed (death of mother).
Anthony Bennett: 2 games missed.
Zach LaVine: 2 games missed (ankle sprain).
Andrew Wiggins: Left 2 games early because of sickness.

156 games all together if you split Andrew Wiggins two games leaving at half time into one.Not to mention that Adreian Payne had Plantar Fasciitis this season before we traded for him, and Miroslav Radjulica sustained an eight week injury right after we dumped him.In addition, now Shabazz is going to miss the remaining twenty-eight games of the season, Anthony Bennett is going to miss over two weeks from a leg and ankle sprain, and Gary Neal limped out of practice today with God knows what.Being a Minnesota fan is rough, haha.

Since then (six games), Bennett is still out, Shabazz is out, Kevin Martin missed a game with flu like symptoms, Nikola Pekovic left a game after ten minutes and missed a game (Plus he has played on a horrifyingly awful ankle for months now), Kevin Garnett skipped two games for being ancient (which doesn't count, but is still worth noting), and Robbie Hummel's hand is still broken.


This year has been absolutely brutal.

[yoyoboy]

Snip

Here is a recent quote of mine...

In fifty four games, Minnesota has managed to have a ridiculous amount of injuries and/or bad luck.

Ricky Rubio: 43 games missed.
Kevin Martin: 35 games missed.
Nikola Pekovic: 31 games missed.
Shabazz Muhammad: 16 games missed (and he played for a month and a half on a sprained ankle by getting daily acupuncture).
Robbie Hummel: 11 games missed.
Mo Williams: 10 games missed.
Thaddeus Young: 5 games missed (death of mother).
Anthony Bennett: 2 games missed.
Zach LaVine: 2 games missed (ankle sprain).
Andrew Wiggins: Left 2 games early because of sickness.

156 games all together if you split Andrew Wiggins two games leaving at half time into one.Not to mention that Adreian Payne had Plantar Fasciitis this season before we traded for him, and Miroslav Radjulica sustained an eight week injury right after we dumped him.In addition, now Shabazz is going to miss the remaining twenty-eight games of the season, Anthony Bennett is going to miss over two weeks from a leg and ankle sprain, and Gary Neal limped out of practice today with God knows what.Being a Minnesota fan is rough, haha.

Since then (six games), Bennett is still out, Shabazz is out, Kevin Martin missed a game with flu like symptoms, Nikola Pekovic left a game after ten minutes and missed a game (Plus he has played on a horrifyingly awful ankle for months now), Kevin Garnett skipped two games for being ancient (which doesn't count, but is still worth noting), and Robbie Hummel's hand is still broken.


This year has been absolutely brutal.

Fair enough. I already forgot what the original argument was anyways lol and how the path turned this way where we got in a discussion over Minny's record and injuries.

But trust me, being a Cavs fan these past 4 years was very rough, as well (worst record isn't those years combined). If we could get out of that mess and turn things around, then you guys can, too lol.

[mcfly1204]

Having anyone on the floor shooting below 40% from the field is cringe-worthy, and Rubio excels at that. I think it is a lot more likely that Irving becomes a passable defender and distributor than Rubio becoming a respectable shooter.

[Note30]

Snip

Here is a recent quote of mine...

In fifty four games, Minnesota has managed to have a ridiculous amount of injuries and/or bad luck.

Ricky Rubio: 43 games missed.
Kevin Martin: 35 games missed.
Nikola Pekovic: 31 games missed.
Shabazz Muhammad: 16 games missed (and he played for a month and a half on a sprained ankle by getting daily acupuncture).
Robbie Hummel: 11 games missed.
Mo Williams: 10 games missed.
Thaddeus Young: 5 games missed (death of mother).
Anthony Bennett: 2 games missed.
Zach LaVine: 2 games missed (ankle sprain).
Andrew Wiggins: Left 2 games early because of sickness.

156 games all together if you split Andrew Wiggins two games leaving at half time into one.Not to mention that Adreian Payne had Plantar Fasciitis this season before we traded for him, and Miroslav Radjulica sustained an eight week injury right after we dumped him.In addition, now Shabazz is going to miss the remaining twenty-eight games of the season, Anthony Bennett is going to miss over two weeks from a leg and ankle sprain, and Gary Neal limped out of practice today with God knows what.Being a Minnesota fan is rough, haha.

Since then (six games), Bennett is still out, Shabazz is out, Kevin Martin missed a game with flu like symptoms, Nikola Pekovic left a game after ten minutes and missed a game (Plus he has played on a horrifyingly awful ankle for months now), Kevin Garnett skipped two games for being ancient (which doesn't count, but is still worth noting), and Robbie Hummel's hand is still broken.


This year has been absolutely brutal.

Fair enough. I already forgot what the original argument was anyways lol and how the path turned this way where we got in a discussion over Minny's record and injuries.

But trust me, being a Cavs fan these past 4 years was very rough, as well (worst record isn't those years combined). If we could get out of that mess and turn things around, then you guys can, too lol.

Difference between you and us is we don't have a hometown hero like Bron Bron. And even if we did, he can't recruit players like LeBron can.

[rugbyrugger23]

Having anyone on the floor shooting below 40% from the field is cringe-worthy, and Rubio excels at that. I think it is a lot more likely that Irving becomes a passable defender and distributor than Rubio becoming a respectable shooter.

Rubio's passing and defense doesn't come from years of practicing at his craft (although practice and work ethic enhance and heighten those two traits), those above average to superior basketball skill-sets come from natural basketball instinct and DNA pre-wired for the game of basketball.

If someone, not saying Irving, just in general, doesn't have the "Rubio gene" they just don't have it. It can't be taught, practiced into muscle memory, or acquired, only inherently born with it. For any person who watches Rubio, you will see such essence just ooze from his style of play...most specificly in relation to his defense and passing.

Now is that enough to offset the lack of field goal shooting he displays (good free throw shooter)? That is a thread in itself.

But to say Irving, who IMHO does NOT have such DNA or inherent traits has better odds of becoming Rubio like in his passing/defense is wrong and lends itself to a blaring lack of understanding for basketball IQ. No doubt Irving can better those two traits Rubio excels at, but not duplicate or emulate.

Can Rubio do what Kidd did and improve his shooting to be more than respectable? Well a whole fan base in MN is hoping so.

[mcfly1204]

Having anyone on the floor shooting below 40% from the field is cringe-worthy, and Rubio excels at that. I think it is a lot more likely that Irving becomes a passable defender and distributor than Rubio becoming a respectable shooter.

Rubio's passing and defense doesn't come from years of practicing at his craft (although practice and work ethic enhance and heighten those two traits), those above average to superior basketball skill-sets come from natural basketball instinct and DNA pre-wired for the game of basketball.

If someone, not saying Irving, just in general, doesn't have the "Rubio gene" they just don't have it. It can't be taught, practiced into muscle memory, or acquired, only inherently born with it. For any person who watches Rubio, you will see such essence just ooze from his style of play...most specificly in relation to his defense and passing.

Now is that enough to offset the lack of field goal shooting he displays (good free throw shooter)? That is a thread in itself.

But to say Irving, who IMHO does NOT have such DNA or inherent traits has better odds of becoming Rubio like in his passing/defense is wrong and lends itself to a blaring lack of understanding for basketball IQ. No doubt Irving can better those two traits Rubio excels at, but not duplicate or emulate.

Can Rubio do what Kidd did and improve his shooting to be more than respectable? Well a whole fan base in MN is hoping so.

Are you done?

[Domejandro]

Having anyone on the floor shooting below 40% from the field is cringe-worthy, and Rubio excels at that. I think it is a lot more likely that Irving becomes a passable defender and distributor than Rubio becoming a respectable shooter.

Rubio's passing and defense doesn't come from years of practicing at his craft (although practice and work ethic enhance and heighten those two traits), those above average to superior basketball skill-sets come from natural basketball instinct and DNA pre-wired for the game of basketball.

If someone, not saying Irving, just in general, doesn't have the "Rubio gene" they just don't have it. It can't be taught, practiced into muscle memory, or acquired, only inherently born with it. For any person who watches Rubio, you will see such essence just ooze from his style of play...most specificly in relation to his defense and passing.

Now is that enough to offset the lack of field goal shooting he displays (good free throw shooter)? That is a thread in itself.

But to say Irving, who IMHO does NOT have such DNA or inherent traits has better odds of becoming Rubio like in his passing/defense is wrong and lends itself to a blaring lack of understanding for basketball IQ. No doubt Irving can better those two traits Rubio excels at, but not duplicate or emulate.

Can Rubio do what Kidd did and improve his shooting to be more than respectable? Well a whole fan base in MN is hoping so.

Are you done?

What? I am not commenting on the thread's question as I have both Spanish and Minnesota bias, but I thought his points were legitimate and brought some value to the conversation.

[rugbyrugger23]

Having anyone on the floor shooting below 40% from the field is cringe-worthy, and Rubio excels at that. I think it is a lot more likely that Irving becomes a passable defender and distributor than Rubio becoming a respectable shooter.

Rubio's passing and defense doesn't come from years of practicing at his craft (although practice and work ethic enhance and heighten those two traits), those above average to superior basketball skill-sets come from natural basketball instinct and DNA pre-wired for the game of basketball.

If someone, not saying Irving, just in general, doesn't have the "Rubio gene" they just don't have it. It can't be taught, practiced into muscle memory, or acquired, only inherently born with it. For any person who watches Rubio, you will see such essence just ooze from his style of play...most specificly in relation to his defense and passing.

Now is that enough to offset the lack of field goal shooting he displays (good free throw shooter)? That is a thread in itself.

But to say Irving, who IMHO does NOT have such DNA or inherent traits has better odds of becoming Rubio like in his passing/defense is wrong and lends itself to a blaring lack of understanding for basketball IQ. No doubt Irving can better those two traits Rubio excels at, but not duplicate or emulate.

Can Rubio do what Kidd did and improve his shooting to be more than respectable? Well a whole fan base in MN is hoping so.

Are you done?

Actually no. To answer the question...

Evaluating Rubio and Irvine is like evaluating 2 unique (almost to the degree of polar opposites) tech start-up stocks. In the very early stages, barely the quarter pole, one (Irving) is out to the early lead in stock performance. But in one's effort to evaluate continued long term performance within overall portfolio, many variables have to be considered. Variables specific to the individual stock evaluation itself, and probably more important, variables specific to the portfolio as a whole.

It will be interesting to see what happens at half-way mark, and look back on this thread.

As others have stated, in regards to trade value, all in the eye of the beholder. If an organization wanted to trade for a pure PG, they would offer more value/assets for Rubio vs. Irving. If an organization wanted a more modern scoring (SG type) PG, they would offer more value/assets for Irving vs. Rubio.

[Saberestar]

Is that a serious question? Irving has way way more value...It's not close.

[yoyoboy]

Here is a recent quote of mine...



Since then (six games), Bennett is still out, Shabazz is out, Kevin Martin missed a game with flu like symptoms, Nikola Pekovic left a game after ten minutes and missed a game (Plus he has played on a horrifyingly awful ankle for months now), Kevin Garnett skipped two games for being ancient (which doesn't count, but is still worth noting), and Robbie Hummel's hand is still broken.


This year has been absolutely brutal.

Fair enough. I already forgot what the original argument was anyways lol and how the path turned this way where we got in a discussion over Minny's record and injuries.

But trust me, being a Cavs fan these past 4 years was very rough, as well (worst record isn't those years combined). If we could get out of that mess and turn things around, then you guys can, too lol.

Difference between you and us is we don't have a hometown hero like Bron Bron. And even if we did, he can't recruit players like LeBron can.

Yeah, but we didn't have nearly as much young talent you guys had. You guys have Rubio, Wiggins, Shabazz, Lavine, Payne, Dieng, and Bennett (well I think he can still be good), along with a surefire top lottery pick, which you can use to get a guy like Karl Towns (best prospect imo). You just need half those guys to pan out in order to be a dangerous team.

[mcfly1204]

Rubio's passing and defense doesn't come from years of practicing at his craft (although practice and work ethic enhance and heighten those two traits), those above average to superior basketball skill-sets come from natural basketball instinct and DNA pre-wired for the game of basketball.

If someone, not saying Irving, just in general, doesn't have the "Rubio gene" they just don't have it. It can't be taught, practiced into muscle memory, or acquired, only inherently born with it. For any person who watches Rubio, you will see such essence just ooze from his style of play...most specificly in relation to his defense and passing.

Now is that enough to offset the lack of field goal shooting he displays (good free throw shooter)? That is a thread in itself.

But to say Irving, who IMHO does NOT have such DNA or inherent traits has better odds of becoming Rubio like in his passing/defense is wrong and lends itself to a blaring lack of understanding for basketball IQ. No doubt Irving can better those two traits Rubio excels at, but not duplicate or emulate.

Can Rubio do what Kidd did and improve his shooting to be more than respectable? Well a whole fan base in MN is hoping so.

Are you done?

Actually no. To answer the question...

Evaluating Rubio and Irvine is like evaluating 2 unique (almost to the degree of polar opposites) tech start-up stocks. In the very early stages, barely the quarter pole, one (Irving) is out to the early lead in stock performance. But in one's effort to evaluate continued long term performance within overall portfolio, many variables have to be considered. Variables specific to the individual stock evaluation itself, and probably more important, variables specific to the portfolio as a whole.

It will be interesting to see what happens at half-way mark, and look back on this thread.

As others have stated, in regards to trade value, all in the eye of the beholder. If an organization wanted to trade for a pure PG, they would offer more value/assets for Rubio vs. Irving. If an organization wanted a more modern scoring (SG type) PG, they would offer more value/assets for Irving vs. Rubio.

For one, your first response was such an off-based tangent that it was borderline ridiculous. Now you are making this genuinely ridiculous simile to tech startup stocks, and I am not even sure how to respond/if it is worth responding.

[Dupp]

I think you could break down impact vs dollars paid and it's very close but realistically around the league i think every gm would take Kyrie.

[californiadude]

Funny coincidence. I thought last summer that instead of offering Wiggins, the Cavs should offer Kyrie for Love and Rubio straight up. Thought it'd be a more balanced team overall.
Plus the Cavs would still have picks to inject their roster with youth on cheap deals. Something that was really a downfall for the heat.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[mcfly1204]

Keep in mind that Cleveland has most of their 1st round picks. Their 2016 1st is gone, 2015 is a swap, but other than that, so other than 2016, they can still add player to fill specific voids.