Big NY-Den

pipfan · Post #1 » by **pipfan** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:54 pm

I think Denver has to tank next year, and start over. Their pieces of Lawson, Chandler and Farrid are fine, but not near good enough to compete out West, even to try to get to the second round.

I figure PJ and NY must see the writing on the wall-they will not sign Marc or LMA this summer-and they will be weak again. They don't have their pick, and they can't have 3 bad years in a row. They need to sell some tickets, and the East should continue to be the junior conference. I know NY fans would say no way and I understand, but we don't pay the bills, and PJ has to sell some very expensive tickets. He needs a real team out there next year, not Melo, Jose, Bargs and some 19 year old.

Assumption-NY gets pick 3 or 4-Mudiay

Jose and Rights to Mudiay for Lawson, Farrid and Chandler

Denver rebuilds around Galo, Mudiay, that Euro center, Harris and their pick this lottery-let's say a swing man. That Mario Herenzga sounds good, and should be in their range. Jose tutors Mudiay and Hickson is expiring. I think Galo should become a stretch 4 and they should run like crazy. They would have unlimited cap space moving forward and a top 5 pick in 2016, plus extra picks and a great, young core

NY is a playoff team again, and could make the semis or the ECF with a ton of things falling right. Melo, Lawson and Farrid should be exciting in NY. Melo will never lead NY to a title, Phil must know that. And Durant/LBJ are not coming to NY as FA's-so this trade gives them quality players to make the playoffs and still have cap space once the cap jumps. Why develop a 19 kid in NY with Melo aging and fans wanting a real team?

Laimbeer · Post #2 » by **Laimbeer** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:50 am

I'd pass as NYK. Mudiay is a lot cheaper than Lawson and has a world of potential. Faried and Chandler are meh and don't bridge that gap.

youngthegiant · Post #3 » by **youngthegiant** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:22 am

Denver says no.

skywalker33 · Post #4 » by **skywalker33** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:14 am

No, DEN says HELL NO !!!!!

aaronf · Post #5 » by **aaronf** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:36 am

pipfan wrote:I think Denver has to tank next year, and start over. Their pieces of Lawson, Chandler and Farrid are fine, but not near good enough to compete out West, even to try to get to the second round.

I figure PJ and NY must see the writing on the wall-they will not sign Marc or LMA this summer-and they will be weak again. They don't have their pick, and they can't have 3 bad years in a row. They need to sell some tickets, and the East should continue to be the junior conference. I know NY fans would say no way and I understand, but we don't pay the bills, and PJ has to sell some very expensive tickets. He needs a real team out there next year, not Melo, Jose, Bargs and some 19 year old.

Assumption-NY gets pick 3 or 4-Mudiay

Jose and Rights to Mudiay for Lawson, Farrid and Chandler

Denver rebuilds around Galo, Mudiay, that Euro center, Harris and their pick this lottery-let's say a swing man. That Mario Herenzga sounds good, and should be in their range. Jose tutors Mudiay and Hickson is expiring. I think Galo should become a stretch 4 and they should run like crazy. They would have unlimited cap space moving forward and a top 5 pick in 2016, plus extra picks and a great, young core

NY is a playoff team again, and could make the semis or the ECF with a ton of things falling right. Melo, Lawson and Farrid should be exciting in NY. Melo will never lead NY to a title, Phil must know that. And Durant/LBJ are not coming to NY as FA's-so this trade gives them quality players to make the playoffs and still have cap space once the cap jumps. Why develop a 19 kid in NY with Melo aging and fans wanting a real team?

The last team that wants to help the knicks are the denver nuggets as they have the option to trade the picks. No big time FA will sign with a team that has the black hole (melo) on it. Knicks will have to build through the draft and that should take them to the end of melo's career, if they want to hurry the process they should tell melo to stay home and get his money for doing nothing, he'll finally waive his no trade and be traded.

Reign23 · Post #6 » by **Reign23** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:52 pm

the knicks also say NO

pipfan · Post #7 » by **pipfan** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:04 am

just wondering, what is the plan for both teams then?
NY can't be terrible for a 3rd year, I'd think. They need to make the playoffs. Lawson/?/Melo/Farrid/?, with Chandler as 6th man-that lineup could be a second round team. They are going nowhere big with Melo. I think NY would love Lawson and Farrid. Like I said, NY fans don't want it, but you all don't have to justify those high ticket prices.

For Denver, what is their plan? I understand about the pick swap, but NY can sign people-they won't suck again. Denver needs to suck and rebuild around youth. I think they look to 2017 for their assent. Get 2 lottery picks this year and get a top 5 pick in 2016. Or, stay at 35 wins in the West

skywalker33 · Post #8 » by **skywalker33** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:12 am

pipfan wrote:just wondering, what is the plan for both teams then?
NY can't be terrible for a 3rd year, I'd think. They need to make the playoffs. Lawson/?/Melo/Farrid/?, with Chandler as 6th man-that lineup could be a second round team. They are going nowhere big with Melo. I think NY would love Lawson and Farrid. Like I said, NY fans don't want it, but you all don't have to justify those high ticket prices.

For Denver, what is their plan? I understand about the pick swap, but NY can sign people-they won't suck again. Denver needs to suck and rebuild around youth. I think they look to 2017 for their assent. Get 2 lottery picks this year and get a top 5 pick in 2016. Or, stay at 35 wins in the West

While you're playing Carnac, can you give me the next lotto numbers ??? In your NY explanation, you say they need Lawson, Faried and Chandler along with Melo that could get them into the 2nd rd of the playoffs. Yet, in the 2nd paragraph, they can just get FA's and the won't suck...why not just go that route AND get a top 4 pick ????

And now that we don't have Shaw, getting Gallo back healthy, plus Lawson, Chandler, Faried, a more experienced Nurkic and Harris AND a top 8 pick....Denver doesn't "need" to suck. Plus we still have four #1's over the next two years and a ton of cap space in 2016. I can also see DEN getting a good haul of draft pick for the players you have us trading ...this is just a terrible trade, doesn't make sense for either team.

pipfan · Post #9 » by **pipfan** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:58 am

There is a big difference between not sucking and getting into the second round. Let's say NY signs a guy like Rondo and a few bigs. They win 33-40 games with a healthy Melo and miss the playoffs. What does Denver get? With Lawson and Faried, now they win more and are at the Wash/Tor level. That is the difference-HUGE for NY with those ticket prices. PJ is not there forever-he needs to win some games.

As for Denver, what is Denver's ceiling in the West? I cannot see anyway that core makes it out of the first round, and probably does not make the playoffs. They need to tank out-just my opinion. Lawson as your best player is getting you nowhere good. The West is too tough, and Utah and Minny have great young cores-Denver should take a few steps back to be better long term.

SuperflyKnick · Post #10 » by **SuperflyKnick** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:25 am

skywalker33 wrote:No, DEN says HELL NO !!!!!

Why lolz...ny has over 30 mil in cap space where they can sign better players then Lawson, chandler , or faRIED without giving up the top pk which has tons of potential.... As much as I love ur homerism ny says plz I don't think so

skywalker33 · Post #11 » by **skywalker33** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:31 am

SuperflyKnick wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:No, DEN says HELL NO !!!!!

Why lolz...ny has over 30 mil in cap space where they can sign better players then Lawson, chandler , or faRIED without giving up the top pk which has tons of potential.... As much as I love ur homerism ny says plz I don't think so

Please......what FA is gonna WANT to come to that NY mess ???? And that $30M isn't going as far as you thing because you're going to have to overpay for any FA...I'm confident we'll be selecting top 6 in the 2016 draft and sending our draft choice to TOR

I'll agree NY wants to go their own direction, but I have little doubt that the Nuggets could easily get 3 #1's for what is being offered up by the OP

PhilDMonkey · Post #12 » by **PhilDMonkey** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:27 am

NYK says NO.

They have huge cap space, why don't they just go out there and sign some Lawsons and Chandlers, and still keep Mudiay?
Jose is a little bit overpaid, but you don't need to attach a top-3 pick to dump him.

SuperflyKnick · Post #13 » by **SuperflyKnick** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:37 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
SuperflyKnick wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:No, DEN says HELL NO !!!!!

Why lolz...ny has over 30 mil in cap space where they can sign better players then Lawson, chandler , or faRIED without giving up the top pk which has tons of potential.... As much as I love ur homerism ny says plz I don't think so

Please......what FA is gonna WANT to come to that NY mess ???? And that $30M isn't going as far as you thing because you're going to have to overpay for any FA...I'm confident we'll be selecting top 6 in the 2016 draft and sending our draft choice to TOR

I'll agree NY wants to go their own direction, but I have little doubt that the Nuggets could easily get 3 #1's for what is being offered up by the OP

U wanna give me lotto numbers while ur at it ...news flash u don't know anything yet

NOOB77 · Post #14 » by **NOOB77** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:58 pm

NY says no thanks. Sign comparable players and keep the pick.

pipfan · Post #15 » by **pipfan** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:55 pm

Not being sarcastic, but what players will NY sign this year? Assume that LMA and Gasol are not options-I just don't see options as good as Faried, Lawson and Chandler. Plus, they would have to overpay FA's and their deals would be longer

skywalker33 · Post #16 » by **skywalker33** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:57 pm

SuperflyKnick wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
SuperflyKnick wrote:

Why lolz...ny has over 30 mil in cap space where they can sign better players then Lawson, chandler , or faRIED without giving up the top pk which has tons of potential.... As much as I love ur homerism ny says plz I don't think so

Please......what FA is gonna WANT to come to that NY mess ???? And that $30M isn't going as far as you thing because you're going to have to overpay for any FA...I'm confident we'll be selecting top 6 in the 2016 draft and sending our draft choice to TOR

I'll agree NY wants to go their own direction, but I have little doubt that the Nuggets could easily get 3 #1's for what is being offered up by the OP

U wanna give me lotto numbers while ur at it ...news flash u don't know anything yet

lotto numbers..did you think that up all by yourself ?? :roll:

We can agree that you do have the opportunity to sign other player, whether or not they're "better" accumulatively than Lawson, Faried or Chandler is yet to be determined. But here is what I do know. The knicks are going to cap at about $33M with the 4 players (of a minimum 13 players) they have U/C for next season. It's anticipated the cap will be about $68M leaving $35M to spend. The top pick will get about $4M of it leaving $31M for 8 players. One max contract is going to cost between $17-19M and in the shape the NYK's are in, expect the highest offers to be made if they expect to have one accepted. Although Phil will ask, I doubt any discounts are going to be made, especially with the anticipated rise in the 2016 cap, these guys are going to request as much as possible. So now you'll have $12M for 7 players, having signed only one free agent. One more decent FA id going to cost $7-9M leaving $5-6M for 5 more players to pay .... so that's what I THINK I know, seems realistic to me.

New York is a repeater over the cap again this year, so they'll pay higher (3x?) per dollar that they go over the luxury tax ( I believe that is the rule, feel free to enlighten me if not) , but Dolan and the NYK market can hold up a bit going over the limits.

My initial response have nothing to do with it being a KNICKS thing, just I feel Denver would be better off going in other directions than a deal with the knicks for their 1st, even agreed it was bad for the Knocks too. If you want to take issue with someone, talk to the OP.

Post #17 » by **jbk1234** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:19 pm

If the Knicks strike out in FA, then I could see this type of trade happening. But they wouldn't do it until the dream of signing a marque player this off season dies and the realization that they can't land a big man with the draft pick. As far as Nuggets fans saying no way, a couple of observations: (1) Faried is overpaid on that contract; and (2) Chandler is only under contract for one more year. Landing a top-three pick for that package is really best-case scenario.

LApwnd · Post #18 » by **LApwnd** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:42 pm

any chance Den trade Nurkic? If La stays at 4, I'd be interested in 4th/fillers for Lawson/Chandler/Nurkic

SuperflyKnick · Post #19 » by **SuperflyKnick** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:59 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
SuperflyKnick wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Please......what FA is gonna WANT to come to that NY mess ???? And that $30M isn't going as far as you thing because you're going to have to overpay for any FA...I'm confident we'll be selecting top 6 in the 2016 draft and sending our draft choice to TOR

I'll agree NY wants to go their own direction, but I have little doubt that the Nuggets could easily get 3 #1's for what is being offered up by the OP

U wanna give me lotto numbers while ur at it ...news flash u don't know anything yet

lotto numbers..did you think that up all by yourself ?? We can agree that you do have the opportunity to sign other player, whether or not they're "better" accumulatively than Lawson, Faried or Chandler is yet to be determined. But here is what I do know. The knicks are going to cap at about $33M with the 4 players (of a minimum 13 players) they have U/C for next season. It's anticipated the cap will be about $68M leaving $35M to spend. The top pick will get about $4M of it leaving $31M for 8 players. One max contract is going to cost between $17-19M and in the shape the NYK's are in, expect the highest offers to be made if they expect to have one accepted. Although Phil will ask, I doubt any discounts are going to be made, especially with the anticipated rise in the 2016 cap, these guys are going to request as much as possible. So now you'll have $12M for 7 players, having signed only one free agent. One more decent FA id going to cost $7-9M leaving $5-6M for 5 more players to pay .... so that's what I THINK I know, seems realistic to me.

New York is a repeater over the cap again this year, so they'll pay higher (3x?) per dollar that they go over the luxury tax ( I believe that is the rule, feel free to enlighten me if not) , but Dolan and the NYK market can hold up a bit going over the limits.

My initial response have nothing to do with it being a KNICKS thing, just I feel Denver would be better off going in other directions than a deal with the knicks for their 1st, even agreed it was bad for the Knocks too. If you want to take issue with someone, talk to the OP.

U declared no one wants to go to NY hell...my debate was you don't trade a potential franchise player in a top pk for ok talent in Lawson , chandler especially wen they all have large contracts already ... Pretty much defeats the direction they are looking to go....

basketballwacko2 · Post #20 » by **basketballwacko2** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:16 pm

pipfan wrote:I think Denver has to tank next year, and start over. Their pieces of Lawson, Chandler and Farrid are fine, but not near good enough to compete out West, even to try to get to the second round.

I figure PJ and NY must see the writing on the wall-they will not sign Marc or LMA this summer-and they will be weak again. They don't have their pick, and they can't have 3 bad years in a row. They need to sell some tickets, and the East should continue to be the junior conference. I know NY fans would say no way and I understand, but we don't pay the bills, and PJ has to sell some very expensive tickets. He needs a real team out there next year, not Melo, Jose, Bargs and some 19 year old.

Assumption-NY gets pick 3 or 4-Mudiay

Jose and Rights to Mudiay for Lawson, Farrid and Chandler

Denver rebuilds around Galo, Mudiay, that Euro center, Harris and their pick this lottery-let's say a swing man. That Mario Herenzga sounds good, and should be in their range. Jose tutors Mudiay and Hickson is expiring. I think Galo should become a stretch 4 and they should run like crazy. They would have unlimited cap space moving forward and a top 5 pick in 2016, plus extra picks and a great, young core

NY is a playoff team again, and could make the semis or the ECF with a ton of things falling right. Melo, Lawson and Farrid should be exciting in NY. Melo will never lead NY to a title, Phil must know that. And Durant/LBJ are not coming to NY as FA's-so this trade gives them quality players to make the playoffs and still have cap space once the cap jumps. Why develop a 19 kid in NY with Melo aging and fans wanting a real team?

Wow planning to tank a year in advance!!! I thought only Philly did that.