ATL/MKE/OKC

[bondom34]

From the Korver thread, this is just spitballing, but why not....

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lyc25qb

Atlanta trades Korver for Henson, Lamb, and Waiters.

Get a young big and a couple young guards and big man to infuse some youth to the lineup. Also works w/ Zaza and no Dion.

MKE trades Henson for 14.

Grab an extra late lotto pick for Henson. This also works w/ Zaza to ATL and Waiters to the Bucks, didn't know which is better.

OKC trades Lamb/Waiters/14 for Korver.

Gets the perfect starting SG without adding salary.

[skywalker33]

Like it, hate Korver going to OKC as a Nuggets fan though

[Texas Chuck]

I think Atlanta passes just because of how important Korver is to what they do. I think the value is good for them and I like Henson in place of the 14 for them.

I think the value is fair for the Bucks. I personally like Henson quite a bit, but I could see them entertaining this.

Love it for OKC obviously. Korver either starting at the 2 or as the 6th man just fits so beautifully. I assume your thinking is for him to backup Durant and provide some minutes at the 2?

[MoneyTalks41890]

Agree with Chuck here. As much as the rest of us want some of the Hawks' nice pieces, I don't see them changing much but adding a few guys through draft and FA. I think the Bucks would do well to reset on Henson and get a rookie deal guy that lines up more with Parker, and there will be guys of all positions around at 14 too.

For OKC, this is just too good. I think the value is more than fair for the Hawks, but OKC has too many guys and several dispensable assets, which make a move like this a no-brainer. Start Korver at the 2 and let him spell KD, and at times get out and run with Russ/Morrow/Korver/KD/Ibaka. Yikes.

[Hawk Eye]

I'm with Chuck in that Korver is so valuable to our offense. His presence alone opens up so many driving lanes for us because whoever is guarding Korver can't rotate over for the help D. Honestly I don't think anyone in the league is more glued to their man than the person that is guarding Korver.

Anyways, value wise the only player I like in this deal is Henson. If we are targeting a big man then id probably rather actually use Korver to grab Myles Turner in the 10-14 range of the draft and have 4 years of control of him rather than have Henson.

[jayjaysee]

Couldn't Atlanta just trade 15th for Henson? Milwaukee takes a shot on one of that third tier of big men and Atlanta gets a better piece for next year and keeps Korver?



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[djthesonicsfan]

Korver is 34 years old. He just got an ankle injury that likely requires surgery. He wasn't athletic before. No doubt he's a great 3pt shooter, but we already got a pretty good 3 & no D guy... Morrow. I know you don't like Waiters, but even Lamb & 14 would be too much for us to give for Korver.

[bondom34]

Korver is 34 years old. He just got an ankle injury that likely requires surgery. He wasn't athletic before. No doubt he's a great 3pt shooter, but we already got a pretty good 3 & no D guy... Morrow. I know you don't like Waiters, but even Lamb & 14 would be too much for us to give for Korver.

Korver defends, Morrow doesn't. If you haven't looked up numbers on Korver, he's flat amazing at basically everything you want in a starting SG. He's the perfect guy for any offense, and he doesn't rely on athletecism, the dude's a stud. If you think Dion's better than I got nothin.

Edit: For context, he is the 3rd best SG in RPM, and would be the second best defensive SG on the roster besides Robes. He put up top RAPM numbers too, and shot nearly 50 percent for 3. That's freakishly better than even Morrow. When he was on the court, ATL's offense was 12.1 points per 100 better than when he was off. That's similar to what Westbrook's effect was on OKC. There isn't a guy in the league I'd take over him if I could hand pick a starting 2 guard.

[djthesonicsfan]

Korver is 34 years old. He just got an ankle injury that likely requires surgery. He wasn't athletic before. No doubt he's a great 3pt shooter, but we already got a pretty good 3 & no D guy... Morrow. I know you don't like Waiters, but even Lamb & 14 would be too much for us to give for Korver.

Korver defends, Morrow doesn't. If you haven't looked up numbers on Korver, he's flat amazing at basically everything you want in a starting SG. He's the perfect guy for any offense, and he doesn't rely on athletecism, the dude's a stud. If you think Dion's better than I got nothin.

Edit: For context, he is the 3rd best SG in RPM, and would be the second best defensive SG on the roster besides Robes. He put up top RAPM numbers too, and shot nearly 50 percent for 3. That's freakishly better than even Morrow. When he was on the court, ATL's offense was 12.1 points per 100 better than when he was off. That's similar to what Westbrook's effect was on OKC. There isn't a guy in the league I'd take over him if I could hand pick a starting 2 guard.

What do the numbers say about his ability to run next season? Would those numbers be generated at the tarot company who say Korver is a lock down defender?

[bondom34]

Korver is 34 years old. He just got an ankle injury that likely requires surgery. He wasn't athletic before. No doubt he's a great 3pt shooter, but we already got a pretty good 3 & no D guy... Morrow. I know you don't like Waiters, but even Lamb & 14 would be too much for us to give for Korver.

Korver defends, Morrow doesn't. If you haven't looked up numbers on Korver, he's flat amazing at basically everything you want in a starting SG. He's the perfect guy for any offense, and he doesn't rely on athletecism, the dude's a stud. If you think Dion's better than I got nothin.

Edit: For context, he is the 3rd best SG in RPM, and would be the second best defensive SG on the roster besides Robes. He put up top RAPM numbers too, and shot nearly 50 percent for 3. That's freakishly better than even Morrow. When he was on the court, ATL's offense was 12.1 points per 100 better than when he was off. That's similar to what Westbrook's effect was on OKC. There isn't a guy in the league I'd take over him if I could hand pick a starting 2 guard.

What do the numbers say about his ability to run next season? Would those numbers be generated at the tarot company who say Korver is a lock down defender?

He's never depended on athletecism. And if you're worried about a sprained ankle, then you must have been dreading Russ and KD getting better. Guys get injured, when its a good player it isn't a concern. Its a sprained ankle, not an amputated leg. If you wanted a guy in the past like Afflalo, Korver is worth 3X as much.

[WarFan]

I know he looked better in the playoffs but how is Henson worth a mid-round 1st when he's about to get paid next summer? 14th seems about 10 spots to high for him.

[djthesonicsfan]

Korver defends, Morrow doesn't. If you haven't looked up numbers on Korver, he's flat amazing at basically everything you want in a starting SG. He's the perfect guy for any offense, and he doesn't rely on athletecism, the dude's a stud. If you think Dion's better than I got nothin.

Edit: For context, he is the 3rd best SG in RPM, and would be the second best defensive SG on the roster besides Robes. He put up top RAPM numbers too, and shot nearly 50 percent for 3. That's freakishly better than even Morrow. When he was on the court, ATL's offense was 12.1 points per 100 better than when he was off. That's similar to what Westbrook's effect was on OKC. There isn't a guy in the league I'd take over him if I could hand pick a starting 2 guard.

What do the numbers say about his ability to run next season? Would those numbers be generated at the tarot company who say Korver is a lock down defender?

He's never depended on athletecism. And if you're worried about a sprained ankle, then you must have been dreading Russ and KD getting better. Guys get injured, when its a good player it isn't a concern. Its a sprained ankle, not an amputated leg. If you wanted a guy in the past like Afflalo, Korver is worth 3X as much.

Uh, ya, by far and away the biggest issue regarding the notSonics is team health. Did you miss that? Seriously, anytime Lance Thomas is your starting SF the situation is not good.

The reason Korver never depended on his athleticism is because he doesn't have any. He's got a three point shot. A really good one. But that's it. If you think it's more than that it is because you learned all you know about the game in math class.

You seem to have forgotten Korver is 34 years old. And you seem to think his "ankle sprain" is no big deal. That's not what his teammates are saying (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25194908/hawks-demarre-carroll-says-kyle-korver-is-out-4-6-months). But maybe you know more than they do? The rest of us will just have to go by the time tested philosophy that when old guys get hurt there are big risks not only about their ability to return to their previous performance level but also further repeat injury. But maybe you think Korver is the exception? Like Ray Allen or Paul Pierce? I don't think so. More like another Mike Miller.

Korver had a great season. The season of his long and very solid career. He found a great niche for himself in Atlanta. His team did great. Outperformed everyone's expectations. He's a solid guy. A great 3pt shooter. But at this point he's a 34 year old with a messed up wheel. That's not our answer at starting SG so there is no reason to give away assets for him.

[King Ken]

Korver value is far greater than the perceive value. We aren't trading him.

[bondom34]

What do the numbers say about his ability to run next season? Would those numbers be generated at the tarot company who say Korver is a lock down defender?

He's never depended on athletecism. And if you're worried about a sprained ankle, then you must have been dreading Russ and KD getting better. Guys get injured, when its a good player it isn't a concern. Its a sprained ankle, not an amputated leg. If you wanted a guy in the past like Afflalo, Korver is worth 3X as much.

Uh, ya, by far and away the biggest issue regarding the notSonics is team health. Did you miss that? Seriously, anytime Lance Thomas is your starting SF the situation is not good.

The reason Korver never depended on his athleticism is because he doesn't have any. He's got a three point shot. A really good one. But that's it. If you think it's more than that it is because you learned all you know about the game in math class.

You seem to have forgotten Korver is 34 years old. And you seem to think his "ankle sprain" is no big deal. That's not what his teammates are saying (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25194908/hawks-demarre-carroll-says-kyle-korver-is-out-4-6-months). But maybe you know more than they do? The rest of us will just have to go by the time tested philosophy that when old guys get hurt there are big risks not only about their ability to return to their previous performance level but also further repeat injury. But maybe you think Korver is the exception? Like Ray Allen or Paul Pierce? I don't think so. More like another Mike Miller.

Korver had a great season. The season of his long and very solid career. He found a great niche for himself in Atlanta. His team did great. Outperformed everyone's expectations. He's a solid guy. A great 3pt shooter. But at this point he's a 34 year old with a messed up wheel. That's not our answer at starting SG so there is no reason to give away assets for him.

I'm speechless. Apparently I was wrong, OKC doesn't need the best 3 and D guard out there. Yep, he's out 4-6 months. Not career ending, he's back by about when KD is. This is a team who could have had Tyson Chandler but turned it down on a physical, I would hope they don't work in fear of these things, as that's a terrible way to run a team. Korver will age fine, Reggie Miller played til 39, Ray Allen similar. It is zero concern, he's too good.

[djthesonicsfan]

He's never depended on athletecism. And if you're worried about a sprained ankle, then you must have been dreading Russ and KD getting better. Guys get injured, when its a good player it isn't a concern. Its a sprained ankle, not an amputated leg. If you wanted a guy in the past like Afflalo, Korver is worth 3X as much.

Uh, ya, by far and away the biggest issue regarding the notSonics is team health. Did you miss that? Seriously, anytime Lance Thomas is your starting SF the situation is not good.

The reason Korver never depended on his athleticism is because he doesn't have any. He's got a three point shot. A really good one. But that's it. If you think it's more than that it is because you learned all you know about the game in math class.

You seem to have forgotten Korver is 34 years old. And you seem to think his "ankle sprain" is no big deal. That's not what his teammates are saying (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25194908/hawks-demarre-carroll-says-kyle-korver-is-out-4-6-months). But maybe you know more than they do? The rest of us will just have to go by the time tested philosophy that when old guys get hurt there are big risks not only about their ability to return to their previous performance level but also further repeat injury. But maybe you think Korver is the exception? Like Ray Allen or Paul Pierce? I don't think so. More like another Mike Miller.

Korver had a great season. The season of his long and very solid career. He found a great niche for himself in Atlanta. His team did great. Outperformed everyone's expectations. He's a solid guy. A great 3pt shooter. But at this point he's a 34 year old with a messed up wheel. That's not our answer at starting SG so there is no reason to give away assets for him.

I'm speechless. Apparently I was wrong, OKC doesn't need the best 3 and D guard out there. Yep, he's out 4-6 months. Not career ending, he's back by about when KD is. This is a team who could have had Tyson Chandler but turned it down on a physical, I would hope they don't work in fear of these things, as that's a terrible way to run a team. Korver will age fine, Reggie Miller played til 39, Ray Allen similar. It is zero concern, he's too good.

Klay Thompson says he's speechless too. Me, I just think your hyperbole knows no bounds.

[bondom34]

Uh, ya, by far and away the biggest issue regarding the notSonics is team health. Did you miss that? Seriously, anytime Lance Thomas is your starting SF the situation is not good.

The reason Korver never depended on his athleticism is because he doesn't have any. He's got a three point shot. A really good one. But that's it. If you think it's more than that it is because you learned all you know about the game in math class.

You seem to have forgotten Korver is 34 years old. And you seem to think his "ankle sprain" is no big deal. That's not what his teammates are saying (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25194908/hawks-demarre-carroll-says-kyle-korver-is-out-4-6-months). But maybe you know more than they do? The rest of us will just have to go by the time tested philosophy that when old guys get hurt there are big risks not only about their ability to return to their previous performance level but also further repeat injury. But maybe you think Korver is the exception? Like Ray Allen or Paul Pierce? I don't think so. More like another Mike Miller.

Korver had a great season. The season of his long and very solid career. He found a great niche for himself in Atlanta. His team did great. Outperformed everyone's expectations. He's a solid guy. A great 3pt shooter. But at this point he's a 34 year old with a messed up wheel. That's not our answer at starting SG so there is no reason to give away assets for him.

I'm speechless. Apparently I was wrong, OKC doesn't need the best 3 and D guard out there. Yep, he's out 4-6 months. Not career ending, he's back by about when KD is. This is a team who could have had Tyson Chandler but turned it down on a physical, I would hope they don't work in fear of these things, as that's a terrible way to run a team. Korver will age fine, Reggie Miller played til 39, Ray Allen similar. It is zero concern, he's too good.

Klay Thompson says he's speechless too.

I assume that's a Harden reference. OK then, you didn't get one guy who fit the mold, so don't try again.

As for hyperbole, I would ask you actually post reasoning other than "well he's hurt so he's going to fall off a cliff for sure and he's done". That's not what normally happens to players.

[Trader_Joe]

Yeah....Korver would be incredibly good in OKC. He's light years ahead of Morrow or any other SG option OKC currently has.

34?
So what?
He just had his best and first AS year. He's playing the best ball of his career right now.

A sprained ankle?
So?
It's a sprained ankle.
Not a break, not a tear, nothing major.

But....Atlanta has no reason to trade arguably their most important player on a bargain deal.
It would require a big overpay and this isn't it. It might be fair value, but Atlanta wouldn't accept fair value.

[djthesonicsfan]

No, Klay Thompson is not a Harden reference... unless you want to talk about the incredible defense he's applied to Harden last game. Klay Thompson was mentioned because he is the best 3&D SG in the NBA. By far. Not Korver as you stated. Which then gets back to the hyperbole comment. Not nearly as much fun if you have to explain it.

Bondom, we see the game differently. I played and coached for a long time. You typically quote stats to support your opinions. That's ok by me. I'm not interested or concerned about trying to convince you of anything. However, I would suggest that you try not to get so worked up over it. No RealGM discussion has ever resulted in an actual NBA trade nor ever will. Remember, this is only for fun among those with a similar interest. Diversity of opinion is actually a good thing.

And for the record, I completely agree with you regarding the Chandler deal. Especially since it basically cost us nothing. It was Presti's worse f'up except for drafting Green instead of Noah.

[bondom34]

No, Klay Thompson is not a Harden reference... unless you want to talk about the incredible defense he's applied to Harden last game. Klay Thompson was mentioned because he is the best 3&D SG in the NBA. By far. Not Korver as you stated. Which then gets back to the hyperbole comment. Not nearly as much fun if you have to explain it.

Bondom, we see the game differently. I played and coached for a long time. You typically quote stats to support your opinions. That's ok by me. I'm not interested or concerned about trying to convince you of anything. However, I would suggest that you try not to get so worked up over it. No RealGM discussion has ever resulted in an actual NBA trade nor ever will. Remember, this is only for fun among those with a similar interest. Diversity of opinion is actually a good thing.

And for the record, I completely agree with you regarding the Chandler deal. Especially since it basically cost us nothing. It was Presti's worse f'up except for drafting Green instead of Noah.

To the bolded. My only response is that generally, if the stats don't support an opinion at all, then its possible you may need to rethink it. If I say the earth is flat, despite all evidence to the contrary, and won't rethink my position, despite all evidence, maybe I should rethink it.

As for Klay, again, I go to actual evidence instead of anything else. Korver is a better 3 point shooter. Period, and not close. His defensive stats are also better, and again, not too close. So yeah, right now I'd take him over Klay. And yea, he's better than Klay by a large margin. The response of "I watched the games and I know better" is generally something I've run into when someone knows they have zero evidence and want to seem like they know more, its not true. Sorry, but its just not and that's a poor arguement.

Yeah....Korver would be incredibly good in OKC. He's light years ahead of Morrow or any other SG option OKC currently has.

34?
So what?
He just had his best and first AS year. He's playing the best ball of his career right now.

A sprained ankle?
So?
It's a sprained ankle.
Not a break, not a tear, nothing major.

But....Atlanta has no reason to trade arguably their most important player on a bargain deal.
It would require a big overpay and this isn't it. It might be fair value, but Atlanta wouldn't accept fair value.

All of this.

[djthesonicsfan]

No, Klay Thompson is not a Harden reference... unless you want to talk about the incredible defense he's applied to Harden last game. Klay Thompson was mentioned because he is the best 3&D SG in the NBA. By far. Not Korver as you stated. Which then gets back to the hyperbole comment. Not nearly as much fun if you have to explain it.

Bondom, we see the game differently. I played and coached for a long time. You typically quote stats to support your opinions. That's ok by me. I'm not interested or concerned about trying to convince you of anything. However, I would suggest that you try not to get so worked up over it. No RealGM discussion has ever resulted in an actual NBA trade nor ever will. Remember, this is only for fun among those with a similar interest. Diversity of opinion is actually a good thing.

And for the record, I completely agree with you regarding the Chandler deal. Especially since it basically cost us nothing. It was Presti's worse f'up except for drafting Green instead of Noah.

To the bolded. My only response is that generally, if the stats don't support an opinion at all, then its possible you may need to rethink it. If I say the earth is flat, despite all evidence to the contrary, and won't rethink my position, despite all evidence, maybe I should rethink it.

As for Klay, again, I go to actual evidence instead of anything else. Korver is a better 3 point shooter. Period, and not close. His defensive stats are also better, and again, not too close. So yeah, right now I'd take him over Klay. And yea, he's better than Klay by a large margin. The response of "I watched the games and I know better" is generally something I've run into when someone knows they have zero evidence and want to seem like they know more, its not true. Sorry, but its just not and that's a poor arguement.

Yeah....Korver would be incredibly good in OKC. He's light years ahead of Morrow or any other SG option OKC currently has.

34?
So what?
He just had his best and first AS year. He's playing the best ball of his career right now.

A sprained ankle?
So?
It's a sprained ankle.
Not a break, not a tear, nothing major.

But....Atlanta has no reason to trade arguably their most important player on a bargain deal.
It would require a big overpay and this isn't it. It might be fair value, but Atlanta wouldn't accept fair value.

All of this.

Terrific. You get Korver I get Thompson. I would be estactic about that. And that you're not making any actual decisions for the team.