Indiana/Washington/Golden State

[8305]

That's the thing. Nobody knows who might be available in the future (see Hibbert/Bennett). At some point in the upcoming season a team will be looking to dump a player that Larry might find appealing. That's why it is good to remain flexible like Scoot mentioned. How would you feel if Nene stood in the way of acquiring a legit piece to add to the core. Nene is nothing more than a shaky stop-gap at best.

Pacers are going to want to compete this season. Of Mahamni, Allen and Turner (the current 4 and 5 rotation) there is no one who can realistically handle major minutes. Or at least there is no history to support that notion. I think if the Pacers stand pat with the front court they have now the Playoffs are an iffy proposition. Competitiveness short term without assuming long term contracts will trump flexibility and there simply isn't much left in the free agent pool.

See. You're making the deal and think it's better to pay a ton of money to get a name guy because it's late and you don't think you'll do better. What if Ian is better for what we want to do this year? Why deal Hibbert to play more uptempo and then just go about by trading away a center who can play uptempo (Ian) for another highly paid center who is more of the "plodder" type and has trouble running the floor (Nene)? If Lavoy can handle 28 mpg (he did effectively at the beginning of last year when West was out), Ian can handle 20-25mpg, let's hope that Turner can play 20-25mpg, and it certainly looks like PG will play 15-20mpg at the 4. Right there is your 96 minutes at the two positions. We could re sign Scola. We could go out and add a shooting PF like Teletovic. We could see Shayne Whittington take on a situational role of 5-10 mpg. We could still see a signing like a Jeff Withey for a few mpg at the 5 spot.

To me, all those are better options, and more realistic, than paying a ton of money to have Nene play about 5-10 more minutes a night than Ian. Bird has avoided the PF market as yet for a reason. It's clear he wants to force Vogels hand to play PG at the 4 this year. He gave him Copeland a few years back and then gave him an out to avoid playing smaller by also adding Scola. Looks like he may not give Frank the "out" this year.

You really think Mahamni is going to be better in an uptempo system? The guy can't catch standing still let alone on the move and then there's the issue of making a decision once he has the ball. And then there's the foul shooting. Counting for Ian for 20 -25 minutes could be a pretty frustrating experience.

If Nene is done this is a bad idea. FWIW, I heard Mike Wells on the Sports Jam speculating that before its over Indiana will exceed the cap for 2015/2016 and that they will have to do that if the want some basic competency in their front court. He also brought some skepticism to the notion of Paul George playing a lot of minutes at the 4.

[Scoot McGroot]

Pacers are going to want to compete this season. Of Mahamni, Allen and Turner (the current 4 and 5 rotation) there is no one who can realistically handle major minutes. Or at least there is no history to support that notion. I think if the Pacers stand pat with the front court they have now the Playoffs are an iffy proposition. Competitiveness short term without assuming long term contracts will trump flexibility and there simply isn't much left in the free agent pool.

See. You're making the deal and think it's better to pay a ton of money to get a name guy because it's late and you don't think you'll do better. What if Ian is better for what we want to do this year? Why deal Hibbert to play more uptempo and then just go about by trading away a center who can play uptempo (Ian) for another highly paid center who is more of the "plodder" type and has trouble running the floor (Nene)? If Lavoy can handle 28 mpg (he did effectively at the beginning of last year when West was out), Ian can handle 20-25mpg, let's hope that Turner can play 20-25mpg, and it certainly looks like PG will play 15-20mpg at the 4. Right there is your 96 minutes at the two positions. We could re sign Scola. We could go out and add a shooting PF like Teletovic. We could see Shayne Whittington take on a situational role of 5-10 mpg. We could still see a signing like a Jeff Withey for a few mpg at the 5 spot.

To me, all those are better options, and more realistic, than paying a ton of money to have Nene play about 5-10 more minutes a night than Ian. Bird has avoided the PF market as yet for a reason. It's clear he wants to force Vogels hand to play PG at the 4 this year. He gave him Copeland a few years back and then gave him an out to avoid playing smaller by also adding Scola. Looks like he may not give Frank the "out" this year.

You really think Mahamni is going to be better in an uptempo system? The guy can't catch standing still let alone on the move and then there's the issue of making a decision once he has the ball. And then there's the foul shooting. Counting for Ian for 20 -25 minutes could be a pretty frustrating experience.

If Nene is done this is a bad idea. FWIW, I heard Mike Wells on the Sports Jam speculating that before its over Indiana will exceed the cap for 2015/2016 and that they will have to do that if the want some basic competency in their front court. He also brought some skepticism to the notion of Paul George playing a lot of minutes at the 4.

I imagine Indy will exceed the cap, too. All that has to happen for that is to re-sign Lavoy Allen last. We have Bird Rights. That puts us over the cap.

Otherwise, I think the era of us wanting big men who are a main offensive option are over. I think we want a guy like Ian, who will run up and down the court and just crash the boards (his hands don't matter; we aren't running sets for him), or Myles Turner/Shayne Whittington (young guys who can hit a 3 reliably and spread the floor for our real offensive options (the wings) to attack the hoop. A guy like Nene fills the interior of the lane, while providing lessening offensive skills, and making it tougher for your George Hill, Monta Ellis, or Paul George to slash to the rim.

As for Ian? He played 19 mpg last year. And he did so effectively as a backup big. He alters shots, and he rebounds. He doesn't need the ball. I think asking for an extra 1-5 minutes or so isn't too terribly bad. His FT shooting is worrisome, but before last year, he never shot below 60% from the line, and he's essentially only taken one trip to the line per game (averages between 1.5-2.4 attempts per game).

Ultimately, I think Bird really wants to go all in on this wing dominant, uptempo system, where we have shooters on the court. I think Lavoy can fit it. I think Myles Turner can contribute at least 20 minutes a night as a rookie in it. I think we can add a few other guys cheap to help us (my favorites are Teletovic as a shooter and Withey as the big body for situational play). I don't want to give up a guy that fits the system (Ian) for a guy that really doesn't, add $9m and it all not be on someone who can actually possibly be a piece for more than just next year. I'd rather just re-sign Scola for cheap, keep Ian, and go in that direction.

Wells may be skeptical of Paul George playing the PF position, but it certainly appears as if it's going to happen, come hell or high water. Bird wants it, and he's giving Vogel the personnel where it's necessary, too.

[8305]

FWIW, I liked your idea of Tayshaun Price on the Pacer Board. I think we need another 3/4 if we want to make the wing dominate approach to work.

[pcbothwel]

Wiz probably say no. While Lee would be a good fit to stretch the floor, I'd rather bet on the upside of Nene for 3M less.
As a backup C, Nene can be a stud defender and absolutely destroy backup Centers (Ask Noah from a year ago).
Lee would certainly give us something we lack and could give us more productive minutes, but Nene could come in and simply go off for 12/8/2 in one quarter on great efficiency and great defense... Wiz take the upside knowing we have Gortat, Hump, Blair (and probably Gooden) if Nene is ineffective or injured.

[statsman]

Lee to the Celtics for Wallace. This thread can be closed.