MEM/CHA/MIN

[Note30]

Memphis sends: Vince Carter, one of their signed 2nds from this year, 2nd round pick
Memphis receives: Marvin Williams

Minnesota sends: Kevin Martin, Adriean Payne
Minnesota receives: Vince Carter, Cody Zeller, 2nd from Memphis


Charlotte sends: Cody Zeller, Marvin Williams
Chatlotte receives: Kevin Martin , Adriean Payne, one of the signed 2nds from memphis this year.


Memphis shortens Carters contract, and adds a 3 & D guy who can help fill the big man hole as well as play SF.

Minnesota upgrades from Payne to Zeller, which in my opinion is a very necessary upgrade and add an old seasoned vet to the collection of Andre Miller, Tayshaun Prince and Kevin Garnett, which can definetly help the young guys, as well as let Zach Shabazz and Wiggins each play a large amount of minutes.

Charlotte adds a real shooter to that passing defending no shooting 1-2-3. Downgrades a bit from Zeller but that frees up space between Kaminsky and Jefferson, while adding a very active hustler in Payne.

[RollingWave]

Memphis sends: Vince Carter, one of their signed 2nds from this year, 2nd round pick
Memphis receives: Marvin Williams

Minnesota sends: Kevin Martin, Adriean Payne
Minnesota receives: Vince Carter, Cody Zeller, 2nd from Memphis


Charlotte sends: Cody Zeller, Marvin Williams
Chatlotte receives: Kevin Martin , Adriean Payne, one of the signed 2nds from memphis this year.


Memphis shortens Carters contract, and adds a 3 & D guy who can help fill the big man hole as well as play SF.

Minnesota upgrades from Payne to Zeller, which in my opinion is a very necessary upgrade and add an old seasoned vet to the collection of Andre Miller, Tayshaun Prince and Kevin Garnett, which can definetly help the young guys, as well as let Zach Shabazz and Wiggins each play a large amount of minutes.

Charlotte adds a real shooter to that passing defending no shooting 1-2-3. Downgrades a bit from Zeller but that frees up space between Kaminsky and Jefferson, while adding a very active hustler in Payne.

Ehhh, you'd have to believe Vince have nothing left in the tank to go for this move. if your Memphis. while I get that it's probably true that 39 year old Vince really have nothing left, between the two of them the last guy to actually have something resembling a good season was still Vince. I suppose Marvin's floor is slightly higher, but that's about it.

From Charlotte's part, I guess if you don't like Cody then that's fine. though Payne's actually older than Zeller heh. they do salvage at some future assets. Martin does obviously give them a guy that's actually a knock down shooter. instead of their group of "guys that can hit open shots pretty consistently" types.

For Minni this seems a somewhat marginal move who's main purpose seem to be sorting out the log jam a bit while trading a C+/B- prospect for a more B/B+ one.

[Golabki]

For Memphis - it fills a whole that they already filled with better players in Matt Barnes and Jeff Green. I'm not sure it makes sense unless something happens in the first few months of the season.

For CHA - I think zeller is just worth too much to dump for martin, even if martin is the better fit.

[Note30]

Memphis sends: Vince Carter, one of their signed 2nds from this year, 2nd round pick
Memphis receives: Marvin Williams

Minnesota sends: Kevin Martin, Adriean Payne
Minnesota receives: Vince Carter, Cody Zeller, 2nd from Memphis


Charlotte sends: Cody Zeller, Marvin Williams
Chatlotte receives: Kevin Martin , Adriean Payne, one of the signed 2nds from memphis this year.


Memphis shortens Carters contract, and adds a 3 & D guy who can help fill the big man hole as well as play SF.

Minnesota upgrades from Payne to Zeller, which in my opinion is a very necessary upgrade and add an old seasoned vet to the collection of Andre Miller, Tayshaun Prince and Kevin Garnett, which can definetly help the young guys, as well as let Zach Shabazz and Wiggins each play a large amount of minutes.

Charlotte adds a real shooter to that passing defending no shooting 1-2-3. Downgrades a bit from Zeller but that frees up space between Kaminsky and Jefferson, while adding a very active hustler in Payne.

Ehhh, you'd have to believe Vince have nothing left in the tank to go for this move. if your Memphis. while I get that it's probably true that 39 year old Vince really have nothing left, between the two of them the last guy to actually have something resembling a good season was still Vince. I suppose Marvin's floor is slightly higher, but that's about it.

From Charlotte's part, I guess if you don't like Cody then that's fine. though Payne's actually older than Zeller heh. they do salvage at some future assets. Martin does obviously give them a guy that's actually a knock down shooter. instead of their group of "guys that can hit open shots pretty consistently" types.

For Minni this seems a somewhat marginal move who's main purpose seem to be sorting out the log jam a bit while trading a C+/B- prospect for a more B/B+ one.

Vince's last season was abysmal, I don't think that Memphis would want his contract going into the 2016 offseason. Marvin expires this year and can help in the backcourt considering Brandan Wright is the only backup that Memphis has.

Charlotte desperately needs a guy who can actually knock down shots.

You nailed the minny point on the head. Plus this removed the log jam at sg/sf.

[spearsy23]

Kevin Martin is worth more than Cody Zeller and a 2nd

[pacers33granger]

I think this is horrible for Charlotte. Zeller hasn't been amazing, but he's quietly been a lot better than most think.

[HornetJail]

Kevin Martin is worth more than Cody Zeller and a 2nd

I'd argue that Zeller is worth more than Martin and a 2nd to us, especially now that Zeller is the only plus defender on the roster that can play in the middle.

[spearsy23]

Kevin Martin is worth more than Cody Zeller and a 2nd

I'd argue that Zeller is worth more than Martin and a 2nd to us, especially now that Zeller is the only plus defender on the roster that can play in the middle.

Then obviously you don't trade for him. Minnesota shouldn't throw away value to help you.

[Saltine]

Why on earth do we want Zeller? We have Pek, KG, Towns, Bjelica, Dieng and Bennet. We don't need another big. And Carter is toast, this is just silly.

[RollingWave]

Why on earth do we want Zeller? We have Pek, KG, Towns, Bjelica, Dieng and Bennet. We don't need another big. And Carter is toast, this is just silly.

Because of that group only 1 guy is surely still part of the Wolf's plan 2 years from now? (though hopefully Bjelica too.)

Martin's trade value is probably a bit overrated at this point. he's never been the picture of health to begin with, and is coming off a season where he missed more than half the season and had a horrendous RPM .

Getting Zeller and a 2nd for Martin in terms of value is perfectly fine, even quiet good, though obviously from a roster POV they probably should try to move guys for just picks would make more sense.

Right now the Celtics / Sixers / Nuggets / Utah have the most excessive picks (especially first rounders.) around, I guess if you really want to try your luck Utah might actually be the most logical partner to try to swap Martin to, though I can't see why they would need him enough to actually hand over a first (unless maybe it's the 2017 GSW pick which is probably very late first.)

I'd be surprised with Martin lands more than a couple second rounder to be honest or even 2 of them for that matter .

[Saltine]

Why on earth do we want Zeller? We have Pek, KG, Towns, Bjelica, Dieng and Bennet. We don't need another big. And Carter is toast, this is just silly.

Because of that group only 1 guy is surely still part of the Wolf's plan 2 years from now? (though hopefully Bjelica too.).

Towns was the first pick in the draft. Gorgui is an excellent backup C, Bjelica was Euro MVP at PF... Why would we give minutes to Zeller over Towns??? They will all still be here in a few years.

[RollingWave]

Why on earth do we want Zeller? We have Pek, KG, Towns, Bjelica, Dieng and Bennet. We don't need another big. And Carter is toast, this is just silly.

Because of that group only 1 guy is surely still part of the Wolf's plan 2 years from now? (though hopefully Bjelica too.).

Towns was the first pick in the draft. Gorgui is an excellent backup C, Bjelica was Euro MVP at PF... Why would we give minutes to Zeller over Towns??? They will all still be here in a few years.

where did i say Zeller over Towns? by saying that I obviously mean Towns would be clearly in the plans, others are questionable.

KG is obviously retired in 2 years , Pek is probably not in the long term plans, Dieng is fine but if he tops out as a backup C then that's dimes in a dozen. the type of guys you move first when you need cap space. I don't know about Bjelica, he could be anywhere between a good starter to nothing right now. we'll have to see.

What is true is that Minni have too many guys they need to play to see what they got, so the original deal is theory is that they are removing two such guys (Martin and Payne) for 1 (Zeller.) Martin obviously isn't in the longer term plan, if the wolfs like what they can get for him they'll do it in a heartbeat, while it's pretty obvious that at this point Zeller is a better prospect than Payne at least. if not Dieng as well.

[spearsy23]

Because of that group only 1 guy is surely still part of the Wolf's plan 2 years from now? (though hopefully Bjelica too.).

Towns was the first pick in the draft. Gorgui is an excellent backup C, Bjelica was Euro MVP at PF... Why would we give minutes to Zeller over Towns??? They will all still be here in a few years.

where did i say Zeller over Towns? by saying that I obviously mean Towns would be clearly in the plans, others are questionable.

KG is obviously retired in 2 years , Pek is probably not in the long term plans, Dieng is fine but if he tops out as a backup C then that's dimes in a dozen. the type of guys you move first when you need cap space. I don't know about Bjelica, he could be anywhere between a good starter to nothing right now. we'll have to see.

What is true is that Minni have too many guys they need to play to see what they got, so the original deal is theory is that they are removing two such guys (Martin and Payne) for 1 (Zeller.) Martin obviously isn't in the longer term plan, if the wolfs like what they can get for him they'll do it in a heartbeat, while it's pretty obvious that at this point Zeller is a better prospect than Payne at least. if not Dieng as well.

So they add another guy that isn't sure to be in the future plans at a position where they're overloaded with those guys, plus sell a very good SG at a discount? Why? It's not like Zeller is better than what they already have.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Towns was the first pick in the draft. Gorgui is an excellent backup C, Bjelica was Euro MVP at PF... Why would we give minutes to Zeller over Towns??? They will all still be here in a few years.

where did i say Zeller over Towns? by saying that I obviously mean Towns would be clearly in the plans, others are questionable.

KG is obviously retired in 2 years , Pek is probably not in the long term plans, Dieng is fine but if he tops out as a backup C then that's dimes in a dozen. the type of guys you move first when you need cap space. I don't know about Bjelica, he could be anywhere between a good starter to nothing right now. we'll have to see.

What is true is that Minni have too many guys they need to play to see what they got, so the original deal is theory is that they are removing two such guys (Martin and Payne) for 1 (Zeller.) Martin obviously isn't in the longer term plan, if the wolfs like what they can get for him they'll do it in a heartbeat, while it's pretty obvious that at this point Zeller is a better prospect than Payne at least. if not Dieng as well.

So they add another guy that isn't sure to be in the future plans at a position where they're overloaded with those guys, plus sell a very good SG at a discount? Why? It's not like Zeller is better than what they already have.

What do you think Kmart is worth? Because I don't think he has Zeller's value nor do I think this is selling a "very good SG" at a discount.

[jbk1234]

Who is the best defensive big man the Hornets have on their roster after this trade? Payne? What do they do after he fouls out in the first half?

[pacers33granger]

where did i say Zeller over Towns? by saying that I obviously mean Towns would be clearly in the plans, others are questionable.

KG is obviously retired in 2 years , Pek is probably not in the long term plans, Dieng is fine but if he tops out as a backup C then that's dimes in a dozen. the type of guys you move first when you need cap space. I don't know about Bjelica, he could be anywhere between a good starter to nothing right now. we'll have to see.

What is true is that Minni have too many guys they need to play to see what they got, so the original deal is theory is that they are removing two such guys (Martin and Payne) for 1 (Zeller.) Martin obviously isn't in the longer term plan, if the wolfs like what they can get for him they'll do it in a heartbeat, while it's pretty obvious that at this point Zeller is a better prospect than Payne at least. if not Dieng as well.

So they add another guy that isn't sure to be in the future plans at a position where they're overloaded with those guys, plus sell a very good SG at a discount? Why? It's not like Zeller is better than what they already have.

What do you think Kmart is worth? Because I don't think he has Zeller's value nor do I think this is selling a "very good SG" at a discount.

Agreed. I think the Wolves get a steal here, though I completely understand the issues with the roster fit for them, but on a pure value standpoint they come out way ahead.

[wolves_89]

The proposed trade makes little sense for Minnesota. Carter is worthless and Zellar would be behind Garnett, Towns, Pekovic, Dieng, and Bjelica on the depth chart. The Wolves would be a better team by letting Martin continue to start at SG rather than trading him to upgrade from Payne to Zellar as the 6th big.

[spearsy23]

where did i say Zeller over Towns? by saying that I obviously mean Towns would be clearly in the plans, others are questionable.

KG is obviously retired in 2 years , Pek is probably not in the long term plans, Dieng is fine but if he tops out as a backup C then that's dimes in a dozen. the type of guys you move first when you need cap space. I don't know about Bjelica, he could be anywhere between a good starter to nothing right now. we'll have to see.

What is true is that Minni have too many guys they need to play to see what they got, so the original deal is theory is that they are removing two such guys (Martin and Payne) for 1 (Zeller.) Martin obviously isn't in the longer term plan, if the wolfs like what they can get for him they'll do it in a heartbeat, while it's pretty obvious that at this point Zeller is a better prospect than Payne at least. if not Dieng as well.

So they add another guy that isn't sure to be in the future plans at a position where they're overloaded with those guys, plus sell a very good SG at a discount? Why? It's not like Zeller is better than what they already have.

What do you think Kmart is worth? Because I don't think he has Zeller's value nor do I think this is selling a "very good SG" at a discount.

Martin is an efficient 20 ppg scorer on a nice contract at the weakest NBA position. Zeller is a 7.5/6 backup big, he isn't a game changer defensively (even though he may be the hornets best defensive big, that's an indictment of them not an endorsement of him), he hasn't shown anything to think he'll be an NBA starter. A contender will be willing to give more for Martin at the deadline than a mediocre prospect and second round pick. On top of that Payne almost matched Zeller's raw numbers once he moved to Minnesota, there's no reason for Minny to do this.

[Domejandro]

As a side note, even disregarding the very questionable value, I am fairly certain that any trade with Vince Carter would be vetoed immediately. I highly doubt the Sam Mitchell has forgotten about all the bull Vince put him through, haha.

[RollingWave]

So they add another guy that isn't sure to be in the future plans at a position where they're overloaded with those guys, plus sell a very good SG at a discount? Why? It's not like Zeller is better than what they already have.

What do you think Kmart is worth? Because I don't think he has Zeller's value nor do I think this is selling a "very good SG" at a discount.

Martin is an efficient 20 ppg scorer on a nice contract at the weakest NBA position. Zeller is a 7.5/6 backup big, he isn't a game changer defensively (even though he may be the hornets best defensive big, that's an indictment of them not an endorsement of him), he hasn't shown anything to think he'll be an NBA starter. A contender will be willing to give more for Martin at the deadline than a mediocre prospect and second round pick. On top of that Payne almost matched Zeller's raw numbers once he moved to Minnesota, there's no reason for Minny to do this.

Srsly? PPG? in 2015 ? on real GM?

Let's point out that Martin won't play 30+ min on a playoff team, even if it's a blah one in the east, his defensive flaws are very very legit and not just some stereotype being thrown around (it can be backed up by plus / minus related numbers.) this isn't even counting that in the last 8 season he's played over 70 games twice. no one's trading big assets for a guy that's probably only going to play 55 games, cough up as many buckets as he nets , and is on the wrong side of 30.

One could debate Zeller's value greatly of course, but he's been a functional rotation player in his early 20s after 2 season, usually those guys are worth something.