Do you agree with hinkie's rebuild plan for the sixers?

[BullyKing]

yeah PG looks like he's not ready to concede best 2-way wing to Kawhi just yet.... Makes me wonder if Indy will be a buyer at the deadline.

I think someone like Dieng would be an interesting addition for them.

[basketballwacko2]

Yeah, long term it will be very interesting to see what they do next draft. In the short run, getting Kendall Marshall back might help. Although if Wroten gets back first, god help us all?

I saw that they have 4 #1 picks in 2016.

Yeah, they should get OKC's and Miami's but LAL's looks like a coin toss. Which is going to be a massively important coin toss, as its basically 50-50 to get a pick at 4 or 5.

But obviously 2 top 5 picks would be a massive change, especially when you think that this Philly rebuild has so far only played 1 guy picked in the top 5.

It's easy to say now, but I never would have picked Embiid with that foot injury, I would have traded that pick. IDK if that kid is ever gonna play. This years draft is not looking as good as 2015 did.

[basketballwacko2]

yeah PG looks like he's not ready to concede best 2-way wing to Kawhi just yet.... Makes me wonder if Indy will be a buyer at the deadline.

I love George Hill but can you imagine if Indiana had PG and Kawhi? I think the Pacers are much better than anyone thought they'd be. They are one good big away from being really good.

[HartfordWhalers]

I saw that they have 4 #1 picks in 2016.

Yeah, they should get OKC's and Miami's but LAL's looks like a coin toss. Which is going to be a massively important coin toss, as its basically 50-50 to get a pick at 4 or 5.

But obviously 2 top 5 picks would be a massive change, especially when you think that this Philly rebuild has so far only played 1 guy picked in the top 5.

It's easy to say now, but I never would have picked Embiid with that foot injury, I would have traded that pick. IDK if that kid is ever gonna play. This years draft is not looking as good as 2015 did.

Given his chance to be a superstar versus just a good prospect, I don't have a problem with that call. But I'm not convinced on Okafor despite him playing above expectations. Then again, I didn't scout Okafor so I'm still catching up on him fully.

[Renegade_H]

Its tough this year. Nothing really changed from last year so expectations were that we would get slighter better with the addition of Stauskas and Okafaor. With that not happening, its been brutal.

I still feel that once we get more guards on our teams... things will start to form. Wroten and Marshall should provide more time for low post to develop. We just are not getting noel and jah the ball in the low post quick enough.

As for our picks, gotta hold onto them for now. Trade Deadline is coming up. Maybe OKC would rather part ways with Waiters for their pick. Not sure I agree with it but this team needs to win at least 15 games. 2016 was always going to be the year that we grouped together and made a "team".

Its also funny that the past two years, we have not been the worst team in the NBA record wise.

[Jojothewhale]

Its tough this year. Nothing really changed from last year so expectations were that we would get slighter better with the addition of Stauskas and Okafaor. With that not happening, its been brutal.

I still feel that once we get more guards on our teams... things will start to form. Wroten and Marshall should provide more time for low post to develop. We just are not getting noel and jah the ball in the low post quick enough.

I thought this too at the beginning of the year, but what was actually lost is the team's identity. In the second half, when everyone showed improvement, they were really quite good on the defensive end in the half court, especially given the talent level of the team overall. They were a defensive team that tried to get out in transition for easy buckets. Now they seemingly have nothing they do well. As you said, Okafor seems to be getting the ball way too late in the clock, his defensive shortcomings are still evident, and I haven't checked the numbers on this (so I certainly could be wrong), but it feels like the wings are also getting the ball very late in the clock and being forced to chuck.

As for our picks, gotta hold onto them for now. Trade Deadline is coming up. Maybe OKC would rather part ways with Waiters for their pick. Not sure I agree with it but this team needs to win at least 15 games. 2016 was always going to be the year that we grouped together and made a "team".

Its also funny that the past two years, we have not been the worst team in the NBA record wise.

Absolutely hold the picks. That's the plan and nothing that has happened is enough for the overarching organizational philosophy to change. If we believe the pattern and talk from Hinkie on down, the things that matter have actually gone fairly well, minus Embiid's health -- Okafor's and Noel's strengths (and weaknesses) seem to be translating to the NBA. I don't understand why anyone is acting like Okafor being lost mentally on the defensive end in year one is a surprise. Anyone paying attention and being realistic should have expected it. The Sixers will "succeed" or "fail" based on player development like pretty much everyone else.

None of this means I watched the second half of that horrid Indiana game. There's no excuse for that.

[HartfordWhalers]

(first post)

Welcome to the board!

[BullyKing]

Its tough this year. Nothing really changed from last year so expectations were that we would get slighter better with the addition of Stauskas and Okafaor. With that not happening, its been brutal.

I still feel that once we get more guards on our teams... things will start to form. Wroten and Marshall should provide more time for low post to develop. We just are not getting noel and jah the ball in the low post quick enough.

I thought this too at the beginning of the year, but what was actually lost is the team's identity. In the second half, when everyone showed improvement, they were really quite good on the defensive end in the half court, especially given the talent level of the team overall. They were a defensive team that tried to get out in transition for easy buckets. Now they seemingly have nothing they do well. As you said, Okafor seems to be getting the ball way too late in the clock, his defensive shortcomings are still evident, and I haven't checked the numbers on this (so I certainly could be wrong), but it feels like the wings are also getting the ball very late in the clock and being forced to chuck.

As for our picks, gotta hold onto them for now. Trade Deadline is coming up. Maybe OKC would rather part ways with Waiters for their pick. Not sure I agree with it but this team needs to win at least 15 games. 2016 was always going to be the year that we grouped together and made a "team".

Its also funny that the past two years, we have not been the worst team in the NBA record wise.

Absolutely hold the picks. That's the plan and nothing that has happened is enough for the overarching organizational philosophy to change. If we believe the pattern and talk from Hinkie on down, the things that matter have actually gone fairly well, minus Embiid's health -- Okafor's and Noel's strengths (and weaknesses) seem to be translating to the NBA. I don't understand why anyone is acting like Okafor being lost mentally on the defensive end in year one is a surprise. Anyone paying attention and being realistic should have expected it. The Sixers will "succeed" or "fail" based on player development like pretty much everyone else.

None of this means I watched the second half of that horrid Indiana game. There's no excuse for that.

Good first post.

[Clyde Frazier]

Just wanted to put a few more recent thoughts about the sixers out there. Didn't really want to create a new thread, and couldn't find a more recent one to comment on. I know it's a touchy subject, but this thread has lasted 22 pages... might as well keep it going.

- Will be interesting to see how the colangelo signing affects future moves they make. Who knows if silver had any influence in the signing, but I don't think hinkie's suddenly lost all his power. I would hope we at least see some more substantial team building. You can still do that without mortgaging the future.

- Hinkie's comments about marshall not coming back as soon as expected seemed disingenuous. It was pretty scapegoat-esque. They signed him after he was recovering from a torn ACL. There was no guarantee he'd be ready to start the season. Not having a legitimate starting PG has clearly affected the play and development of noel and okafor. I'm just talking about having signed someone on the level of collison or lin. Nothing crazy.

- The off the court okafor stuff -- as far as I know, he had no off the court issues prior to coming to philly. Not saying he's without blame or anything, but the losing culture clearly got to him. Look at KG mentoring towns in minni. That stuff matters, and we see these small veteran signings on other teams with young talent. It's not as if philly didn't have the money to spend just to reach the salary floor. Don't see how this passed hinkie by as an important aspect of a team concept.

As of now i'm all about seeing what this roster looks like going into year 4 or after the trade deadline in year 4. There's a pretty good chance the lakers keep their pick, so that's not a given by any means. If they don't have a competitive team at that point, I'd be worried as a sixers fan.

[winter_mute_13]

I was expecting more "I told you so"s so well done OP

- Will be interesting to see how the colangelo signing affects future moves they make. Who knows if silver had any influence in the signing, but I don't think hinkie's suddenly lost all his power. I would hope we at least see some more substantial team building. You can still do that without mortgaging the future.

I think just about everyone, Sixer or non-Sixer fan, expects more team building from now on. The controversy is on whether this was planned all along or whether this is something new - a "course correction", I think the owner said. But whichever the case, the Process is dead. Expect the Sixers to move more like a conventional team now.

I don't expect the Sixers to be a playoff team in year 4, not even if they land the #1 pick. They just have too many holes to fill, not enough of a structure in place. But clearly everyone is expecting visible improvements. If the Sixers are still touting Kendall Marshall as their starting PG this time next year, then I think heads will roll.

[HartfordWhalers]

- Hinkie's comments about marshall not coming back as soon as expected seemed disingenuous. It was pretty scapegoat-esque. They signed him after he was recovering from a torn ACL. There was no guarantee he'd be ready to start the season. Not having a legitimate starting PG has clearly affected the play and development of noel and okafor. I'm just talking about having signed someone on the level of collison or lin. Nothing crazy.

- The off the court okafor stuff -- as far as I know, he had no off the court issues prior to coming to philly. Not saying he's without blame or anything, but the losing culture clearly got to him. Look at KG mentoring towns in minni. That stuff matters, and we see these small veteran signings on other teams with young talent. It's not as if philly didn't have the money to spend just to reach the salary floor. Don't see how this passed hinkie by as an important aspect of a team concept.

In terms of Okafor, 3 of 4 of his incidents were before he even played 3 games for the team. I find it hard to believe that less than a week of basketball (or in some of the events, none) resulted in him becoming what appeared to be a belligerent drunk. I feel like the amount of effort that has gone into shoehorning this into an already existing narrative is dramatic, and doesn't pass the does that actually make sense test.

In terms of Marshall, it was definitely all bunk. Same with the we didn't intent to trade Payton stuff. I can drag up the references from a different post on it, but yeah, both those narratives told by him in the Lowe interview were at best disingenuous slanting of the truth. Prior to that interview, you wouldn't get much from Hinkie but when he would speak on a subject it would be with candor and math what was verifiable.

[Golabki]

The moral of the story - It's better to be dumb and lucky than smart and cynical.

Honestly, if the NBA wants to run teams, I'd start with the incompetent ownership groups in the league's 2 premier teams (NYK and LAL). That's hurting the league a lot more than Hinke.

[Texas Chuck]

Honestly, if the NBA wants to run teams, I'd start with the incompetent ownership groups in the league's 2 premier teams (NYK and LAL). That's hurting the league a lot more than Hinke.

Uh the NBA doesn't want to run teams. When they were running New Orleans it was terrible and the Chris Paul fiasco was the highlight of that mess.

And there are tons of franchises worse than the Lakers and Knicks if we are going to talk about incompetent situations. I'll refrain from naming names because then this thread just becomes about that and people get upset.

But it's part of the commissioner's job to advise his owners, and thus him speaking to Harris about matters makes sense. From the reports it appears Philly ownership was heading in this direction anyway so I think the Silver aspect to this has been overblown.


I'd say this has to be the Summer of Hinkie. If by mid-season next year multiple draft picks don't look like cornerstone pieces and they weren't able to add any young veterans in free agency, and they still look nearly incapable of even competing in games like right now then he's gone. He won't get any more time.

But if some of Noel, Okafor, Saric, Embiid?, (Simmons, Bender, Murray, Brown, Labissiere, etc) are looking good and they have added some decent veterans then he should be fine.

[Warriorfan]

Hinkle overall did OK but I would compare him against what Ainge in Bos, Meyers in GS and Utah GM. All those teams were mostly built through the draft and are ahead of the 76ers.

GS really did well in drafting. It's big trade was Monta for Bogus which helped tank enough to get Barnes.

Bos garnered talent and even more picks.

Utah collected firsts from GS in the salary dump for Iggy .

Phi should do well in Sacramento deal.


.

[Golabki]

Honestly, if the NBA wants to run teams, I'd start with the incompetent ownership groups in the league's 2 premier teams (NYK and LAL). That's hurting the league a lot more than Hinke.

Uh the NBA doesn't want to run teams. When they were running New Orleans it was terrible and the Chris Paul fiasco was the highlight of that mess.

And there are tons of franchises worse than the Lakers and Knicks if we are going to talk about incompetent situations. I'll refrain from naming names because then this thread just becomes about that and people get upset.

But it's part of the commissioner's job to advise his owners, and thus him speaking to Harris about matters makes sense. From the reports it appears Philly ownership was heading in this direction anyway so I think the Silver aspect to this has been overblown.


I'd say this has to be the Summer of Hinkie. If by mid-season next year multiple draft picks don't look like cornerstone pieces and they weren't able to add any young veterans in free agency, and they still look nearly incapable of even competing in games like right now then he's gone. He won't get any more time.

But if some of Noel, Okafor, Saric, Embiid?, (Simmons, Bender, Murray, Brown, Labissiere, etc) are looking good and they have added some decent veterans then he should be fine.

it depends on which version of events you believe - I was reacting to the strong version in which the league strong armed philly ownership into pushing go me into a secondary role. The narrative is out there... I take your point that it's probably an exaggeration.

I specifically sighted LAL and NYK because those teams have a massive impact on the overall profile and value of the league.

My frustration stems from the fact that I think the single biggest problem with the league is that bad owners can ruin franchise with impunity... But the league ignores that while going after philly for instituting a rationale strategy based on the rules the NBA created.

[Texas Chuck]

My frustration stems from the fact that I think the single biggest problem with the league is that bad owners can ruin franchise with impunity... But the league ignores that while going after philly for instituting a rationale strategy based on the rules the NBA created.

I agree a bad owner is nearly impossible for a franchise to overcome. But we saw even in the case of Sterling it can be difficult for the league to do something about that. I know the Mavericks had a terrible owner in the years prior to Cuban(Perot Jr) and it was certainly a reason why Dallas was the worst franchise in the league for a decade. Heck the Stars/Rangers were held hostage by Tom Hicks for half a decade and finally MLB had to step in and force his hand with the Rangers. It sucks.


I'm sure there has been some degree of pressure from other owners here. Clearly if Hinkie were to inspire other teams to go to this extreme it would be potentially disastrous for the league. So the other owners feel they have some stake in this not working or at least not continuing.