Raptors/Sixers

Bentley1225 · Post #1 » by **Bentley1225** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:32 pm

Ill offer this idea for a straight swap of PFs. Raps can increase minutes for Bennett and Johnson over next 2 months while Sixers pick up a stretch 4 who is younger and compliments playing behind Noel

To Toronto
-Carl Landry (2 years, $13.5 million)
-2016 Denver 2nd round pick

To Toronto
-Patrick Patterson (2 years, $12.3 million)

Why?
-Patterson just isnt fitting into the rotation anymore. Over last 50 games, he has shot considerably worse and is becoming a greater liability on the floor for the Raps. I think generally speaking, he needs a change of scenery. Landry is more of a mid range PF who can rebound. I think he would fit in a rotation with Scola starting (24 mpg) and Bennett sharing minutes off the bench (16 mpg for Landry, 8 mpg for Bennett). Sixers get a younger stretch 4 who can play behind Noel.

Lowry/Joseph/Wright
DeRozan/Ross/Powell
Carroll/Johnson*/Caboclo
Scola*/Bennett*/Landry
Valinciunas/Biyombo/Noguiera

Canaan/Pressey/McConnell/Marshall
Wroten/Stauskas/Thompson
Covington/Grant/Sampson
Noel/Patterson/Holmes
Okafor/Embiid

the_process · Post #2 » by **the_process** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:02 pm

So wait, Landry and a 2nd for Pat Pat? Hmmmm. Yeah, I suppose if Toronto is on board with this I'd be amenable. Be surprised if Toronto is okay with this though.

Post #3 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:01 pm

Yeah, this should be a definite no for Toronto.

Post #4 » by **loserX** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:05 pm

That seems really, really bad for Toronto. They should keep Patterson around, but if they really don't want him any more, Utah will take him with capspace and you don't have to clog your cap or roster with Carl Landry.

I doubt Patterson has no value to the Raps, but stretch-4s are gold these days. He'll surely have real value to other teams.

Troubadour · Post #5 » by **Troubadour** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:34 pm

Terrible trade for both teams. Patterson just takes away minutes from the young players and Carl Landry does not add to the Raptors.

Bentley1225 · Post #6 » by **Bentley1225** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:51 pm

loserX wrote:That seems really, really bad for Toronto. They should keep Patterson around, but if they really don't want him any more, Utah will take him with capspace and you don't have to clog your cap or roster with Carl Landry.

I doubt Patterson has no value to the Raps, but stretch-4s are gold these days. He'll surely have real value to other teams.

Ok, Booker for Patterson straight up?

Splinter · Post #7 » by **Splinter** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:34 pm

Bentley1225 wrote:
loserX wrote:That seems really, really bad for Toronto. They should keep Patterson around, but if they really don't want him any more, Utah will take him with capspace and you don't have to clog your cap or roster with Carl Landry.

I doubt Patterson has no value to the Raps, but stretch-4s are gold these days. He'll surely have real value to other teams.

Ok, Booker for Patterson straight up?

You're really down on Patterson right now, aren't you? Be patient, he's been slowly regaining his form the last couple games. Like loserX said, stretch-4's are worth their weight in gold these days and Pat is on a reasonable contract. If Masai could get a 1st, 2nd and a TPE for Vasquez, I'm sure Patterson is at least worth a protected 1st

HotelVitale · Post #8 » by **HotelVitale** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:42 pm

Yeah, everyone has a bad stretch of 8-10 games throughout the season, shouldn't overreact if that comes in the first 10 games for some guys. 2Pat is a career 48% shooter, and he's 26 and in a good situation--it's unlikely he just became a crappy player and 36% shooter over night.

Post #9 » by **Morris_Shatford** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:01 pm

I would sooner move Patterson and an asset for an upgrade at the four over moving him for a downgrade and an asset.

Dr Positivity · Post #10 » by **Dr Positivity** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:06 pm

Landry for Patterson needs a lot more sweetener from PHI end. I'd consider Nik and Landry for Patterson

Lovetron Joe · Post #11 » by **Lovetron Joe** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:23 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:Yeah, this should be a definite no for Toronto.

Patterson has career averages of 8 points and 4.7 rebounds. Less than a block a game. I like that he is 26 and liked him at KY. Having a horrible year this year. What does he do well?

Post #12 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:24 pm

Lovetron Joe wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:Yeah, this should be a definite no for Toronto.

Patterson has career averages of 8 points and 4.7 rebounds. Less than a block a game. I like that he is 26 and liked him at KY. Having a horrible year this year. What does he do well?

Not be awful? So, he has that going on Landry.

Bentley1225 · Post #13 » by **Bentley1225** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:26 pm

Well Im basing my opinion on the 28 games after AS Break last season and first 13 games this season. A half season sample space (41 games) is enough for me to judge Patterson accordingly

28 games post AS Break in '14-15
PER 48 mins:
12.6 ppg
9rpg
41% from the field
30% from 3pt land

13 games this season
PER 48 mins:
13.3 ppg
7.7 rpg
37% from the field
33% from 3pt land

Collective 41 game average:
PER 48 mins
12.8ppg
8.5rpg
39% from field
31% from 3pt land

Career:
PER 48 mins:
16.8 ppg
9.6 rpg
47% from field
37% from 3pt land

In the collective sample space of the last 41 games, Patterson is shooting just under 40% from the field and less than 31% from 3pt land.

Conversely, Carl Landry has following PER 48 mins career stats:

22.7 ppg
10.4 rpg
53% from field

Landry had a higher PER than Patterson last season (14.93 to 14.67)

Granted, Landry is 32 and certainly has peaked in his career. I still think he's an effective mid range PF coming off the bench at 16mpg. I think we all recognized Patterson is not a starting PF in the NBA so arguably the value between backup PFs is not all that major.

Dr Positivity · Post #14 » by **Dr Positivity** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:50 pm

Lovetron Joe wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:Yeah, this should be a definite no for Toronto.

Patterson has career averages of 8 points and 4.7 rebounds. Less than a block a game. I like that he is 26 and liked him at KY. Having a horrible year this year. What does he do well?

Last year he was very efficient possession user at 122 ORTG while providing strong floor spacing value and not being a liability at defense. A good case can be made Patterson, not Amir was the best Raptors PF last year. Patterson was this 3pt shooting player also for more than just have the first half of last season. He was as good in 2013-2014 too

The part that worries me about his play this year, is that he was actually even worse in preseason, so I don't know what's going on with him. His 3s need to start going down. With that said we're not at the point of trading him for freaking Carl Landry, who is dead money. We're also not a team that can afford having injury prone players very much atm, the team has spent an unusually high amount of roster spots on non-rotation caliber player projects (Bennett, Bebe, Bruno, Powell, Wright), so trading Patterson for a PF with less reliable health is not a great fit

RonaldArtest · Post #15 » by **RonaldArtest** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:09 am

This trade would be a knee-jerk reaction by the Raps to a guy who's starting slow this year. Be patient, pat is worth much more than this.

Lovetron Joe · Post #16 » by **Lovetron Joe** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:13 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Lovetron Joe wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:Yeah, this should be a definite no for Toronto.

Patterson has career averages of 8 points and 4.7 rebounds. Less than a block a game. I like that he is 26 and liked him at KY. Having a horrible year this year. What does he do well?

Not be awful? So, he has that going on Landry.

True!

Post #17 » by **Texas Chuck** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:16 pm

RonaldArtest wrote:This trade would be a knee-jerk reaction by the Raps to a guy who's starting slow this year. Be patient, pat is worth much more than this.

he's worth more, but not much more. He simply doesn't have much value at all. He's a decent backup 4 on an okay but hardly great contract.

RonaldArtest · Post #18 » by **RonaldArtest** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:58 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
RonaldArtest wrote:This trade would be a knee-jerk reaction by the Raps to a guy who's starting slow this year. Be patient, pat is worth much more than this.

he's worth more, but not much more. He simply doesn't have much value at all. He's a decent backup 4 on an okay but hardly great contract.

That's debatable. If you look at the last 3 or so years he's been fairly effective shooting the three ball, and with today's game having a reliable stretch 4 is a great asset. His contract next season will be a bargain, as he likely should bounce back from this sluggish start. He has limitations to his game, but I'm sure he could fetch quite a bit more than a washed up Landry and a 2nd. Also not a fan of trading a guy when his recent poor play deflates his value.

Post #19 » by **Texas Chuck** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:38 pm

he could fetch a 2nd without Landry. Maybe we define "quite a bit more" differently....

Post #20 » by **Alfred** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:07 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
RonaldArtest wrote:This trade would be a knee-jerk reaction by the Raps to a guy who's starting slow this year. Be patient, pat is worth much more than this.

he's worth more, but not much more. He simply doesn't have much value at all. He's a decent backup 4 on an okay but hardly great contract.

Patrick Patterson as an asset is lightyears better than Landry, who is a bad player when he does play (and he isn't because he's injured again), he's 31 and has a bigger contract to boot.