Rubio to Suns...

[gaspar]

The other version not involving Chriss was with Kings (vs. 76ers scenario above)...

To Kings: Bledsoe + Dieng + Tucker

To Suns: Rubio + Gay

To Wolves: WCS + McLemore or Collison

But seems light for Kings and rich for Suns...if Suns add one of their Heat 1st owed might be overpay as well.

Not at all. For this Suns team I'd take hard working role player who doesn't need the ball in his hands like Tucker over a high-usage low-efficiency chucker like Gay. And as I said before, the Suns value Bledsoe much higher than Rubio.

[Colbinii]

The other version not involving Chriss was with Kings (vs. 76ers scenario above)...

To Kings: Bledsoe + Dieng + Tucker

To Suns: Rubio + Gay

To Wolves: WCS + McLemore or Collison

But seems light for Kings and rich for Suns...if Suns add one of their Heat 1st owed might be overpay as well.

Rubio is not worth the cost of upgrading Dieng to WCS, but including Collison makes this deal interesting.

I'm not sure Collison is someone the Wolves want to be trading for at this point. Until the legal issues with his pending domestic violence case are resolved I can't see any team trading for him.

He isn't. One has to assume it gets resolved, because quite frankly, Collison isn't tradeable until it is resolved.

[The War Report]

Based on some of the points put forward, what does everyone think about:

Suns out: Bledsoe, Len, Knight
In: Rubio, Jahlil Okafor, Carl Landry (EC), approx. $7 million TE

Okafor/Chandler
Bender/Chriss/Landry
Warren/Dudley/PJ?
Booker/Barbosa/Goodwin
Rubio/Ulis/FA?

The Suns get the perfect traditional PG to set up the young players. Okafor provides a different skillset to Len, and is locked into his rookie contract for a few more years (whereas Len is due for an extension). Landry would be a great veteran mentor for the rook 4's. I'm expecting Suns fans to hate this, but I genuinely really like this for them.


Philly out: Okafor, Landry, something - Luwawu??
In: Bledsoe, Dieng

Noel/Dieng/Embiid
Simmons/Saric/Holmes
Covington/Grant/Simmons
Henderson/Stauskas/Bayless
Bledsoe/Rodriguez/Bayless

The Sixers get a huge upgrade at PG, while getting a more than adequate replacement for Okafor. With Embiid still a complete unknown quantity, it makes sense to acquire a legit rotation C IMO.


Minny out: Rubio, Dieng
In: Brandon Knight, Len, Luwawu

Len/Aldrich/KAT
KAT/Bjelica/J.Hill
Wiggins/Shabazz/B.Rush
B.Knight/Lavine/Luwawu
Dunn/B.Knight/T.Jones

The Wolves add a more scoring guard and compensate by strengthening the D up front. I'm torn on whether I like this for us - just throwing it out there.

[wablty]

You're going to have to explain to me why Thibs wants a 6'3" guy that can't guard wings. I'm also curious how Len is a defensive upgrade to Dieng. He's got some talent and he's still young, but he's certainly not a better player than Gorgui right now in really any capacity besides pure rim protection. That's an upside move that rebuilding teams do. Not teams that already have retooled and are trying to win.

Brandon Knight is a bench player on any decent team.

[Aussiepiston1]

I think a 4 team trade would work the best here but with Rubio going to Sac Town.

Philly- Out- Noel, Landry. In- Knight, TJ Warren. get some shooters and veterans to balance out Roster.

Minny- Out- Rubio. In- Chriss, Landry get a young PF and a veteran one.

Sac- Out- Gay. In- Rubio. Get their PG

Phoenix- Out- Chriss, TJ Warren, Knight. In- Noel, Gay. Might be a little light here but it depends how much they value Noel and Gay

[Barkley_34]

I think a 4 team trade would work the best here but with Rubio going to Sac Town.

Philly- Out- Noel, Landry. In- Knight, TJ Warren. get some shooters and veterans to balance out Roster.

Minny- Out- Rubio. In- Chriss, Landry get a young PF and a veteran one.

Sac- Out- Gay. In- Rubio. Get their PG

Phoenix- Out- Chriss, TJ Warren, Knight. In- Noel, Gay. Might be a little light here but it depends how much they value Noel and Gay

Jesus no!

[rugbyrugger23]

The other version not involving Chriss was with Kings (vs. 76ers scenario above)...

To Kings: Bledsoe + Dieng + Tucker

To Suns: Rubio + Gay

To Wolves: WCS + McLemore or Collison

But seems light for Kings and rich for Suns...if Suns add one of their Heat 1st owed might be overpay as well.

Not at all. For this Suns team I'd take hard working role player who doesn't need the ball in his hands like Tucker over a high-usage low-efficiency chucker like Gay. And as I said before, the Suns value Bledsoe much higher than Rubio.

You keep saying that...Suns value Bledsoe much more vs. Rubio. You do realize every organization can and will say that about its own players! Meaning every Wolves brass (and fans for that matter), can and will have same stance: Wolves value Rubio much higher than Bledsoe. Zero trades would ever happen in real world if your mantra was reality.

Point of RGM is to evaluate value. Of said players and overall trade package and overall outcome.

Now if your stance you're trying to make is Suns value a Bledsoe TYPE PG (scoring combo guard or however they see him) vs. Rubio TYPE PG (a true pass-first-defensive PG), I can kind of see what you are attempting to say. However I would debate that point with you.

Being that Suns also have similar to Bledsoe (scoring combo guard type) in Knight and fact Booker at other guard is grooming to be alpha scoring/shooting weapon. And that is point of this thread, Suns could, maybe even should, be looking to add a different dimensions like Rubio at guard position.

[rugbyrugger23]

Rubio is not worth the cost of upgrading Dieng to WCS, but including Collison makes this deal interesting.

I'm not sure Collison is someone the Wolves want to be trading for at this point. Until the legal issues with his pending domestic violence case are resolved I can't see any team trading for him.

He isn't. One has to assume it gets resolved, because quite frankly, Collison isn't tradeable until it is resolved.

I agree about not being worth Rubio for an upgrade from Dieng to WCS in a vacuum (and I liked trade more before Collison did what he did). But outside of a vacuum room setting, if Thibs knows what Dunn-LaVine-Wiggins-WCS-Towns can be, how special of a lineup, and what he can do with such a now complete 1-5 lineup, vs. what having Rubio means to him, in the near and long term future, "sacrificing" Rubio would very much seem worth it. As I have said before, 1 short term step back trading Rubio for 2 steps forward getting a PFOF (more so with one like WCS and his abilities/fit).

[patman52]

I like the idea of moving Rubio and letting Dunn mature with the rest of the team. And he would be a great fit with either Phx or the Kings.

I think Chris would fit nice on the wolves and saves them 12 mill a year. Chris matures with the rest of the team. The 12 mill keeps dieng on the team next year
ll
Brandon Knight to Philly

2 of Korkmaz/Covington/ Luwawu to Phx

[HartfordWhalers]

Rubio is not worth the cost of upgrading Dieng to WCS, but including Collison makes this deal interesting.

I'm not sure Collison is someone the Wolves want to be trading for at this point. Until the legal issues with his pending domestic violence case are resolved I can't see any team trading for him.

He isn't. One has to assume it gets resolved, because quite frankly, Collison isn't tradeable until it is resolved.

Last I heard, it was misdemeanor charges and nothing more. Players are easily moved in that situation, and at most Collison is looking like he might miss 2 games or so. Which is not to make light of what the initial allegations were or their seriousness in terms of the world as a whole, but in terms of the NBA and being tradable, they just don't matter much.

[Texas Chuck]

I'm not sure Collison is someone the Wolves want to be trading for at this point. Until the legal issues with his pending domestic violence case are resolved I can't see any team trading for him.

He isn't. One has to assume it gets resolved, because quite frankly, Collison isn't tradeable until it is resolved.

Last I heard, it was misdemeanor charges and nothing more. Players are easily moved in that situation, and at most Collison is looking like he might miss 2 games or so. Which is not to make light of what the initial allegations were or their seriousness in terms of the world as a whole, but in terms of the NBA and being tradable, they just don't matter much.

It matters a little bit in that some owners would probably refuse to consider Collison at all because they don't think he's a good enough player to off-set the potential PR hit. But yeah I'd agree that at this point he's likely still movable tho he was never a player who was going to bring great return.

[Fo-Real]

I think you should drop the suns out of this trade completely. First off there is no way we THROW in a rookie that we just traded up in the draft to go get for anything less than an impact player. Bledsoe isn't going anywhere unless we get a wow offer, no he isn't worth a wow offer to the rest of the league but to us he is. Len and Warren are gonna get chances to prove themselves with heavy minutes and trading any assets for the likes of Rubio, Noel, Gay, or Landry make no sense for us. We like every one of our players over EVERY player offered to the Suns in all of these deals. You guys deal with each other or add someone else.

[Fo-Real]

Notice I did not mention Knight, Tucker or Archie Goodwin, they can be had for offers that make sense. Not salary dumps( we are below the salary floor, we don't want or need to dump anyone, not even Chandler), not gifts, but someone who likes them for someone who fell out of favor or does not fit any more.

[jbk1234]

I think that Rubio for Gay might be the way to go here. Two teams who want more than they can get for their players.

[rugbyrugger23]

I think you should drop the suns out of this trade completely. First off there is no way we THROW in a rookie that we just traded up in the draft to go get for anything less than an impact player. Bledsoe isn't going anywhere unless we get a wow offer, no he isn't worth a wow offer to the rest of the league but to us he is. Len and Warren are gonna get chances to prove themselves with heavy minutes and trading any assets for the likes of Rubio, Noel, Gay, or Landry make no sense for us. We like every one of our players over EVERY player offered to the Suns in all of these deals. You guys deal with each other or add someone else.

Not sure where your reading THROW in a rookie. Or just saying that to skew your position. Then why open a thread involving the Suns or go to TnT board ever if you like all of your Suns players and they are not on trade table if not for a wow offer...a wow offer you know they are not worth and you are not going to get?

[Fo-Real]

I think you should drop the suns out of this trade completely. First off there is no way we THROW in a rookie that we just traded up in the draft to go get for anything less than an impact player. Bledsoe isn't going anywhere unless we get a wow offer, no he isn't worth a wow offer to the rest of the league but to us he is. Len and Warren are gonna get chances to prove themselves with heavy minutes and trading any assets for the likes of Rubio, Noel, Gay, or Landry make no sense for us. We like every one of our players over EVERY player offered to the Suns in all of these deals. You guys deal with each other or add someone else.

Not sure where your reading THROW in a rookie. Or just saying that to skew your position. Then why open a thread involving the Suns or go to TnT board ever if you like all of your Suns players and they are not on trade table if not for a wow offer...a wow offer you know they are not worth and you are not going to get?

First page talked of throwing the rook in. I read all of the offers on the board and just like you can give my opinion of the offer. Yes, not going to get a wow offer so no reason to move him.... unless, and that unless does not include anyone offered in these deals. Sometimes when you watch people talk of others teams and offering assets that make absolutely no sense and have no chance of happening you mention that to them. If the deal was close to making sense and only needed minor tweaks to make sense, I would have mentioned that too, that is what the trade board was all about it thought. Don't take it personally, if I said I wanted to trade Knight and pieces for Jimmy Butler because it's what's best for them to save money. I expect a Bulls fan to tell me why my idea is FLAWED!!

[gaspar]

You keep saying that...Suns value Bledsoe much more vs. Rubio. You do realize every organization can and will say that about its own players! Meaning every Wolves brass (and fans for that matter), can and will have same stance: Wolves value Rubio much higher than Bledsoe. Zero trades would ever happen in real world if your mantra was reality.

Point of RGM is to evaluate value. Of said players and overall trade package and overall outcome.

Now if your stance you're trying to make is Suns value a Bledsoe TYPE PG (scoring combo guard or however they see him) vs. Rubio TYPE PG (a true pass-first-defensive PG), I can kind of see what you are attempting to say. However I would debate that point with you.

Being that Suns also have similar to Bledsoe (scoring combo guard type) in Knight and fact Booker at other guard is grooming to be alpha scoring/shooting weapon. And that is point of this thread, Suns could, maybe even should, be looking to add a different dimensions like Rubio at guard position.

Rubio is not a good fit in Phoenix at all. He needs the ball in his hands at all times to be of any use to a team, while Bledsoe proven over the years that he's very effective playing off the ball (he played very well alongside CP3, Dragic, IT and Knight). Rubio also becomes a big liability in crunch time when he's scared **** to even attempt a shot.

You woke up yesterday with a mission to find the PFOTF for the Wolves and it seems like you don't care about the value and fit for other teams you are trying to trade with. I'll repeat: trading Bledsoe for Rubio makes absolutely no sense for the Suns. Asking for Chriss (a guy who the Suns almost drafted at #4 and paid a hefty price to acquire from the Kings) in exchange for some unnamed "value assets" on top of it is just ridiculous.

[rugbyrugger23]

You keep saying that...Suns value Bledsoe much more vs. Rubio. You do realize every organization can and will say that about its own players! Meaning every Wolves brass (and fans for that matter), can and will have same stance: Wolves value Rubio much higher than Bledsoe. Zero trades would ever happen in real world if your mantra was reality.

Point of RGM is to evaluate value. Of said players and overall trade package and overall outcome.

Now if your stance you're trying to make is Suns value a Bledsoe TYPE PG (scoring combo guard or however they see him) vs. Rubio TYPE PG (a true pass-first-defensive PG), I can kind of see what you are attempting to say. However I would debate that point with you.

Being that Suns also have similar to Bledsoe (scoring combo guard type) in Knight and fact Booker at other guard is grooming to be alpha scoring/shooting weapon. And that is point of this thread, Suns could, maybe even should, be looking to add a different dimensions like Rubio at guard position.

Rubio is not a good fit in Phoenix at all. He needs the ball in his hands at all times to be of any use to a team, while Bledsoe proven over the years that he's very effective playing off the ball (he played very well alongside CP3, Dragic, IT and Knight). Rubio also becomes a big liability in crunch time when he's scared **** to even attempt a shot.

You woke up yesterday with a mission to find the PFOTF for the Wolves and it seems like you don't care about the value and fit for other teams you are trying to trade with. I'll repeat: trading Bledsoe for Rubio makes absolutely no sense for the Suns. Asking for Chriss (a guy who the Suns almost drafted at #4 and paid a hefty price to acquire from the Kings) in exchange for some unnamed "value assets" on top of it is just ridiculous.

The ball in hands misnomer about Rubio is such a false and lazy narrative. If I cared to, I would find the thread were another poster did a great job with advanced stats of disproving that myth of yours. If your view is that Rubio isn't a good fit with Suns, that is your opinion...but should not be based on ball in hand myth. And I would disagree with you on Rubio fit with Suns. Note: Rubio has proved to play well with another guard, even a PG. His first 2-3 seasons that is exactly what he did.

By many here, and I would say the mean (removing outliers of Suns and Wolves fan) would say Rubio value is slightly more vs. Bledsoe. Which is fair to me and an argument can be made either way. In OP trade Chriss value would be what does your beloved Bledsoe fetch from 3rd team? To me, more than enough assets to make trade worth Chriss...more so if like many, one is in the camp of Rubio > Bledsoe value.

[Fo-Real]

Fine Rubio is better if that's what you want to hear, keep the better player, or find a better deal for better players for him. The Suns don't want the better player nor do they want or need to trade Bledsoe or Kriss.

[wablty]

I think that Rubio for Gay might be the way to go here. Two teams who want more than they can get for their players.

If Gay wasn't a 1 year rental maybe. But he is.