Phi-Chi-Sac

[AllHype3]

This is an attempt to acquire the Sacramento 2017 pick unprotected. Sacramento has rights to pick 1-10. Chicago has rights to picks 11-30. Philadelphia has the right to swap picks with Sacramento.

What would the Sixers need to give up to the Kings and Bulls to acquire this pick unprotected. Which of these teams is more optimistic as to where Sacramento will finish this season. Last season they had pick 8. They were in a 3 way tie for picks 8,9,10. 2 wins away from 11th spot.

What would make sense for all involved?

[jbk1234]

Philly has swap rights at 1-10 I believe. They don't own it outright.

[blind prophet]

A decent PG

[AllHype3]

Correct. Just swap rights. Sixers would need to give something to aquire the rights for the pick 1-10. One of Sac and Chicago will end up with nothing. Is it worth the gamble for either team. Or, is it a case where getting something is better than nothing?

[BallinBen]

I'm verily optimistic as a Sixers fan that Sacramento will be terrible. They lost Bellinelli and Rondo. They will probably trade Gay too. They have another new coach. Right now their Lineup is
Collison/Cousins
Afflalo/McLemore
Barnes/Caspi
Gay/Tolliver/Labissiare
Cousins/WCS/Kufos/Papagiannis
Without Gay they have a big hole in their starting Lineup to go along with a weak PF position, unless they run 2 centers. Their backup pg is a 2nd round rookie, their starter is a career backup. Afflalo is getting older, so is Barnes. Cousins will have to carry them. I think the Sixers should give them a pick for the removal of protection because giving them an impact player will decrease the value of the pick. The Sixers already have two likely lottery picks, Im fine where we are.

[AllHype3]

LA pick I am not convinced will convey, and this would be insurance of the second pick in 2017. 3 picks at the top of the draft isn't necessary with where the roster is right now.

[patman52]

I see Sacramento finishing with a better record than Philly. So I don't see that swap taking place. I don't see Sacramento finishing any better than last year and they will tank the last month to insure they finish 8-10
Philly I think wins 22-28 wins up from 10 last year. Sacramento 28-32 wins. I don't think Gay gets traded until the deadline to a team with an injury.

If Philly wants the 8th pick, I would think Saric and a mid 1st would do it.

They lost Rondo, but Beli stunk last year. Affalo should be an improvement.
Kroeger should be a breth of fresh air after Karl.
and Temple probably plays 12 min at the point.

Cousins and Koufos
Cassipi and WCS
Gay and Barnes/Cassipi
Affalo/Ben/Malachi
collison/Temple

I think the improvement of Affalo over Ben makes up for a lot of what Rondo bought to the kings, never mind a coach that main purpose is not to alienate Cousins as Karl did.

[Kings2013]

I'm verily optimistic as a Sixers fan that Sacramento will be terrible. They lost Bellinelli and Rondo. They will probably trade Gay too. They have another new coach. Right now their Lineup is
Collison/Cousins
Afflalo/McLemore
Barnes/Caspi
Gay/Tolliver/Labissiare
Cousins/WCS/Kufos/Papagiannis
Without Gay they have a big hole in their starting Lineup to go along with a weak PF position, unless they run 2 centers. Their backup pg is a 2nd round rookie, their starter is a career backup. Afflalo is getting older, so is Barnes. Cousins will have to carry them. I think the Sixers should give them a pick for the removal of protection because giving them an impact player will decrease the value of the pick. The Sixers already have two likely lottery picks, Im fine where we are.

Casspi is the starter, and the FO confidence in him spurs Gay's availability (if Gay is dealt, but Gay can potentially work as PF). Collison has started half his career and was fine here as one. Lost Rondo and Belinelli? I don't mind your confidence, although I'm equally confident of the Sixers being bottom and the swap not occurring, but that info needed updating

[c3j3h]

I'm verily optimistic as a Sixers fan that Sacramento will be terrible. They lost Bellinelli and Rondo. They will probably trade Gay too. They have another new coach. Right now their Lineup is
Collison/Cousins
Afflalo/McLemore
Barnes/Caspi
Gay/Tolliver/Labissiare
Cousins/WCS/Kufos/Papagiannis
Without Gay they have a big hole in their starting Lineup to go along with a weak PF position, unless they run 2 centers. Their backup pg is a 2nd round rookie, their starter is a career backup. Afflalo is getting older, so is Barnes. Cousins will have to carry them. I think the Sixers should give them a pick for the removal of protection because giving them an impact player will decrease the value of the pick. The Sixers already have two likely lottery picks, Im fine where we are.

Casspi is the starter, and the FO confidence in him spurs Gay's availability (if Gay is dealt, but Gay can potentially work as PF). Collison has started half his career and was fine here as one. Lost Rondo and Belinelli? I don't mind your confidence, although I'm equally confident of the Sixers being bottom and the swap not occurring, but that info needed updating

Casspi has never been the starter, is not best suited for that role, and would only be considered for such a role if Gay is traded and we don't get a SF in return.

[c3j3h]

I don't think the Kings are even allowed to trade the 2017 pick. The rights are already claimed by Chicago and Philly themselves. There would not only have to be significant piece coming back to the Kings, but also a significant piece to Chicago, even if it's allowed.

The only guys Philly has that the Kings would be interested enough in to give up that pick are Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid. Philly isn't giving any of them up, and I doubt Sacramento has any interest in giving up what little right we have to that pick anyway.

[BallinBen]

It's Vlade Divac, you wouldn't need to mention Simmons or Embiid. We got 2 pick swaps, Stauskas, and a 2019 unprotected pick for taking on like 10 million in salary.

[LightTheBeam]

I see Sacramento finishing with a better record than Philly. So I don't see that swap taking place. I don't see Sacramento finishing any better than last year and they will tank the last month to insure they finish 8-10
Philly I think wins 22-28 wins up from 10 last year. Sacramento 28-32 wins. I don't think Gay gets traded until the deadline to a team with an injury.

If Philly wants the 8th pick, I would think Saric and a mid 1st would do it.

They lost Rondo, but Beli stunk last year. Affalo should be an improvement.
Kroeger should be a breth of fresh air after Karl.
and Temple probably plays 12 min at the point.

Cousins and Koufos
Cassipi and WCS
Gay and Barnes/Cassipi
Affalo/Ben/Malachi
collison/Temple

I think the improvement of Affalo over Ben makes up for a lot of what Rondo bought to the kings, never mind a coach that main purpose is not to alienate Cousins as Karl did.

So I'm not sure how you talk about what we did good but assume we actually win between 1-5 games less than last year. I haven't done this in awhile because it becomes something you need to say daily and it's not worth it but I'll tackle it one last time.

#1 - Cousins USA team action will only help him become better as he has each year

Get over name value. Yes we need another pg I will not deny that but there are good ones still available and plenty of time to make trades. Rondo is pure trash, yes he had pretty assist numbers but when it came down to it he's by far the worst defensive pg in the league. Absolutely lazy and goes for steals that puts his man right in the lane and leads to wide open 3s and layups. Belinelli didn't work at all. Ben Mclemore was bad and even he was a big upgrade compared to Belinelli who had maybe 1 good month last year. Afflalo and Temple aren't big names I get that, but they bring 2 big things we needed which is a guard who can play really good defense in Temple and a guard who can create his own shot. Huge upgrade in the back court and like I said we may add a pg.

Coach wise Joerger is a 100x the upgrade of Karl. Karl will never be a head coach in the nba again I promise that. He's trash and I feel bad because he obviously has health problems but the nba has passed him by and clearly he's not willing to adjust. He's never got along with his stars and he won't alter his game plan for anyone even if the whole team doesn't play that style it's his way or the highway. Getting rid of him and Rondo immediately makes Cousins and Gay better players. We can play our system. This is before I mention that Joerger is an excellent coach in his own right and comes from a grit and grind Memphis Team that I think most Kings fans see us heading towards.

Last year WCS wasn't really ready to play coming out. Now he will be our opening day power forward and looked amazing next to Cousins helping defend the paint. We added a stretch 4 who might not do much else but I believe he shot between 4-5 3s per game last year on decent efficiency which is what we've been dying for at that position. Koufos moves back to full time backup center and we never have to see him with Cousins.

Matt Barnes brings in a tough nose veteran whose been to the playoffs a number of times with multiple teams. He's a defender and a very good player in his own right for anyone who watched Memphis last season he was great for Joerger. Casspi has become a legit 3pt threat.

The last point id like to make it just how much of an upgrade Collison is to Rondo. I know Collison has a reputation of being a 6th man and I get it, but I think this year people will see how similar he is to the Teague, Hill, Holidays of the world. The kid can flat out score and is fast as hell. He pressures full court and his game fits great with Cousins and Gay.

Ultimately fit wise the team is leaps and bounds ahead of last year not only roster wise but in coaching. We managed to bring good fits at good prices and bring in youth we didn't have. I see absolutely no way this team doesn't finish with more than 33 wins. They literally quit on Karl the 2nd half of last season. We were 21-21 and then Karl threw Cousins under the bus and changed to style and we lost 9 of the next 11 and that was it for the season.

[BallinBen]

I'm verily optimistic as a Sixers fan that Sacramento will be terrible. They lost Bellinelli and Rondo. They will probably trade Gay too. They have another new coach. Right now their Lineup is
Collison/Cousins
Afflalo/McLemore
Barnes/Caspi
Gay/Tolliver/Labissiare
Cousins/WCS/Kufos/Papagiannis
Without Gay they have a big hole in their starting Lineup to go along with a weak PF position, unless they run 2 centers. Their backup pg is a 2nd round rookie, their starter is a career backup. Afflalo is getting older, so is Barnes. Cousins will have to carry them. I think the Sixers should give them a pick for the removal of protection because giving them an impact player will decrease the value of the pick. The Sixers already have two likely lottery picks, Im fine where we are.

Casspi is the starter, and the FO confidence in him spurs Gay's availability (if Gay is dealt, but Gay can potentially work as PF). Collison has started half his career and was fine here as one. Lost Rondo and Belinelli? I don't mind your confidence, although I'm equally confident of the Sixers being bottom and the swap not occurring, but that info needed updating

Couldn't Collison get suspended for domestic violence? We added Simmons, Embiid, Saric, Bayless, Henderson, and Sergio Rodriguez. I'm willing to bet were better than the Kings this year.

[patman52]

I think there is going to be a new look to the kings not as much personnel wise but system wise. I think that imparts some growing pains. I think Gay gets traded at the deadline and I believe that during the last month of the season the kings are going to have about the same record as a year previously on pace for 33-34 wins, but rather than risk conveying a pick to the bulls they tank the last month and get the 8-10 pick in the draft. I see no reason why the kings want to finish with 36 wins and give the pick to the bulls ranter than 30 wins and keep the pick.

[patman52]

I'm verily optimistic as a Sixers fan that Sacramento will be terrible. They lost Bellinelli and Rondo. They will probably trade Gay too. They have another new coach. Right now their Lineup is
Collison/Cousins
Afflalo/McLemore
Barnes/Caspi
Gay/Tolliver/Labissiare
Cousins/WCS/Kufos/Papagiannis
Without Gay they have a big hole in their starting Lineup to go along with a weak PF position, unless they run 2 centers. Their backup pg is a 2nd round rookie, their starter is a career backup. Afflalo is getting older, so is Barnes. Cousins will have to carry them. I think the Sixers should give them a pick for the removal of protection because giving them an impact player will decrease the value of the pick. The Sixers already have two likely lottery picks, Im fine where we are.

Casspi is the starter, and the FO confidence in him spurs Gay's availability (if Gay is dealt, but Gay can potentially work as PF). Collison has started half his career and was fine here as one. Lost Rondo and Belinelli? I don't mind your confidence, although I'm equally confident of the Sixers being bottom and the swap not occurring, but that info needed updating

Couldn't Collison get suspended for domestic violence? We added Simmons, Embiid, Saric, Bayless, Henderson, and Sergio Rodriguez. I'm willing to bet were better than the Kings this year.

If everything breaks your way. but to me the 76 are deep with players at two positions. I said I thought they would more than double their win total from last year. lets see Saric and Sergio perform in the NBA. How fast does Simmons grow into his role. Who plays center while the other two sit. If Noel sits does he react to the team limiting his rfa value? Can Emblid stay healthy. They are a lot of questions on the team, they are fewer questions on the kings.

[c3j3h]

I think there is going to be a new look to the kings not as much personnel wise but system wise. I think that imparts some growing pains. I think Gay gets traded at the deadline and I believe that during the last month of the season the kings are going to have about the same record as a year previously on pace for 33-34 wins, but rather than risk conveying a pick to the bulls they tank the last month and get the 8-10 pick in the draft. I see no reason why the kings want to finish with 36 wins and give the pick to the bulls ranter than 30 wins and keep the pick.

That's the logical way to view it, but believe it or not the Kings have some fans that are SO desperate that they would actually be happy with that result for some reason.

I'm one of the fans that think the team should just blow it up and start over now, but I doubt there are any Kings fans on RealGM that agree with me.

[Kings2013]

I'm verily optimistic as a Sixers fan that Sacramento will be terrible. They lost Bellinelli and Rondo. They will probably trade Gay too. They have another new coach. Right now their Lineup is
Collison/Cousins
Afflalo/McLemore
Barnes/Caspi
Gay/Tolliver/Labissiare
Cousins/WCS/Kufos/Papagiannis
Without Gay they have a big hole in their starting Lineup to go along with a weak PF position, unless they run 2 centers. Their backup pg is a 2nd round rookie, their starter is a career backup. Afflalo is getting older, so is Barnes. Cousins will have to carry them. I think the Sixers should give them a pick for the removal of protection because giving them an impact player will decrease the value of the pick. The Sixers already have two likely lottery picks, Im fine where we are.

Casspi is the starter, and the FO confidence in him spurs Gay's availability (if Gay is dealt, but Gay can potentially work as PF). Collison has started half his career and was fine here as one. Lost Rondo and Belinelli? I don't mind your confidence, although I'm equally confident of the Sixers being bottom and the swap not occurring, but that info needed updating

Couldn't Collison get suspended for domestic violence? We added Simmons, Embiid, Saric, Bayless, Henderson, and Sergio Rodriguez. I'm willing to bet were better than the Kings this year.

First, please don't insult the franchise with the dumb Divac comment, and especially without having the context of the Kings point of view on that.

Second, the Sixers added a lot of young talent and have the potential to be good down the road but Google current off season power rankings. It takes years sometimes to build that foundation

[patman52]

Casspi is the starter, and the FO confidence in him spurs Gay's availability (if Gay is dealt, but Gay can potentially work as PF). Collison has started half his career and was fine here as one. Lost Rondo and Belinelli? I don't mind your confidence, although I'm equally confident of the Sixers being bottom and the swap not occurring, but that info needed updating

Couldn't Collison get suspended for domestic violence? We added Simmons, Embiid, Saric, Bayless, Henderson, and Sergio Rodriguez. I'm willing to bet were better than the Kings this year.

First, please don't insult the franchise with the dumb Divac comment, and especially without having the context of the Kings point of view on that.

Second, the Sixers added a lot of young talent and have the potential to be good down the road but Google current off season power rankings. It takes years sometimes to build that foundation

What is the kings point of view? It was a terrible move.

[rpa]

Answering the OP:

Seems like a waste for the Sixers to even bring the Bulls in here since, at best, dealing with the Bulls would give them (the Sixers) the 11th pick in the draft. A good pick, but not entirely consequential.

So the real question is: how much would it take for the Kings to convert the pick swap to an outright conveyance?

My guess is that the cost prior to the season starting would be pretty damn high considering the Kings' history and the fact that there's nothing but downside in such a trade. In fact, if I'm the Kings I ask for the 2019 pick back. You want my unprotected pick (well, technically protected 11-30) in this year's great draft? I want my pick back 3 years from.

[c3j3h]

This draft is too important to give up a potential lottery pick to a team that can't solve any serious problems of ours in return. It's not happening.