Greg Monroe to the Knicks 2.0 (Houston-Miami-Milwaukee-New York)

[BBallFreak]

Just curious.. What if it was on draft night 2017? If a team offered a lottery pick and cap space for Goran Dragic and Josh McRoberts, any chance Riley would take it and go into free agency with two MAX cap space slots, two lottery picks, Hassan Whiteside and Justise Winslow?

Depends on how he was during the year, but I'd probably do that. Now Riley might not. He likes things a certain way. This trade, however, is a complete non-starter

The reason I ask is because Dragic did so well under Hornacek and McRoberts seems like the perfect triangle back-up power forward and the Knicks have the cap space to absorb both outright. If the Knicks find themselves in a position where they have the 9th-12th range overall pick (which is pretty much where I have them right now), I could see them making that deal and I could also see Riley taking it if he had a pretty good feel on what he could pull off in free agency.

With the Knicks? Yeesh! That complicates matters some. Ego on both party's might not allow this.

Of course, a larger factor would be the fact that Westbrook is off the market, and it appears Griffin will be as well. I can't see why we'd do this move unless we fell in love with a prospect in that range. That's not a Pat Riley thing to do, save for Lamar Odom...

[puppa bear]

Depends on how he was during the year, but I'd probably do that. Now Riley might not. He likes things a certain way. This trade, however, is a complete non-starter

The reason I ask is because Dragic did so well under Hornacek and McRoberts seems like the perfect triangle back-up power forward and the Knicks have the cap space to absorb both outright. If the Knicks find themselves in a position where they have the 9th-12th range overall pick (which is pretty much where I have them right now), I could see them making that deal and I could also see Riley taking it if he had a pretty good feel on what he could pull off in free agency.

With the Knicks? Yeesh! That complicates matters some. Ego on both party's might not allow this.

Of course, a larger factor would be the fact that Westbrook is off the market, and it appears Griffin will be as well. I can't see why we'd do this move unless we fell in love with a prospect in that range. That's not a Pat Riley thing to do, save for Lamar Odom...

We did well in that range with Winslow, but we can't bank on another player dropping into our lap. I'd say no.
The Knicks being the other team makes it impossible to happen. He teams have a rivalry and that was before Phil took over there!

As stated above, there is going to be a much thinner FA pool with all the extensions being signed, and trading might actually be the best way to grab a superstar (which almost never happens).

[dakomish23]

no thanks from the Knicks. We need Lance Thomas more than we need Greg Monroe

Agreed. Melo will probably play a lot of small ball 4 as I expect KP to get at least 10 mins at C and Noah being limited to around 28. During those stretches, LFT will be the 3. Also I assume Melo will miss at least 10 games this season.

Monroe is a C. That's the last position the Knicks need filled at this point.

The teams who win in this deal is HOU and to a lesser degree MIL

[Rapcity_11]

I don't see how a 30 year old PG coming off a pretty meh season with FOUR years left on a big deal has more value than this.

[BBallFreak]

I don't see how a 30 year old PG coming off a pretty meh season with FOUR years left on a big deal has more value than this.

He got much better as the season went on and really shone in the playoffs. He's also a very low mileage 30 signed to a, relatively speaking, reasonable deal. In exchange we're getting middling prospects and a middling pick. It's a hodgepodge of nothing.

[Rapcity_11]

I don't see how a 30 year old PG coming off a pretty meh season with FOUR years left on a big deal has more value than this.

He got much better as the season went on and really shone in the playoffs. He's also a very low mileage 30 signed to a, relatively speaking, reasonable deal. In exchange we're getting middling prospects and a middling pick. It's a hodgepodge of nothing.

He shone with a 15 PER and 51% TS?

That's the kind of package you get for a middling starting PG. Not saying you should take it, but he doesn't have more value.

[K_chile22]

I think before the Heat trade Dragic they have to see if
1. They are good or not. Their season is really up in the air.
2. Dragic is still good without Wade. Both can go poorly and hurt his trade value alot but that's the risk you take.


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[puppa bear]

I think before the Heat trade Dragic they have to see if
1. They are good or not. Their season is really up in the air.
2. Dragic is still good without Wade. Both can go poorly and hurt his trade value alot but that's the risk you take.


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Dragic will be better without Wade. The offensive structure has to change this season without Wade to be a ball-dominant creator, so Dragic will get more control over when it is pushed and how the ball gets distributed.
Add that to Wade just not being there to soak up the shots and Dragic should see a resurgence. Obviously if he doesn't then it will be harder to move his contract.

I honestly don't see our record as a determining factor in his value. If we're competitive then why would we move him? We'd only be looking to move him for an upgrade somewhere else, or to facilitate a tank.

[K_chile22]

I think before the Heat trade Dragic they have to see if
1. They are good or not. Their season is really up in the air.
2. Dragic is still good without Wade. Both can go poorly and hurt his trade value alot but that's the risk you take.


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I honestly don't see our record as a determining factor in his value. If we're competitive then why would we move him? We'd only be looking to move him for an upgrade somewhere else, or to facilitate a tank.

That's exactly why it matters, if the heat are good there's no reason to trade him. If not why would you keep him for five years keeping your team from getting significantly better


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[puppa bear]

I don't see how a 30 year old PG coming off a pretty meh season with FOUR years left on a big deal has more value than this.

He got much better as the season went on and really shone in the playoffs. He's also a very low mileage 30 signed to a, relatively speaking, reasonable deal. In exchange we're getting middling prospects and a middling pick. It's a hodgepodge of nothing.

He shone with a 15 PER and 51% TS?

That's the kind of package you get for a middling starting PG. Not saying you should take it, but he doesn't have more value.

He looked better in down the stretch & in PO games - issue is he had to take a visible back seats to Wade during the PO. Go watch some of the Toronto series, the whole pace of the game changes when Dragic is told Wade to step back - he becomes a catch & shoot guard.

I'd be interested to see quarter breakdowns of his PER, TS% & other advanced stats like BPM, WS & VORP - I would suspect it would make him look like he falls off a cliff in the 4th...

[Rapcity_11]

He got much better as the season went on and really shone in the playoffs. He's also a very low mileage 30 signed to a, relatively speaking, reasonable deal. In exchange we're getting middling prospects and a middling pick. It's a hodgepodge of nothing.

He shone with a 15 PER and 51% TS?

That's the kind of package you get for a middling starting PG. Not saying you should take it, but he doesn't have more value.

He looked better in down the stretch & in PO games - issue is he had to take a visible back seats to Wade during the PO. Go watch some of the Toronto series, the whole pace of the game changes when Dragic is told Wade to step back - he becomes a catch & shoot guard.

I'd be interested to see quarter breakdowns of his PER, TS% & other advanced stats like BPM, WS & VORP - I would suspect it would make him look like he falls off a cliff in the 4th...

Like I said, he was a 15 PER and 51% TS guy in the playoffs. Not too impressive. Also, not being able to perform next to good wing isn't a good sign for a PG.

He averaged 19/7 per 36 mins on 54% TS with Wade on the bench during the whole season (incl playoffs). So there is some merit to your point.

NBA.com has some of your stat answers btw.

[puppa bear]

I think before the Heat trade Dragic they have to see if
1. They are good or not. Their season is really up in the air.
2. Dragic is still good without Wade. Both can go poorly and hurt his trade value alot but that's the risk you take.


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I honestly don't see our record as a determining factor in his value. If we're competitive then why would we move him? We'd only be looking to move him for an upgrade somewhere else, or to facilitate a tank.

That's exactly why it matters, if the heat are good there's no reason to trade him. If not why would you keep him for five years keeping your team from getting significantly better


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You said "both can go poorly and hurt his value alot", I don't think our record will impact his value, just his availability.

[BBallFreak]

That's the kind of package you get for a middling starting PG. Not saying you should take it, but he doesn't have more value.

No it's not. A middle of the pack starting point guard gets you rotation caliber players or a good prospect, or a nice pick or two. This is nothing. It's literally nothing useful at all. A lottery protected pick from a team that we just made better, and nothing. It just doesn't work. Even if we were rebuilding this wouldn't be a good move. This is the type of trade a poorly run team would make, maybe, but that doesn't make it a fair trade...

[Rapcity_11]

That's the kind of package you get for a middling starting PG. Not saying you should take it, but he doesn't have more value.

No it's not. A middle of the pack starting point guard gets you rotation caliber players or a good prospect, or a nice pick or two. This is nothing. It's literally nothing useful at all. A lottery protected pick from a team that we just made better, and nothing. It just doesn't work. Even if we were rebuilding this wouldn't be a good move. This is the type of trade a poorly run team would make, maybe, but that doesn't make it a fair trade...

A first rounder is a first rounder. It has way more value than you're making it seem like. Especially as the cap has gone up like crazy.

KJ McDaniels is a decent piece as well. Not a stud prospect but he has some value.

You're overrating Dragic's value, just like his "shining" postseason play.

[K_chile22]

I honestly don't see our record as a determining factor in his value. If we're competitive then why would we move him? We'd only be looking to move him for an upgrade somewhere else, or to facilitate a tank.

That's exactly why it matters, if the heat are good there's no reason to trade him. If not why would you keep him for five years keeping your team from getting significantly better


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You said "both can go poorly and hurt his value alot", I don't think our record will impact his value, just his availability.

If the team is bad then Dragic doesn't look as important, or good if he isn't helping that much, and the more a player is seen as available the less likely some team is to overpay


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[puppa bear]

That's the kind of package you get for a middling starting PG. Not saying you should take it, but he doesn't have more value.

No it's not. A middle of the pack starting point guard gets you rotation caliber players or a good prospect, or a nice pick or two. This is nothing. It's literally nothing useful at all. A lottery protected pick from a team that we just made better, and nothing. It just doesn't work. Even if we were rebuilding this wouldn't be a good move. This is the type of trade a poorly run team would make, maybe, but that doesn't make it a fair trade...

A first rounder is a first rounder. It has way more value than you're making it seem like. Especially as the cap has gone up like crazy.

KJ McDaniels is a decent piece as well. Not a stud prospect but he has some value.

You're overrating Dragic's value, just like his "shining" postseason play.

KJ doesn't have as much value for us, we have 3 wings we are developing and a young reclamation project (Waiters). We don't need to put another wing that needs minutes to develop into his potential in this roster.

So it really become a Euro, MCW (about to be a RFA), and a non-lotto 1st for for Dragic. It's not enough to convince us to become a definite rebuilding/tanking) team. We need more to commit to that now.

[jbk1234]

Teams aren't going to sell low on players like Dragic before the season even starts. If the Heat are struggling a couple months into the season, they might consider shipping him off for a package like this but they have zero reason to do so before they've played their first game. Almost no GM feels like they have to move good players at this point in the year.

[Rapcity_11]

No it's not. A middle of the pack starting point guard gets you rotation caliber players or a good prospect, or a nice pick or two. This is nothing. It's literally nothing useful at all. A lottery protected pick from a team that we just made better, and nothing. It just doesn't work. Even if we were rebuilding this wouldn't be a good move. This is the type of trade a poorly run team would make, maybe, but that doesn't make it a fair trade...

A first rounder is a first rounder. It has way more value than you're making it seem like. Especially as the cap has gone up like crazy.

KJ McDaniels is a decent piece as well. Not a stud prospect but he has some value.

You're overrating Dragic's value, just like his "shining" postseason play.

KJ doesn't have as much value for us, we have 3 wings we are developing and a young reclamation project (Waiters). We don't need to put another wing that needs minutes to develop into his potential in this roster.

So it really become a Euro, MCW (about to be a RFA), and a non-lotto 1st for for Dragic. It's not enough to convince us to become a definite rebuilding/tanking) team. We need more to commit to that now.

I'm talking more in a vacuum of what Dragic is worth. As I've already said, I don't think MIA should do it.