KOTB: Phi/Cle A Mo Williams dump

[HartfordWhalers]

"If you believe all teams would accept this trade, vote yes. If you believe otherwise, vote no. Please explain your vote."

Philly out: 2018 Philly 2nd top 55 protected (The thing uses to make a trade legal)
Philly in: Mo Williams ($2,194,500 salary), 700k, 2019 second round draft pick from L.A. Lakers or Minnesota (less favorable)

Cle out: Mo Williams ($2,194,500 salary) 700k cash, 2019 second round draft pick from L.A. Lakers or Minnesota (less favorable)
Cleveland in: 2018 Philly 2nd top 55 protected (The thing uses to make a trade legal)

Why?
Philly gets a 2nd in 2019 that probably won't be all that great (Minnesota). But they do so using 2.2m of cap space they would have to use anyway, and get 700k cash on top of it. So, it is buying a 2nd for 1.5m that they had to spend.

For Cleveland, how much they save will depend on how much JR signs for. But slotting him anywhere from 7-12m, it would save a full 5.5m in repeater taxes and then the 2.2m in salary. So I took off the 700k cash, and it saves 7m.
If JR signs for 14m a year, up the repeater tax another 1m in savings to 8m.

And for those not following, Mo Williams sounds done. Hence the salary dump trade:

However, the Cavs are also highly skeptical that Williams, 33, is planning to return in 2016-17, according to a team source. On Saturday, cleveland.com reported that Williams was strongly considering retirement, according to multiple sources close to him.

The front office has heard the same thing, on numerous occasions, just not from the player. Williams, who battled knee and thumb injuries for much of Cleveland's 2016 title run, will now probably make the full $2.2 million he's owed, unless he reaches a buyout agreement with the Cavs as part of his retirement -- should he choose to end his career after 13 seasons.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/08/cavaliers_choose_not_to_waive.html

[Texas Chuck]

I vote yes.

Philly is still doing Hinkie type deals and if Williams is retiring then this is really smart value for the Cavs.

[BullyKing]

Yes.

It's basically a free second for Philly and Cleveland saves a ton of money at a very low cost.

[FrontPageNews]

Cleveland still has draft picks??

I guess if mo doesn't retire this would be the best move if they really want to save money. But that doesn't seem to be the dan Gilbert way.

[Andre Roberstan]

Yes, I think both would do this.

[Texas Chuck]

Cleveland still has draft picks??

I guess if mo doesn't retire this would be the best move if they really want to save money. But that doesn't seem to be the dan Gilbert way.

Please confirm your official vote. I am assuming this is a no?

[jbk1234]

Before I weigh in - I need one of our more knowledgeable posters to school me a little on retirement and how that counts against the cap. If a player retires after the guarantee date but before the season starts, does that still count against the cap/tax line?

What I suspect is that Mo wouldn't mind hanging out and getting paid on the bench for the first two-thirds of the season and then attempting one last come back. For obvious reasons, the Cavs aren't okay with that. If he's not interested in playing for the majority of the year, they'd trade him to force a retirement.

[HartfordWhalers]

Before I weigh in - I need one of our more knowledgable poster to school me a little on retirement and how that counts against the cap. If a player retires after the guarantee date but before the season starts, does that still count against the cap/tax line?

What I suspect is that Mo wouldn't mind hanging out and getting paid on the bench for the first two-thirds of the season and then attempting one last come back. For obvious reasons, the Cavs aren't okay with that. If he's not interested in playing for the majority of the year, they'd trade him to force a retirement.

They get paid. Tim Duncan for instance is getting his full salary for this year, although SAS stretched it.

{Really far off topic, but I was almost surprised he was salary dumped then which would have been so incredibly weird}

[jbk1234]

Before I weigh in - I need one of our more knowledgable poster to school me a little on retirement and how that counts against the cap. If a player retires after the guarantee date but before the season starts, does that still count against the cap/tax line?

What I suspect is that Mo wouldn't mind hanging out and getting paid on the bench for the first two-thirds of the season and then attempting one last come back. For obvious reasons, the Cavs aren't okay with that. If he's not interested in playing for the majority of the year, they'd trade him to force a retirement.

They get paid. Tim Duncan for instance is getting his full salary for this year, although SAS stretched it.

{Really far off topic, but I was almost surprised he was salary dumped then which would have been so incredibly weird}

It's crazy to me that you have to pay a player who is voluntarily deciding not to play and honor the contract.

[FrontPageNews]

Cleveland still has draft picks??

I guess if mo doesn't retire this would be the best move if they really want to save money. But that doesn't seem to be the dan Gilbert way.

Please confirm your official vote. I am assuming this is a no?

I vote yes.

[HartfordWhalers]

Before I weigh in - I need one of our more knowledgable poster to school me a little on retirement and how that counts against the cap. If a player retires after the guarantee date but before the season starts, does that still count against the cap/tax line?

What I suspect is that Mo wouldn't mind hanging out and getting paid on the bench for the first two-thirds of the season and then attempting one last come back. For obvious reasons, the Cavs aren't okay with that. If he's not interested in playing for the majority of the year, they'd trade him to force a retirement.

They get paid. Tim Duncan for instance is getting his full salary for this year, although SAS stretched it.

{Really far off topic, but I was almost surprised he was salary dumped then which would have been so incredibly weird}

It's crazy to me that you have to pay a player who is voluntarily deciding not to play and honor the contract.

Well, its a touch more complicated than I suggested -- http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q63

But for a guy at retirement age, they in general always get their salary.

Larry Sanders taking roughly half to retire in his prime is the sort of exception that happens because the team does have some leverage. But it also puts it in perspective because you have a guy in his prime walking away and they still get half/

[jbk1234]

I guess I vote yes, but much like with the current election, I really wish there was another choice. If Mo were willing to play this year, he'd actually return a second round pick.

[HartfordWhalers]

I guess I vote yes, but much like with the current election, I really wish there was another choice. If Mo were willing and able to play this year, he'd actually return a second round pick.

I get the sense that he isn't so much able, the body just cannot do it. But yeah, if he were in prime, well end of career prime, Cleveland would just be keeping him for the depth after Delly's departure especially.

[jbk1234]

I guess I vote yes, but much like with the current election, I really wish there was another choice. If Mo were willing and able to play this year, he'd actually return a second round pick.

I get the sense that he isn't so much able, the body just cannot do it. But yeah, if he were in prime, well end of career prime, Cleveland would just be keeping him for the depth after Delly's departure especially.

I'm not sure he's done, done. I suspect that he wants to hang out for half the season, give it a go, and maybe get another ring. But it's obviously not in the Cavs interest to pay the luxury tax and waste a roster spot for a guy who may or may not come back.

[HartfordWhalers]

Phoenix looks to have roster spots open (only brought 17 to camp?), and be ~2m from the floor.

It is too similar of an idea, but put me on record that I like Mo to Phoenix with cash/2nd as an alternative destination than Philly.