NEEDS VOTES: KOTB Entry: SAC-CHI-PHI

[BullyKing]

That Sac 2017 1st is interesting because it could be a high pick but its value is reduced because of the pick swap and being owed to the Bulls if outside the top-10. So let's try and clean everything up.

SAC trades: 2017 1st, Tolliver, McLemore
SAC receives: Mirotic, Grant, CHI 2019 lottery protected 1st (for three years then 2 2nds)

Sac gets a PF to pair for Boogie and concludes that Mirotic is likely to be as good as anybody they will get with their pick but more importantly will be able to help now vs. a draft pick in the quest to keep Boogie. Also get a young PG for the future and a pick in the year their 1st is already going to Philly.

CHI trades: It's rights to SAC 2017 1st, Grant, Mirotic, Snell, 2019 lottery protected 1st (for three years then 2 2nds)
CHI receives: Noel, Thompson, Sergio

Chicago gets a long term solution at center who will pair well with a floor spacing 4 like Portis. Sergio comes in to play backup PG while Thompson gives them a little of what they loss in Moore. Basically giving up Mirotic, a 2019 protected 1st and what is likely to be 2 2nds for Noel and then Grant and Snell for Thompson and Sergio.

PHI trades: Noel, Thompson, Sergio
PHI receives: SAC 2017 1st, Tolliver, McLemore, Snell

Philly gets the high pick they've been asking for Noel while taking a couple of expiring players and eating the 2 million guaranteed next year to Tolliver.

[KF10]

The SAC 2017 1st is a very iffy subject to touch upon -- given what it can and can't be.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the only way the Kings are able to trade the 2017 1st if a) pick is in 1-10 b) after the pick swap with Philly resolves (whether or not Philly want to swap with the Kings), c) moving the SAC 2017 1st will most certainly be on Draft Night.

[BullyKing]

The SAC 2017 1st is a very iffy subject to touch upon -- given what it can and can't be.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the only way the Kings are able to trade the 2017 1st if a) pick is in 1-10 b) after the pick swap with Philly resolves (whether or not Philly want to swap with the Kings), c) moving the SAC 2017 1st will most certainly be on Draft Night.

I think they still keep the pick if it falls outside the top 10 as a result of the pick swap being used because in that instance, its technically Philly's pick not theirs. But in either case they can move it in this trade because all of the parties with an interest in the pick are involved.

[moocow007]

Isn't Sergio Rodriguez projected to be the Sixers starting PG? Jerryd Bayless, the only other guard on the roster that might be remotely able to start at point is really a combo guard 6th/7th man type. This trade would basically force them to start Bayless, who has never averaged more than 3.8apg in a season, at the point and have pretty much no one else but Ben Simmons likely able to pass the ball and have absolutely no one off the bench that can actually manage an offense. This may work if HInkie was still here in order to guarantee a shot at yet another no.1 overall pick but I can't see Colangelo doing this. While I think Colangelo knows that this team won't be able to make the playoffs, I think the goal is still to move forward and try to build a winning team and winning culture. Without a real PG and with Bayless as the starting PG backed up by undrafted free agent Anthony Barber(?), it's a recipe for once again being in discussion for the no.1 overall pick in 2017.

[BullyKing]

Isn't Sergio Rodriguez projected to be the Sixers starting PG? Jerryd Bayless, the only other guard on the roster with any real extended NBA experience is a combo guard 6th/7th man type. This trade would basically force them to start Bayless, who has never averaged more than 3.8apg in a season, at the point and have pretty much no one else but Ben Simmons likely able to pass the ball. This may work if HInkie was still here in order to guarantee a shot at yet another no.1 overall pick but I can't see Colangelo doing this. While I think Colangelo knows that this team won't be able to make the playoffs, I think the goal is still to move forward and try to build a winning team and winning culture. Without a real PG and with Bayless as the starting PG backed up by undrafted free agent Anthony Barber? That's a recipe for once again being in discussion for the no.1 overall pick in 2017.

Brett Brown says he currently expects Bayless to start at the 1. You'll also have Simmons eventually transitioning to play the 1 (as opposed to a point-4) and McConnell is around as well.

[moocow007]

Isn't Sergio Rodriguez projected to be the Sixers starting PG? Jerryd Bayless, the only other guard on the roster with any real extended NBA experience is a combo guard 6th/7th man type. This trade would basically force them to start Bayless, who has never averaged more than 3.8apg in a season, at the point and have pretty much no one else but Ben Simmons likely able to pass the ball. This may work if HInkie was still here in order to guarantee a shot at yet another no.1 overall pick but I can't see Colangelo doing this. While I think Colangelo knows that this team won't be able to make the playoffs, I think the goal is still to move forward and try to build a winning team and winning culture. Without a real PG and with Bayless as the starting PG backed up by undrafted free agent Anthony Barber? That's a recipe for once again being in discussion for the no.1 overall pick in 2017.

Brett Brown says he currently expects Bayless to start at the 1. You'll also have Simmons eventually transitioning to play the 1 (as opposed to a point-4) and McConnell is around as well.

Man that's brutal if true. Ok let me think about this.

[BullyKing]

Isn't Sergio Rodriguez projected to be the Sixers starting PG? Jerryd Bayless, the only other guard on the roster with any real extended NBA experience is a combo guard 6th/7th man type. This trade would basically force them to start Bayless, who has never averaged more than 3.8apg in a season, at the point and have pretty much no one else but Ben Simmons likely able to pass the ball. This may work if HInkie was still here in order to guarantee a shot at yet another no.1 overall pick but I can't see Colangelo doing this. While I think Colangelo knows that this team won't be able to make the playoffs, I think the goal is still to move forward and try to build a winning team and winning culture. Without a real PG and with Bayless as the starting PG backed up by undrafted free agent Anthony Barber? That's a recipe for once again being in discussion for the no.1 overall pick in 2017.

Brett Brown says he currently expects Bayless to start at the 1. You'll also have Simmons eventually transitioning to play the 1 (as opposed to a point-4) and McConnell is around as well.

Man that's brutal if true. Ok let me think about this.

We were starting JaKarr Sampson at the 1 at points last year - baby steps my friend.

[moocow007]

Brett Brown says he currently expects Bayless to start at the 1. You'll also have Simmons eventually transitioning to play the 1 (as opposed to a point-4) and McConnell is around as well.

Man that's brutal if true. Ok let me think about this.

We were starting JaKarr Sampson at the 1 at points last year - baby steps my friend.

Dear god...

OK, I'm good with this

KOTB - Yes

[HartfordWhalers]

That Sac 2017 1st is interesting because it could be a high pick but its value is reduced because of the pick swap and being owed to the Bulls if outside the top-10. So let's try and clean everything up.

SAC trades: 2017 1st, Tolliver, McLemore
SAC receives: Mirotic, Grant, CHI 2019 lottery protected 1st (for three years then 2 2nds)

Sac gets a PF to pair for Boogie and concludes that Mirotic is likely to be as good as anybody they will get with their pick but more importantly will be able to help now vs. a draft pick in the quest to keep Boogie. Also get a young PG for the future and a pick in the year their 1st is already going to Philly.

CHI trades: It's rights to SAC 2017 1st, Grant, Mirotic, Snell, 2019 lottery protected 1st (for three years then 2 2nds)
CHI receives: Noel, Thompson, Sergio

Chicago gets a long term solution at center who will pair well with a floor spacing 4 like Portis. Sergio comes in to play backup PG while Thompson gives them a little of what they loss in Moore. Basically giving up Mirotic, a 2019 protected 1st and what is likely to be 2 2nds for Noel and then Grant and Snell for Thompson and Sergio.

PHI trades: Noel, Thompson, Sergio
PHI receives: SAC 2017 1st, Tolliver, McLemore, Snell

Philly gets the high pick they've been asking for Noel while taking a couple of expiring players and eating the 2 million guaranteed next year to Tolliver.

Interesting trade. I'm thinking on it, but I can see reasons for all teams and its really well thought out.

[HartfordWhalers]

The SAC 2017 1st is a very iffy subject to touch upon -- given what it can and can't be.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the only way the Kings are able to trade the 2017 1st if a) pick is in 1-10 b) after the pick swap with Philly resolves (whether or not Philly want to swap with the Kings), c) moving the SAC 2017 1st will most certainly be on Draft Night.

Outside of this situation, the Kings could trade to any team in the league:

"2017 1st if not conveyed to Chicago and after Philly pick swap."

What that means is if the KIngs finish the lottery 1-10, then Philly gets to swap. And the other team would then get the pick after any swap, so basically: "Worse of Philly and Kings 2017 picks assuming Kings are 1-10 post lottery." Which could even mean a pick at say #14 if Philly swapped a pick there somehow (not likely at all).

However, if the Kings finish the lottery at 11-30, the other team would not get a 1st. And not just in 2017, but ever as Stepien blocks rolling over to 2018 you cannot go 2017 1st, if not 2021 1st. So, it would effectively be something like:

"Worse of Philly and Kings 2017 picks assuming Kings are 1-10 post lottery, if not 3m in cash/ a 2nd rounder."

That is certainly tradable now. However, if the Kings come in 11th after the lottery you just got close to nothing, so it has a lot of variability which makes trades hard. Come the trade deadline it might be a lot easier if the Kings are not looking like Chicago gets the pick at all, but then the Kings would be trading a clear cut top 10 pick.



In this instance, with Chicago and Philly involved it effectively unwinds the previous trades and then does a new trade of the pick.

SAC trades: 2017 1st after swap rights and only if 1-10 post lottery, Tolliver, McLemore
SAC receives: Mirotic, Grant, CHI 2019 lottery protected 1st (for three years then 2 2nds)

CHI trades: It's rights to SAC 2017 1st, Grant, Mirotic, Snell, 2019 lottery protected 1st (for three years then 2 2nds)
CHI receives: Noel, Thompson, Sergio

PHI trades: Noel, Thompson, Sergio, swap rights to Sac 1st if Sac 1st is 1-10
PHI receives: SAC 2017 1st, Tolliver, McLemore, Snell

[HartfordWhalers]

Okay, so I guess I should vote:
Philly basically gets worse of Sac and Philly pick for Noel, with the rest filler (sorry Sergio, McLemore, Snell, Tolliver etc)
I can see that.

Chicago basically trades a lotto protected 1st, Mirotic, (Grant) and the outside chance of a Sac pick 11-30 this year for Noel and Sergio.

With Lopez locked up long term, and Taj a free agent, it feels a touch off. That said, Portis and McDermott if they switch him back to the 4 could be the youth to pair with Noel. I'm okay with it, but Sergio seems on the wrong team here and so does Noel.

Sacramento trades a top 10 pick if they were in that area (and Tolliver) for Mirotic, Jerrian Grant, and a lotto protected 1st
Hmm. I feel like this is good value at 8-9, and obviously really rough value at #2-5.

I keep coming back to why isn't Sergio going to the Kings? It is such a small fix:

Kings out: Mclemore, Tolliver (12m in salary)
Kings in: Sergio, Mirotic (13.8m in salary) {With Grant is 15.4m and still works}

But Sergio strikes me as having more value for Sac now to help stabilize the season (caveat I think little of Grant).

Also:

Chicago out: Grant, Mirotic, Snell (9.8m)
Chicago in: Noel, Thompson, Sergio (13.4m)

This works, they are under the tax but:

Chicago out: Grant, Mirotic, Snell
Chicago in: Noel, Tolliver, Thompson makes some more sense to me, as Tolliver can help fill in for Mirotic.

{I tried to run that without Grant and Thompson, and it failed by $58,324.50}

But this is KOTB. So do all teams do it? I'm not quite ready to yes it, but I'm close. When I bump it next it will probably be a yes.

[jayjaysee]

Since the draft I've tried to figure out a way to turn Lopez, Sac pick, Valentine, and something else into Noel and a small forward (Ariza/Rolo swap...).


For Sac, I don't like bringing in a four that deserves big minutes without sending out on of their bigger rotation guys (KK+Tolliver going out would lead 25-28 minutes for Niko imo of Sac's depth chart) But - I like the value and I really don't think KOTB's need to re-work the entire roster. Sac can do a follow up trade of Kosta after this trade.

For Philly, it's a good pick for Noel. The other players in here don't matter. Ben might have potential left in him, but Hollis does as well.. It might be too good for them as there seems nothing to nitpick?

I don't think Chicago would value Lopez+low-value-pick over Niko. I wish there were Bulls fans to come in and say if the team actually still feels Niko can turn into a consistent version of the good nights of himself.. And I don't really like Sergio for them with Wade/Rondo/Butler, Bayless feels a lot better fit and either should be available from Philly.. I can see them trading Lopez after this for a small forward though so that part doesn't bug me much - just depends in the team still sees Mirotic as a semi-star.

If somehow we get an influx of Bulls fans saying this is wrong for those reasons, I'd vote no. But that's not happening.

I vote yes.

[KF10]

The SAC 2017 1st is a very iffy subject to touch upon -- given what it can and can't be.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the only way the Kings are able to trade the 2017 1st if a) pick is in 1-10 b) after the pick swap with Philly resolves (whether or not Philly want to swap with the Kings), c) moving the SAC 2017 1st will most certainly be on Draft Night.

Outside of this situation, the Kings could trade to any team in the league:

"2017 1st if not conveyed to Chicago and after Philly pick swap."

What that means is if the KIngs finish the lottery 1-10, then Philly gets to swap. And the other team would then get the pick after any swap, so basically: "Worse of Philly and Kings 2017 picks assuming Kings are 1-10 post lottery." Which could even mean a pick at say #14 if Philly swapped a pick there somehow (not likely at all).

However, if the Kings finish the lottery at 11-30, the other team would not get a 1st. And not just in 2017, but ever as Stepien blocks rolling over to 2018 you cannot go 2017 1st, if not 2021 1st. So, it would effectively be something like:

"Worse of Philly and Kings 2017 picks assuming Kings are 1-10 post lottery, if not 3m in cash/ a 2nd rounder."

That is certainly tradable now. However, if the Kings come in 11th after the lottery you just got close to nothing, so it has a lot of variability which makes trades hard. Come the trade deadline it might be a lot easier if the Kings are not looking like Chicago gets the pick at all, but then the Kings would be trading a clear cut top 10 pick.



In this instance, with Chicago and Philly involved it effectively unwinds the previous trades and then does a new trade of the pick.

SAC trades: 2017 1st after swap rights and only if 1-10 post lottery, Tolliver, McLemore
SAC receives: Mirotic, Grant, CHI 2019 lottery protected 1st (for three years then 2 2nds)

CHI trades: It's rights to SAC 2017 1st, Grant, Mirotic, Snell, 2019 lottery protected 1st (for three years then 2 2nds)
CHI receives: Noel, Thompson, Sergio

PHI trades: Noel, Thompson, Sergio, swap rights to Sac 1st if Sac 1st is 1-10
PHI receives: SAC 2017 1st, Tolliver, McLemore, Snell

Thanks for the explanation!

[HartfordWhalers]

...
SAC trades: 2017 1st after swap rights and only if 1-10 post lottery, Tolliver, McLemore
SAC receives: Mirotic, Grant, CHI 2019 lottery protected 1st (for three years then 2 2nds)

Thoughts on if Sac does it? If all teams do it?

Right now its at 2 yes, 0 no.

If you say yes for Sac, I will chime in as a third yes {Even if you no for another team}.

Needs more votes in general people.

[KF10]

...
SAC trades: 2017 1st after swap rights and only if 1-10 post lottery, Tolliver, McLemore
SAC receives: Mirotic, Grant, CHI 2019 lottery protected 1st (for three years then 2 2nds)

Thoughts on if Sac does it? If all teams do it?

Right now its at 2 yes, 0 no.

If you say yes for Sac, I will chime in as a third yes {Even if you no for another team}.

Needs more votes in general people.

For the above scenario:

I wouldn't do it for Sacramento.

I don't like the idea of the Kings giving up a top-10 pick (supposedly the 2017 class is going to be very good) for Mirotic and change.

Mirotic is looking for a new contract in next year's off-season. If Mirotic had more years in his contract, I would think about it. But as of right now, nope.

I take my chances with Tolliver fulfilling his stretch-4 role. I admit that he's nearly not good as Mirotic but the idea of giving a lotto pick for only xx amount of games for Mirotic's play isn't something I look forward to.

[HartfordWhalers]

2 Yes, 1 No, and my vote still hanging in the wind.

Needs some votes.