Rumor (Scotto): Mia/Sac talking Dragic for Gay/Collinson

[sackings916]

If Gay and Collison don't get it done Kings should decline and stand pat

[Jack Dempsey]

yeah dude, expiring contracts used to be trade assets regardless of hte player attached. We aren't in that world anymore. Bad expirings can definitely be negative value.

May I ask why? What has changed?

[Texas Chuck]

yeah dude, expiring contracts used to be trade assets regardless of hte player attached. We aren't in that world anymore. Bad expirings can definitely be negative value.

May I ask why? What has changed?

The biggest change is the new CBA. Used to be plenty of teams willing to pay tax and to stay in the tax year after year. So they would be willing to trade expirings for better players but on bad contracts--essentially buying talent. My Mavs were the team who made the most of this:

pile of junk for Juwan
expiring Juwan for NVE and Lafrentz
expiring NVE for Jamison
expiring Walker for JET and Henderson
expiring Henderson for Van Horn
expiring Laettner for Dampier
expiring Stackhouse for Marion
expiring Howard for Haywood, Tuff Juice, and DeShawn
expiring Dampier for Chandler

And Dallas was in the tax all of those years, but Cuban was willing to pay so teams who wanted to move on from guys were happy to take back expirings.

Now the tax penalties are really severe which means less owners outside of Cleveland are willing to pay and pay and pay. And more directly important: teams have done a much better job managing the cap--a lot less stupid contracts handed out(this past summer notwithstanding) which means fewer teams need the future cap relief an expiring provides plus we have had teams operating well under the cap.

But just this summer we saw the Bulls pay to move Calderon, the Warriors paid to move Bogut, the Mavs paid to move Evans, etc...

[bondom34]

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[gom]

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No surprise to anyone in Miami really. Jackson, by the way, is one of our best local reporters.

This is in response to Alex Kennedy's tweet:

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Rudy Gay still may be moved with that attitude, but not to Miami.

[becorz]

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No surprise to anyone in Miami really. Jackson, by the way, is one of our best local reporters.

This is in response to Alex Kennedy's tweet:

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Rudy Gay still may be moved with that attitude, but not to Miami.

Zach Lowe and I have the same response to the Rudy article today.

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[HartfordWhalers]

Zach Lowe and I have the same response to the Rudy article today.

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Especially after Vivek himself confirmed the meeting happened. Its not like it is 'league sources' that we can doubt, but the owner on the record saying he had to fly in for that meeting.

Vivek really should have just done that interview entirely different. Just stonewall when asked about Gay with a "If we didn't feel fully comfortable in our roster, then our roster would already look different. And feel free to talk to Vlade more on any specifics."

[caliban]

So the dots are; Dragic (MIA) for Gay (SAC), Rubio for Gay (SAC), Payne for Gay (SAC). I'm guessing that SAC with Gay wanting out wants a point-guard in return and doing their best to create a market. It's just guess of course, do not run with this.

What point guard can they get for Gay right now, Mack and Rudy to a 3rd team?

[jayjaysee]

Why not tie Evans in? NO should give Evans for Rudy. Should add some small sweetener imo. Reke is an actual expiring, which was a hang-up itt for a couple pages.

I still like my Reke+protected first for Dragic idea a lot though

[wolves_89]

So the dots are; Dragic (MIA) for Gay (SAC), Rubio for Gay (SAC), Payne for Gay (SAC). I'm guessing that SAC with Gay wanting out wants a point-guard in return and doing their best to create a market. It's just guess of course, do not run with this.

What point guard can they get for Gay right now, Mack and Rudy to a 3rd team?

At this point I don't think the Kings can trade Gay for a PG that would help. The Heat sound like Dragic isn't getting moved unless the team decides to tank. Rubio isn't getting moved until Dunn forces the issue, which based on pre-season play is not happening anytime soon. There is a chance that a starting caliber PG becomes available at the trade deadline, but even if one does become available I doubt half a season of Gay would be anywhere close value-wise.

[BBallFreak]

Why not tie Evans in? NO should give Evans for Rudy. Should add some small sweetener imo. Reke is an actual expiring, which was a hang-up itt for a couple pages.

I still like my Reke+protected first for Dragic idea a lot though

I don't. Does very little for Miami. Seems light on value. Reke isn't a player I'd expect to contribute.

[jayjaysee]

Why not tie Evans in? NO should give Evans for Rudy. Should add some small sweetener imo. Reke is an actual expiring, which was a hang-up itt for a couple pages.

I still like my Reke+protected first for Dragic idea a lot though

I don't. Does very little for Miami. Seems light on value. Reke isn't a player I'd expect to contribute.

If we are to believe this rumor is just bogus - it isn't great value.

If we are to assume Gay+Collison is being considered, Reke and a first would be better.

And if it were a three team deal, with something like Tyreke+Philly2nd for Rudy tied in, that would still be better long term than Rudy+Collison imo.

So I guess, it's up to if you put any weight to the rumor or not. Which clearly you don't anymore.

[BBallFreak]

Why not tie Evans in? NO should give Evans for Rudy. Should add some small sweetener imo. Reke is an actual expiring, which was a hang-up itt for a couple pages.

I still like my Reke+protected first for Dragic idea a lot though

I don't. Does very little for Miami. Seems light on value. Reke isn't a player I'd expect to contribute.

If we are to believe this rumor is just bogus - it isn't great value.

If we are to assume Gay+Collison is being considered, Reke and a first would be better.

And if it were a three team deal, with something like Tyreke+Philly2nd for Rudy tied in, that would still be better long term than Rudy+Collison imo.

So I guess, it's up to if you put any weight to the rumor or not. Which clearly you don't anymore.

No, it has nothing to do with that. It has to do with Riley wanting to rebuild and compete at the same time. You can't sell Reke and a future first to the fans or free agents. You sell a team that's pushing for the playoffs.

[puppa bear]

I don't. Does very little for Miami. Seems light on value. Reke isn't a player I'd expect to contribute.

If we are to believe this rumor is just bogus - it isn't great value.

If we are to assume Gay+Collison is being considered, Reke and a first would be better.

And if it were a three team deal, with something like Tyreke+Philly2nd for Rudy tied in, that would still be better long term than Rudy+Collison imo.

So I guess, it's up to if you put any weight to the rumor or not. Which clearly you don't anymore.

No, it has nothing to do with that. It has to do with Riley wanting to rebuild and compete at the same time. You can't sell Reke and a future first to the fans or free agents. You sell a team that's pushing for the playoffs.

Exactly, Heat had 43 & 47 wins in the seasons before the big-3, so competing is part of how Riley sells the team/franchise to FAs. This year may be a tank year with Bosh out, but I think he'll want to see what he has with the Dragic/Whiteside pairing before breaking it up - there is potential there as a really good 2-3 punch. If that's the case and we just need the 1, then a deal like puts us backwards.

[HartfordWhalers]

Rudy Gay had been in Sacramento barely a year, but he had the franchised figured out.

Marc Stein of ESPN:

An aside on Gay: He’s quoted in an advance copy of George Karl’s forthcoming book “Furious George,” due to be published in January by Harper-Colins, as telling Karl when he met the new Sacramento coach for the first time in February 2015, “Welcome to basketball hell.”

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/10/22/report-when-kings-hired-george-karl-rudy-gay-greeted-him-with-welcome-to-basketball-hell/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter