Boston pushes for a title (offseason w/MEM, CHI, MIL)

[FNQ]

BOS out: BKN 1st 2017, BKN 1st 2018, MEM 1st 2019, Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Tyler Zeller
BOS in: Jimmy Butler, Marc Gasol

Boston cashes in most assets to land 2 stars that instantly propel them into title relevancy.

IT4 / Rozier
Butler /
Crowder / J Brown
Horford / Amir
Gasol / Olynyk

CHI out: Jimmy Butler, Robin Lopez
CHI in: BKN 1st 2017, BKN 1st 2018, Tyler Zeller

Bulls begin their rebuild by trading Butler for a top pick in the draft, a lottery ticket type pick from the Clippers, and a high upside forward in Jaylen Brown. They would presumably draft a guard like Fultz or Ball with the BKN pick, and build a team around current young players Valentine/Portis along with buku capspace. FWIW, I think the BKN 1st 2018 and Jaylen Brown can and should be interchangeable should the Bulls prefer Brown over the 2018 1st.

BKN pick / Payne / Grant
Valentine /
Zipser
Portis /
(C)

MEM out: Marc Gasol
MEM in: Avery Bradley, John Henson, #17, MEM 1st 2019

Memphis goes into rebuild/reload status by selling an aging Gasol for a 1st in this draft, their future 1st which locked up their transaction abilities for 3 years, a good starting SG next to Conley, and a solid rotational big who can start if need be.

Conley / Baldwin / Harrison
Bradley / Daniels
Parsons / Ennis
J Green / D Davis
Henson / Brandan Wright

MIL out: #17, John Henson
MIL in: Marcus Smart, Robin Lopez

Milwaukee trades out of the draft and moves an out-of-favor big man for a more traditional and stable C in Robin Lopez, and also land a defense 1st G. Gives the Bucks the chance to bring Maker in at their own pace, can bench RoLo at any time Maker overtakes him as a superior defender.

Smart / Delly
Middleton / Brogdon / Vaughn
Giannis / Middleton
Jabari / Teletovic / Maker
RoLo / Maker / Hawes


In the end it got too big and out of control, but I'm curious what fans think.. is it close? Salvageable?

[Texas Chuck]

I'll start by saying it feels like the Bucks are stealing value from the deal so if they could be removed it would help. RoLo should have more value than Henson by a fair bit and Smart is worth more than the Bucks 1st this year.

Great value for Chicago--if they won't take that offer then they just don't want to move Jimmy period.

Tough for Memphis. They would need to follow this with a Conley deal or it doesn't make sense and I'd want another team trying to win now to take Bradley and send them more future value. Feels light overall.

For the main team here Boston, I don't mind the price--which is admittedly steep. My biggest concern would be rebounding. Gasol brings a ton to the table here--very good defender, terrific offensive player who fits like a glove, but neither he nor Horford are that strong on the glass.

But other than that weakness that is a strong 2-way club that assuming they can retain Thomas is a strong contender for the next 3-4 years.

[daoneandonly]

Agree with TC, Bucks are getting way too much here. Lopez is easily better than Henson as is Smart and a late teen pick.

[Laerai]

Another vote for Milwaukee getting too much value. How about swapping the Bucks for the Hornets?

CHA out: #11 pick, Miles Plumlee

CHA in: Marcus Smart, Robin Lopez

MEM in: #11, Plumlee, Bradley, MEM 2019.

Memphis gets a better pick. Charlotte has been god awful without Zeller this season, so Lopez would be a big improvement both as a backup and in case of injury. Smart is much better than Ramon Sessions already and is young enough that he can become a starter at some point. They still get really good value though... hard to find anyone in the Top 10 who would trade their pick for a package of Smart/Lopez.

[FNQ]

Another vote for Milwaukee getting too much value. How about swapping the Bucks for the Hornets?

CHA out: #11 pick, Miles Plumlee

CHA in: Marcus Smart, Robin Lopez

MEM in: #11, Plumlee, Bradley, MEM 2019.

Memphis gets a better pick. Charlotte has been god awful without Zeller this season, so Lopez would be a big improvement both as a backup and in case of injury. Smart is much better than Ramon Sessions already and is young enough that he can become a starter at some point. They still get really good value though... hard to find anyone in the Top 10 who would trade their pick for a package of Smart/Lopez.

I like that, very viable IMO. I had trouble finding value to send to Memphis clearly, but I like this better

[Karmaloop]

BOS out: BKN 1st 2017, BKN 1st 2018, MEM 1st 2019, Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Tyler Zeller
BOS in: Jimmy Butler, Marc Gasol

Seems pretty light on Boston going out. BKN '17 1st, Avery Bradley, and Marcus Smart for Jimmy Butler seem relatively fair, maybe throw in the Memphis '19 1st to "balance" it out. But Zeller and the '18 BKN 1st for Marc seems rather light. Think Jaylen Brown needs to be in there at some point.

CHI out: Jimmy Butler, Robin Lopez
CHI in: BKN 1st 2017, BKN 1st 2018, Tyler Zeller

Unless Chicago doesn't want young talent back, I can't imagine they're receiving only the two first round picks. And they're adding in Robin Lopez? I think they'd want a bit more.

MEM out: Marc Gasol
MEM in: Avery Bradley, John Henson, #17, MEM 1st 2019

That's pretty bad. A bad contract and their 1st returned along with Avery Bradley for their franchise player? Not a good package for Marc Gasol.

MIL out: #17, John Henson
MIL in: Marcus Smart, Robin Lopez

Milwaukee swaps #17 for Smart, which is probably good value for them. And then swapping a bad contract in Henson for Robin Lopez. Milwaukee is stealing value.

[FNQ]

Seems pretty light on Boston going out. BKN '17 1st, Avery Bradley, and Marcus Smart for Jimmy Butler seem relatively fair, maybe throw in the Memphis '19 1st to "balance" it out. But Zeller and the '18 BKN 1st for Marc seems rather light. Think Jaylen Brown needs to be in there at some point.

The thing about Marc Gasol is that he's going to be 33 and his rebound rate is rivaling Brook Lopez's, and is due 46m the next 2 years. I dont think he's worth an early lotto pick at this point. I like the CHA add above, where they get the #11 and Bradley (who they can flip if they want).

Unless Chicago doesn't want young talent back, I can't imagine they're receiving only the two first round picks. And they're adding in Robin Lopez? I think they'd want a bit more.

I'm not sure what RoLo's value is, but I tend to value picks quite a bit higher since the new CBA. Especially when one is a top 4 pick (and more likely top 3) in a draft where tier 1 is 3 deep. They could go for young players, which is why I said that Brown could be subbed in for the '18 1st, but if Chicago is looking for a legitimate cornerstone replacement, I think picks are the best way to go. I suppose LA could offer someone like Ingram, but outside of him I don't see many options of teams that have been linked to Butler.

That's pretty bad. A bad contract and their 1st returned along with Avery Bradley for their franchise player? Not a good package for Marc Gasol.

I'm not sure Henson is a bad contract. He's paid like a 6th man big, and I think that's what he is. They get their 1st returned - that's a big deal considering their timeline and current roster construction, a mid 1st, and a player that could probably fetch them another mid 1st if they wanted to go that route. IMO, Gasol is one of those "sell-now" types where I feel like the Grizz will regret hanging on to him past his prime, which I think is about running out currently.

Milwaukee swaps #17 for Smart, which is probably good value for them. And then swapping a bad contract in Henson for Robin Lopez. Milwaukee is stealing value.

Yeah they did well. I'm not huge on Smart, and I think RoLo's value isn't terribly far off from Henson's, but I get that that's probably a minority opinion on both. I like the trade much more subbing this out for the CHA suggestion above, where the Grizz get a worse player than Henson but move up 6 slots in the draft.

[Karmaloop]

The thing about Marc Gasol is that he's going to be 33 and his rebound rate is rivaling Brook Lopez's, and is due 46m the next 2 years. I dont think he's worth an early lotto pick at this point. I like the CHA add above, where they get the #11 and Bradley (who they can flip if they want).

I think the two things that weigh favorably in Gasol's favor are his passing and defense. In both areas, Gasol is a significant upgrade over BLopez in that regard. As for the Nets' 18 pick, I understand the value of having that potential asset in your pocket and would love to have one for the Lakers, but I can't fathom a scenario in which you're building a package for a star with that as the main piece. There's just too much room for variation. We have an idea of where that pick is going to land, but not confidence in where it's going to land. Maybe adding Jaylen Brown is too much, perhaps send him to Chicago and return Memphis '18 pick to Memphis?

I'm not sure what RoLo's value is, but I tend to value picks quite a bit higher since the new CBA. Especially when one is a top 4 pick (and more likely top 3) in a draft where tier 1 is 3 deep. They could go for young players, which is why I said that Brown could be subbed in for the '18 1st, but if Chicago is looking for a legitimate cornerstone replacement, I think picks are the best way to go. I suppose LA could offer someone like Ingram, but outside of him I don't see many options of teams that have been linked to Butler.

I'm basing Chicago's package based off what they reportedly demanded from the Celtics at the deadline which was the Nets '17 pick plus two of Bradley/Smart/Brown. To me, you're falling short of that package by a pretty significant margin. I'd give a slight grade lean towards the Nets pick since the Nets pick is almost assuredly going to be top 3. But then two of Smart/Bradley/Brown is less value for me than the BKN '18 1st because of the unknown. LIS, I think they'd want some young talent back.


I think they're better off separating these two deals. Makes it simpler...

BOS Gets: SF Jimmy Butler
CHI Gets: BKN '17 1st, MIL '17 1st, SF Jaylen Brown
MIL Gets: SG Avery Bradley

And then...

BOS Gets: C Marc Gasol
MEM Gets: BKN '18 1st, MEM '19 1st returned

Or something along those lines.

[Texas Chuck]

Another vote for Milwaukee getting too much value. How about swapping the Bucks for the Hornets?

CHA out: #11 pick, Miles Plumlee

CHA in: Marcus Smart, Robin Lopez

MEM in: #11, Plumlee, Bradley, MEM 2019.

Memphis gets a better pick. Charlotte has been god awful without Zeller this season, so Lopez would be a big improvement both as a backup and in case of injury. Smart is much better than Ramon Sessions already and is young enough that he can become a starter at some point. They still get really good value though... hard to find anyone in the Top 10 who would trade their pick for a package of Smart/Lopez.

I personally find this version too good for Charlotte, but I love that you came here in didn't just criticize the deal but made a real effort to improve on it. This kind of sharing and building upon ideas is exactly what this forum should be about.

Really appreciate the manner and quality of input and hope we continue to see more of you around the trade board.

[DaddyCool19]

How about adding the Lakers instead of Milwaukee?

Maybe something like this:

BOS out: BKN 1st 2017, BKN 1st 2018, MEM 1st 2019, Avery Bradley, Tyler Zeller
BOS in: Jimmy Butler, Marc Gasol

CHI out: Jimmy Butler, Robin Lopez
CHI in: BKN 1st 2017, BKN 1st 2018, Tyler Zeller

MEM out: Marc Gasol
MEM in: Avery Bradley, Zubac, Mozgov, MEM 1st 2019

LAL out: Zubac, Mozgov
LAL in: Lopez


Would the Lakers agree to package Zubac with Mozgov to get rid of him, while receiving a serviceable Center on a decent contract? Would the Celtics add Rozier and send him to the Lakers if they are getting shafted in this deal or would that be too much for Boston?

Memphis once did well with a 2nd round euro big from the Lakers. And if they agree to that deal I guess they could go full tank mode and trade Conley and Bradley afterwards for rebuilding packages.

[RaptorsLife]

I think celtics should keep Jaylen Brown's and picks. Even that team in open not good enough to beat the Warriors

Jalyan brown, fueltz/ball. 2018 pick. Core will be the one give the best shot at a championship

[buckboy]

I'll start by saying it feels like the Bucks are stealing value from the deal so if they could be removed it would help. RoLo should have more value than Henson by a fair bit and Smart is worth more than the Bucks 1st this year.

Great value for Chicago--if they won't take that offer then they just don't want to move Jimmy period.

Tough for Memphis. They would need to follow this with a Conley deal or it doesn't make sense and I'd want another team trying to win now to take Bradley and send them more future value. Feels light overall.

For the main team here Boston, I don't mind the price--which is admittedly steep. My biggest concern would be rebounding. Gasol brings a ton to the table here--very good defender, terrific offensive player who fits like a glove, but neither he nor Horford are that strong on the glass.

But other than that weakness that is a strong 2-way club that assuming they can retain Thomas is a strong contender for the next 3-4 years.

I agree. Please take the Bucks out. Smart is absolutely worthless to us. Clearing henson for lopez would be nice, but I wouldn't do this.

[GimmeDat]

Bulls do it. As for Memphis, not sure that happens, haven't really thought about Gasol and his market, it could make sense to move him, but the deal suggested seems too light for them.

I think RoLo makes sense to Milwaukee. The Bucks seem like one of the best places to move RoLo to.

[jpengland]

Memphis definitely says no.

Bucks also say no as Smart is a terrible fit. Bucks need shooting from their nominal PG next to Giannis.

[FNQ]

Memphis definitely says no.

Bucks also say no as Smart is a terrible fit. Bucks need shooting from their nominal PG next to Giannis.

Re-doing my own DC, I'd actually have Brogdon at PG w/Delly, and use Smart more as a situational defender at the 2 guard spots. I'm not very high on him myself, I think he's a combo guard with excellent defense and limited everywhere else. I didnt see Smart as a big asset, more as a role playing throw in that's likely to seek out a payday.

A few of my non-majority opinions have seeped through in this trade.. I dont value guys like Smart, Rozier, and Jaylen very much from the Celtics end. I have a high opinion on picks, and I point to our past trade deadline as evidence that they have become extremely more valuable than from the prior CBA. And I question whether or not Marc Gasol's value is that of a star on the trade market - I can see him still being an impactful piece but I can't see his value setting the world ablaze, or even matching his on-court impact, because of rebounding, age, and salary concerns.

[FNQ]

The thing about Marc Gasol is that he's going to be 33 and his rebound rate is rivaling Brook Lopez's, and is due 46m the next 2 years. I dont think he's worth an early lotto pick at this point. I like the CHA add above, where they get the #11 and Bradley (who they can flip if they want).

I think the two things that weigh favorably in Gasol's favor are his passing and defense. In both areas, Gasol is a significant upgrade over BLopez in that regard. As for the Nets' 18 pick, I understand the value of having that potential asset in your pocket and would love to have one for the Lakers, but I can't fathom a scenario in which you're building a package for a star with that as the main piece. There's just too much room for variation. We have an idea of where that pick is going to land, but not confidence in where it's going to land. Maybe adding Jaylen Brown is too much, perhaps send him to Chicago and return Memphis '18 pick to Memphis?

Definitely wasn't trying to draw a straight-line comparison of Marc and Brook, only in rebounding. Gasol's rebrate has dropped to an anemic 10.2%, which isn't quite as impressive as Brook's 9.3%, but I just dont hear as much about Marc's issues as I do Brook's. They are both abysmal at rebounding this year and while Brook is more sporadic, Gasol has been trending downwards the past 3 years so I'm more inclined to believe Gasol's rebounding fade is legit. To be fair, Gasol is still scoring semi-efficiently, passing better than ever..

But I'm worried Gasol is going to become more of a slow-down niche C to conclude his career. Now his brother did the same thing, but was able to mask it by repeatedly going to teams that were of the same mindset. The Bulls and Spurs were never uptempo teams, and neither were the Grizz. But with Z-Bo possibly gone, Parsons looking mediocre and wonded, and Conley being the only legitimate above-average player outside of Gasol.. would the Grizzlies look to rebuild? If so, what can they get? I dont think a guaranteed lotto pick, with early lotto potential, is what Gasol's truly worth. There just aren't enough teams that can use him effectively and win. Would need to be a slow-paced team with a rebounding maven at PF.

IMO the Parsons signing was a final swing at contending in their timeline, and it turned out to be a whiff. So all those things are why I put Gasol in there, and why I don't find his trade value to be that high.

[Homerclease]

Boston hangs up the phone on this. There is no rush to deal that 2018 Brooklyn pick, the value on it only goes up as time passes. Trading it for the capable yet aging Gasol is trading that pick for 10 cents on the dollar

[FNQ]

Boston hangs up the phone on this. There is no rush to deal that 2018 Brooklyn pick, the value on it only goes up as time passes. Trading it for the capable yet aging Gasol is trading that pick for 10 cents on the dollar

You'd actually be trading it for Butler here. Essentially those 2 picks, + other assets, turn into 1 prime superstar and 1 aging star and give you a 2-4 year window of being elite, IMO.

[Homerclease]

Boston hangs up the phone on this. There is no rush to deal that 2018 Brooklyn pick, the value on it only goes up as time passes. Trading it for the capable yet aging Gasol is trading that pick for 10 cents on the dollar

You'd actually be trading it for Butler here. Essentially those 2 picks, + other assets, turn into 1 prime superstar and 1 aging star and give you a 2-4 year window of being elite, IMO.

The concept is still the same though. IMO the value on the pick goes up the closer you get to 2018. You're gambling on the fate of Brooklyn of course but the Celtics have been rewarded thus far by being patient. Both nets picks value has increased drastically since two years ago.

[hege53190]

I agree with everyone in this thread. Please cut Milwaukee out. Neither Smart nor RLopez fit and first round picks are to valuable for small market teams.