CHA/NYK - #11 for Willy Hernangomez Plus - 2.0

FutureKnicksGM · Post #1 » by **FutureKnicksGM** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:47 pm

Second (and last) attempt at trying to get #11.

Assumptions:
- Top 10 goes like this (order doesn't really matter) - Fultz/Ball/Jackson/Monk/Tatum/Isaac/DSJ/Fox/Markkanen/Z Collins.
- Knicks have agreed to acquire #26 from POR for taking on Myers Leonard's contract (trade is official once the off season begins, with Myers absorbed into NY's capspace).

Trade to be done once the off season begins (doesn't need cap space, just 17-18 salaries to roll on, and for the aforementioned Leonard trade to occur)

CHA IN: Willy Hernangomez, Lance Thomas, Maurice Ndour, #26

NY IN: Miles Plumlee, #11.

Why for CHA:

They swap there #11 pick for a young rookie center who has already shown he can produce in the league (Per 36 he averaged 16 pts / 13.6 rbds / 1 blk), who is on an amazing contract for the next three years ($1,435,750 / $1,496,500 /$1,557,250) and is probably a better talent than the bigs available in the draft at #11 onward.

Get the #26 which should allow them to add another piece given how deep the draft is. There will be a few guards available at that spot, and you could be looking at the likes of Mitchell, Evans, Dozier etc.

They also move the dead weight of Plumlee, swapping a 3rd string center on an expensive deal for a solid back up SF in Lance who is on a deal less than the MLE moving forward (with the last year on his deal only $1 million guaranteed).
Ndour, who is the clutchest player in NBA history, is thrown in as a filler

Spoiler:

.

Willy/Zeller
Marvin/FrankT
MKG/Lance
Batum/Bellineli/Lamb
Kemba/#26.

Why for NY:

Pretty much move Willy to draft Frank Ntilikina at #11. Take on a bad contract (well two when you consider the Myers trade), but they suck and will help out the tank for the next few years. Build around KP, #7 (DSJ :pray:

) & Frank, and hope to replace Willy in next years draft.

Mystical Apples · Post #2 » by **Mystical Apples** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:54 pm

A deal between CHA-NYK involving Courtney Lee is cheaper and makes CHA better.

FutureKnicksGM · Post #3 » by **FutureKnicksGM** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:03 pm

Mystical Apples wrote:A deal between CHA-NYK involving Courtney Lee is cheaper and makes CHA better.

But you have nothing worth Lee (your obviously not giving up 11 for him).

Mystical Apples · Post #4 » by **Mystical Apples** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:16 pm

FutureKnicksGM wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:A deal between CHA-NYK involving Courtney Lee is cheaper and makes CHA better.

But you have nothing worth Lee (your obviously not giving up 11 for him).

I just linked RPM showing all 3 wings on a similar tier with NYK getting the cheaper/younger wing + #41.

But fair enough, NYK keeps the 32-year-old Lee owed $36M and CHA keeps Lamb and their pick.

Mystical Apples · Post #5 » by **Mystical Apples** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:24 pm

While we're on RPM, you have CHA coughing up #11 even though they already have 2 young centers in the top 20 for RPM Wins.

I like WH but we can probably agree that's overkill for 48 minutes/game.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/WINS/position/9

FutureKnicksGM · Post #6 » by **FutureKnicksGM** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:21 pm

Mystical Apples wrote:While we're on RPM, you have CHA coughing up #11 even though they already have 2 young centers in the top 20 for RPM Wins.

I like WH but we can probably agree that's overkill for 48 minutes/game.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/WINS/position/9

You're the only one on RPM

.

I guess my thinking is that Willy gives you a point of difference, as someone who can score in the post, and he could definitely play along side Zeller and Frank.

I have CHA coughing up #11 because that's what I think Willy is worth, or at least close to it.
Then when you consider that at #11 most people expect you will hit the second tier of bigs as the next best available (Allen, Patton, J Collins), i think it's a fair swap.
Then on top I throw in another first for CHA, and swap Plumlee's contract for Thomas which would be considered a benefit for any team in the league. You obviously disagree, but I simply think CHA is a better team after the trade.

FutureKnicksGM · Post #7 » by **FutureKnicksGM** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:27 pm

Anyone else have any thoughts besides me and apples?

HornetJail · Post #8 » by **HornetJail** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:04 am

I am with Apples on this. It's pretty bad for us. That is a very steep price to pay for WH, who admittedly had a very good rookie season. I would rather attempt to move up in the draft and get a player that will eventually start or be our sixth man than break the asset down into several pieces that probably don't move the needle much.

R-DAWG · Post #9 » by **R-DAWG** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:05 am

FutureKnicksGM wrote:Anyone else have any thoughts besides me and apples?

I don't think your getting a big enough upgrade from Willy at #11 that it's worth 2 albatross, long term contracts. NY already has 1 problem deal to worry about the next 3 years. No need to add 2 more. Your looking at 40% of your cap being tied to 3 players that really shouldn't be in NBA rotations (Noah, Plumlee, Leonard), that's a handcuff you don't want to deal with unless your getting a can't miss prospect.

To the poster who mentioned Lee to CHA - Would CHA do Lee + Willy for #11?

Post #10 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:41 am

Ntilikina is a guy that, if he falls to 11, would keep me from doing this trade. I'd rather have him and our current big depth than do this trade.

They_Them_Hatin · Post #11 » by **They_Them_Hatin** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:49 am

We don't need another center. We need guard or wings that can shoot.

luka27 · Post #12 » by **luka27** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:29 am

There is another angle why this is a bad trade for NYK. Porzingis and WH are very good friends and this could just steer Porzingis in the direction to consider leaving once his contract is finished (taking QO).

NashtyNas · Post #13 » by **NashtyNas** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:44 am

luka27 wrote:There is another angle why this is a bad trade for NYK. Porzingis and WH are very good friends and this could just steer Porzingis in the direction to consider leaving once his contract is finished (taking QO).

Porzingis isn't giving up all that $ to leave, so this is moot. This is really bad for CHA any way you dice it.
I'd rather have Plumlee + 11 over Willy every time.

luka27 · Post #14 » by **luka27** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:36 am

I_Socrates wrote:
luka27 wrote:There is another angle why this is a bad trade for NYK. Porzingis and WH are very good friends and this could just steer Porzingis in the direction to consider leaving once his contract is finished (taking QO).

Porzingis isn't giving up all that $ to leave, so this is moot. This is really bad for CHA any way you dice it.
I'd rather have Plumlee + 11 over Willy every time.

Well I see Plumlee as a big negative on a very bad contract. L. Thomas is also negative contract, but at least he can be cut one year sooner (1 mil guaranteed), plus his contract is roughly 5 mil lower per year. Willy just had a really good rookie season, but his problem is that there are many centers like him in the league and their value is really low right now. But one very important aspect is his contract, which is around 1.5 mil for next three years. So I think all in all it is not such a bad trade offer for Charlotte as you think.

FutureKnicksGM · Post #15 » by **FutureKnicksGM** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:02 am

Alright, swing and a miss.

Zaschrona · Post #16 » by **Zaschrona** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:08 pm

ntsap wrote:We don't need another center. We need guard or wings that can shoot.

#11 for Crowder or Bradley?

Zion Wembanyama · Post #17 » by **Zion Wembanyama** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:13 pm

Charlotte gave up Malachi Richardson for Marco Belinelli, in last years draft, which was the wrong move in hindsight.

I really like Willy G, but I prefer them trying to move up or maximizing that draft pick asset this year. I'm not sure Willy G does that.

Post #18 » by **FNQ** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:23 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Ntilikina is a guy that, if he falls to 11, would keep me from doing this trade. I'd rather have him and our current big depth than do this trade.

Agree entirely. I have no idea how Ntilikina isn't a top 5 pick in this draft. If he fell to you guys at 11.. hell I dunno what I'd do in your case. I like Kemba a lot too, and I'm not sure they co-exist well. But that's a problem that's pretty nice to have IMO. No need to solve it on draft day either.

As far as this trade, I dont think Hernangomez is worth the 11 in this draft, and CHA has enough youthful talent at the C position right now. Since Lee is also talked about here, what about:

Courtney Lee + Hernangomez for Plumlee + #11?

Hornets get a 3+D type plus a quality young big for a bad contract and a lotto pick in a draft where there could be significant potential at the 11. Additionally for the Knicks, there could be a team in the early lotto who misses out on their top guy and is willing to move down, and all of a sudden their package of 7/11 beats the Kings of 8/10.. absorbing Plumlee is a risk sure, but have to assume that cap-space in NYK is not a prime asset, what with Phil's treatment of Melo and his marquee signing last year in Noah

They_Them_Hatin · Post #19 » by **They_Them_Hatin** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:40 pm

Zaschrona wrote:
ntsap wrote:We don't need another center. We need guard or wings that can shoot.

#11 for Crowder or Bradley?

Not a bad offer I'm just in the part of the fan base who wants a real rebuild and not continuing to be on the treadmill because MJ can't take criticism. I really don't think this is the draft to trade lottery picks for solid players.

Post #20 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:59 pm

ntsap wrote:
Zaschrona wrote:
ntsap wrote:We don't need another center. We need guard or wings that can shoot.

#11 for Crowder or Bradley?

Not a bad offer I'm just in the part of the fan base who wants a real rebuild and not continuing to be on the treadmill because MJ can't take criticism. I really don't think this is the draft to trade lottery picks for solid players.

Plus CHA would need to throw in salary.

If Frank is there I want CHA to take him, wouldn't trade the pick.