Philly-Portland: #3 + more for McCollum

[KramerDSP]

Assuming Fultz and Ball are off the board when #3 is up, Philly offers #3, PHI '18 (top-three protected), Okafor, and OKC '20 for CJ McCollum.

Philly does it to get a deadeye shooter whose age fits better with Simmons-Embiid who can space the floor and provide the perimeter scoring punch that is desperately needed. Signing Reddick in free agency then gives Philly a core of McCollum-Reddick-Covington-Simmons-Embiid with Saric as 6th man.

Portland does it to secure the rights to Josh Jackson and to bolster their defense after deciding Lilliard/McCollum doesn't work well together defensively.

Thoughts?

[Waynearchetype]

My initial thought is that (purely value wise) it is a slight overpayment for McCollum (and this is as a PDX fan). I think you could bump up the protection on the 2nd pick and remove the OKC pick if we're talking pure value.

That said, taking into account both front offices, the overpayment may cause PDX to actually think about it. I don't think they would look to trade CJ for rookies without an overpayment since they likely feel CJ/Lillard/Nurk can do decent next year, and CJ is locked up until 2020 unlike most other good players being rumored to get traded.

I love the fit of CJ/Simmons in theory and if he were traded I think PHI is the perfect spot for him.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

Assuming Fultz and Ball are off the board when #3 is up, Philly offers #3, PHI '18 (top-three protected), Okafor, and OKC '20 for CJ McCollum.

Big overpay for CJ in my opinion.

CJ is a 2 guard, not a point guard, and he's terrible defensively. Philly would be better off holding onto the their picks as they're likely to get a better player than CJ by using them.

CJ simply isn't worth that much, like not even close. If Philly offered that deal in the open market, they could probably make a run at Paul George. Let's not forget that CJ isn't even an all-star level talent. He's not even the best player on his team.

If Philly wanted someone similar, they could have Rodney Hood for just the #3 pick (and that would be a big massive for him too).

[Texas Chuck]

If Philly wanted someone similar, they could have Rodney Hood for just the #3 pick (and that would be a big massive for him too).

I like Hood, but he's not on CJ's level as an offensive player. And with one rookie year left he's not worth a top ten pick imo much less #3.

I actually love the idea of CJ for the Sixers and I applaud the OP for coming with a good offer right from the jump understanding it would take something that really got the Blazers attention to get them to consider this.

[Waynearchetype]

Assuming Fultz and Ball are off the board when #3 is up, Philly offers #3, PHI '18 (top-three protected), Okafor, and OKC '20 for CJ McCollum.

Big overpay for CJ in my opinion.

CJ is a 2 guard, not a point guard, and he's terrible defensively. Philly would be better off holding onto the their picks as they're likely to get a better player than CJ by using them.

CJ simply isn't worth that much, like not even close. If Philly offered that deal in the open market, they could probably make a run at Paul George. Let's not forget that CJ isn't even an all-star level talent. He's not even the best player on his team.

If Philly wanted someone similar, they could have Rodney Hood for just the #3 pick (and that would be a big massive for him too).

CJ at the PG position in PHI isn't about his ability to assist his team mates (which he does okay when he is the primary ball handler, it's just that he is rarely in that position). Playing him at PG in PHI allows Simmons to be the primary ball handler and put CJ in a position where he has already shown to be elite at (efficient points).

Rodney Hood isn't really close to CJ in production, I'm not sure why you'd go there even if you're a Utah fan.

[Waynearchetype]

If Philly wanted someone similar, they could have Rodney Hood for just the #3 pick (and that would be a big massive for him too).

I like Hood, but he's not on CJ's level as an offensive player. And with one rookie year left he's not worth a top ten pick imo much less #3.

I actually love the idea of CJ for the Sixers and I applaud the OP for coming with a good offer right from the jump understanding it would take something that really got the Blazers attention to get them to consider this.

Yeah, I love the fit. I think as an alternative PHI ought to be looking to trade back and get Monk if they want a higher risk/reward gamble on youth. I definitely am not a fan of Jackson on PHI. They need a solid shooter in that core to really make the next step forward. Monk might bust and send them back, but he'd keep with PHI rookie gamble culture.

[KramerDSP]

Thanks for the correction. Brown has Simmons penciled in at the 1, and McCollum seems like a great fit at the 2 next to Simmons. Yes, he is poor defensively, but on a team with Simmons, Covington, and the 7'2" Embiid cleaning up his mistakes, I think McCollum wouldn't be a disaster defensively on that team.

The OKC '20 is basically a one shot deal and is top-20 protected. If OKC is 21-30 in that specific year, the pick goes to Philly. Otherwise, it becomes two seconds.

So this trade is really the rights to Josh Jackson, Philly '18 (top three protected), and Okafor, with either a late first or two seconds tacked on.

Okafor has had a rough go but a fresh start at Portland could do wonders. Sixers fans are betting that PHI '18 is severely overvalued by the rest of the league and that we will be a playoff team in the east as early as next season. But having the ping pong combinations just in case is essential when pairing it with the Lakers. God forbid Philly gets two top-three picks in '18 and get both Porter and Doncic

Simmons-McCollum-Doncic-Porter-Embiid
McConnell-Bayless/TLC-Covington-Saric-Holmes

The Sixers would also have the rights to Korkmaz, Phi '19, and Kings '19 (unprotected) in the wings.

[rugbyrugger23]

Let's 3 team this up...

PDX doesn't need a rookie. Enter Butler.

To Bulls: #3 + ? (Bulls get their SF)

To PDX: Butler

To Philly: CJ

Figure out value filler and done.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

Assuming Fultz and Ball are off the board when #3 is up, Philly offers #3, PHI '18 (top-three protected), Okafor, and OKC '20 for CJ McCollum.

Big overpay for CJ in my opinion.

CJ is a 2 guard, not a point guard, and he's terrible defensively. Philly would be better off holding onto the their picks as they're likely to get a better player than CJ by using them.

CJ simply isn't worth that much, like not even close. If Philly offered that deal in the open market, they could probably make a run at Paul George. Let's not forget that CJ isn't even an all-star level talent. He's not even the best player on his team.

If Philly wanted someone similar, they could have Rodney Hood for just the #3 pick (and that would be a big massive for him too).

CJ at the PG position in PHI isn't about his ability to assist his team mates (which he does okay when he is the primary ball handler, it's just that he is rarely in that position). Playing him at PG in PHI allows Simmons to be the primary ball handler and put CJ in a position where he has already shown to be elite at (efficient points).

Rodney Hood isn't really close to CJ in production, I'm not sure why you'd go there even if you're a Utah fan.

Hood is a secondary ball-handler, with questionable defense (although it's better than CJ's) and can get you buckets through either shooting or the mid-range game. I don't see how CJ and Hood are so different...

Also, why is it that people think that players coming off their rookie contract are so invaluable? You realize that it's arguably more valuable to have a player coming in with Hood's contractual position that that of CJ, right? CJ is getting paid A LOT of money that you'll have to deal with immediately. Hood is on super cheap deal for next season and then you control his destiny as he'll become a restricted free agent. Heck, you could even extend him before he hits free agency if you want to. So that's a full season of the player at a massive discount and then you control the contractual destiny of that player moving forward.

Y'all need to readjust your perception of those kinds of contracts, big time.

One last thing, let's me be clear: I'm not saying that Hood has more value than CJ, I'm just pointing out that the OP's first trade proposal was far too good for Portland and that he could get a similar player at much less. Nor am I saying that Hood is worth a top 3 pick (hence me saying that trading a top 3 pick for Hood would be a massive overpay).

[Waynearchetype]

Big overpay for CJ in my opinion.

CJ is a 2 guard, not a point guard, and he's terrible defensively. Philly would be better off holding onto the their picks as they're likely to get a better player than CJ by using them.

CJ simply isn't worth that much, like not even close. If Philly offered that deal in the open market, they could probably make a run at Paul George. Let's not forget that CJ isn't even an all-star level talent. He's not even the best player on his team.

If Philly wanted someone similar, they could have Rodney Hood for just the #3 pick (and that would be a big massive for him too).

CJ at the PG position in PHI isn't about his ability to assist his team mates (which he does okay when he is the primary ball handler, it's just that he is rarely in that position). Playing him at PG in PHI allows Simmons to be the primary ball handler and put CJ in a position where he has already shown to be elite at (efficient points).

Rodney Hood isn't really close to CJ in production, I'm not sure why you'd go there even if you're a Utah fan.

Hood is a secondary ball-handler, with questionable defense (although it's better than CJ's) and can get you buckets through either shooting or the mid-range game. I don't see how CJ and Hood are so different...

Also, why is it that people think that players coming off their rookie contract are so invaluable? You realize that it's arguably more valuable to have a player coming in with Hood's contractual position that that of CJ, right? CJ is getting paid A LOT of money that you'll have to deal with immediately. Hood is on super cheap deal for next season and then you control his destiny as he'll become a restricted free agent. Heck, you could even extend him before he hits free agency if you want to. So that's a full season of the player at a massive discount and then you control the contractual destiny of that player moving forward.

Y'all need to readjust your perception of those kinds of contracts, big time.

One last thing, let's me be clear: I'm not saying that Hood has more value than CJ, I'm just pointing out that the OP's first trade proposal was far too good for Portland and that he could get a similar player at much less. Nor am I saying that Hood is worth a top 3 pick (hence me saying that trading a top 3 pick for Hood would be a massive overpay).

Everyone is telling you they aren't similar players. I'm not sure where you are getting that other than the position they play.
Hood PER 12.4
CJ PER 19.9

Hood TS 52%
CJ TS 58%

Hood PPG 12
CJ PPG 23

[KramerDSP]

Let's 3 team this up...

PDX doesn't need a rookie. Enter Butler.

To Bulls: #3 + ? (Bulls get their SF)

To PDX: Butler

To Philly: CJ

Figure out value filler and done.

Seems like the trick would be figuring out what a trade between McCollum
or Butler would look like. Butler is arguably better right now, but does have more miles, is older, and is locked up for less years than McCollum.

Any chance of it being straight up in theory? If so:

Chicago gives up Jimmy Butler
Chicago gets #3, PHI '18 (top-three protected), Okafor, OKC '20

Portland gives up CJ McCollum
Portland gets Jimmy Butler

Philly gives up #3, PHI '18 (top-three protected), Okafor, OKC '20
Philly gets CJ McCollum

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

CJ at the PG position in PHI isn't about his ability to assist his team mates (which he does okay when he is the primary ball handler, it's just that he is rarely in that position). Playing him at PG in PHI allows Simmons to be the primary ball handler and put CJ in a position where he has already shown to be elite at (efficient points).

Rodney Hood isn't really close to CJ in production, I'm not sure why you'd go there even if you're a Utah fan.

Hood is a secondary ball-handler, with questionable defense (although it's better than CJ's) and can get you buckets through either shooting or the mid-range game. I don't see how CJ and Hood are so different...

Also, why is it that people think that players coming off their rookie contract are so invaluable? You realize that it's arguably more valuable to have a player coming in with Hood's contractual position that that of CJ, right? CJ is getting paid A LOT of money that you'll have to deal with immediately. Hood is on super cheap deal for next season and then you control his destiny as he'll become a restricted free agent. Heck, you could even extend him before he hits free agency if you want to. So that's a full season of the player at a massive discount and then you control the contractual destiny of that player moving forward.

Y'all need to readjust your perception of those kinds of contracts, big time.

One last thing, let's me be clear: I'm not saying that Hood has more value than CJ, I'm just pointing out that the OP's first trade proposal was far too good for Portland and that he could get a similar player at much less. Nor am I saying that Hood is worth a top 3 pick (hence me saying that trading a top 3 pick for Hood would be a massive overpay).

Everyone is telling you they aren't similar players. I'm not sure where you are getting that other than the position they play.
Hood PER 12.4
CJ PER 19.9

Hood TS 52%
CJ TS 58%

Hood PPG 12
CJ PPG 23

Because I'm not talking statistical outputs. I'm talking about the things the two players can do.

Did you even read my post?

Both CJ and Hood are secondary ball handlers. Both are outside shooters. Both are questionable on defense (Hood is probably better). Both can create for others, but not at a high level. Neither of them get to the rim or free-throw line as much as they should. Etc.

They essentially fulfill the same role for their respect teams. In that sense, they're very similar players.

Never once did I say anything about them scoring the same amount of points per game, etc.

[Goldbum]

I would do it. As a Blazer fan I would hate it but I would do it. It fixes our salary disaster, and I believe Crabbe gives you 15to18ppg as a starter.

[Acountant_Z]

I would do it. As a Blazer fan I would hate it but I would do it. It fixes our salary disaster, and I believe Crabbe gives you 15to18ppg as a starter.

CJ!!! not Crabbe. I think your fandom is playing tricks with your mind.

[Soulyss]

Pretty good value, I don't think Portland will trade CJ... but this is the deal (3-way with Butler) that would get it done.

[Ptownsblazin]

I would do it. As a Blazer fan I would hate it but I would do it. It fixes our salary disaster, and I believe Crabbe gives you 15to18ppg as a starter.

CJ!!! not Crabbe. I think your fandom is playing tricks with your mind.

I believe he is stating that trading CJ moves Crabbe into the starting lineup and he thinks Crabbe would improve to a high teens scorer. I don't think his fandom is playing tricks on him I think you might have missed his intent.

[Lovetron Joe]

Let's 3 team this up...

PDX doesn't need a rookie. Enter Butler.

To Bulls: #3 + ? (Bulls get their SF)

To PDX: Butler

To Philly: CJ

Figure out value filler and done.

Seems like the trick would be figuring out what a trade between McCollum
or Butler would look like. Butler is arguably better right now, but does have more miles, is older, and is locked up for less years than McCollum.

Any chance of it being straight up in theory? If so:

Chicago gives up Jimmy Butler
Chicago gets #3, PHI '18 (top-three protected), Okafor, OKC '20

Portland gives up CJ McCollum
Portland gets Jimmy Butler

Philly gives up #3, PHI '18 (top-three protected), Okafor, OKC '20
Philly gets CJ McCollum

Philly cuts out PDX and takes Butler. Butler> CJ.

Simmons, Butler, Saric, Embiid and Covington. Bench Holmes, Bayless, FA, TJ, TLC, Sauce, 4 2nds.

[jpengland]

Massive, massive overpay for McCollum IMO.

If I'm Phoenix and I want a gunner, I trade down to 7 or 8 and take Monk AND get another significant asset in return.

[Blazinaway]

I like the original deal with Por taking the picks and Okafor, Butler I like a lot but he has 2 yrs left while CJ 's 4 yr extension kicks in this summer. Gives POR a ton of flexibility to do other things and their cap problem goes away as well. I'd throw in one of Harkless/Davis/Aminu to get this done and take back Henderson if that helps

[Texas Chuck]

Because I'm not talking statistical outputs. I'm talking about the things the two players can do.

Did you even read my post?

Both CJ and Hood are secondary ball handlers. Both are outside shooters. Both are questionable on defense (Hood is probably better). Both can create for others, but not at a high level. Neither of them get to the rim or free-throw line as much as they should. Etc.

They essentially fulfill the same role for their respect teams. In that sense, they're very similar players.

Never once did I say anything about them scoring the same amount of points per game, etc.

not sure why you are getting angry because people disagree.

They don't even have similar roles. CJ is like a 1b scoring option counted on to produce 20+ efficient points night after night after night on a team that knows it has to outscore teams to win. Hood is asked to come in and be a defensive team's 4th leading scorer either as a starter or as in the playoffs off the bench.

That's really not the same thing at all. Now could Hood be successful if given the opportunity to have a more primary role? yeah maybe he could. But is a team led by Rodney Hood going to be all that strong? Or would it look like Dallas with Harrison Barnes where he kinda proved he could take a larger role, but kinda also showed a team led by him has a very low ceiling.

It just feels like a forced comparison that doesn't fit all that well in terms of value, ability, or role. All offensive first guys aren't actually all that equal, you know?