CLE injects steriods - POR gets serious - NY starts now - MEM rebuilds

[NotPhilJackson]

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Anything in red is an edit that I made based upon the discussions here I agreed with.

CLE OUT
Irving, Love, Thompson, Shumpert, E.Tavares
CLE IN
M. Gasol, Conley, Carmelo, O'Quinn

MEM OUT
M. Gasol, Conley
MEM IN
Frank N, Thompson, Shumpert, Davis, Vonleh, '18 1st POR, '19 1st NYK, '21 1st NYK

POR OUT
Harkless, Davis, Vonleh, POR '18 1st
POR IN
Love

NYK OUT
Frank N, Melo, O'Quinn, NYK '19 1st (protected), NYK '21 1st (protected)
NYK IN
Irving, Harkless, Frye, E.Tavares

Why?

Cavs Conley - Smith - Lebron - Melo - Gasol and a supporting cast of Korver - Calderon - Jefferson - Green - O'Quinn. Need I say more? With Cedi and Felder chillin til they earn minutes. Cavs get older, but they become a much more balanced team of rebounding, assists and most of all defense without sacrificing scoring. Bench improves a bit as well to make up for going older. That squad really competes with GSW.

Grizz Non-competitive with their current lineup. This gives them a PG to build around and THREE first rounders within the next 4 years to use in trades and drafting as they rebuild. They also get Vonleh who was a lotto pick as well. He still has work to do but is young and full of potential. Frank McLemore Parsons Wright Vonleh (Shump) is a solid young team to build around.

Rip City gets a strong big 3 (big 4 if Nurcic is there in your opinion) with a solid defender in Aminu slipping in for Harkless. Shabazz - Crabbe - Turner - Swanigan - Collins along with Leonard (who they can dump later to add another piece) out there provides an interesting mix of young and vet talent to make POR competitive now and in the future.

Knicks get to compete now, and sacrifice tomorrow for the opportunity. Knicks essentially are giving up a lotto pick in Frank & 2 future firsts along with Carmelo to bring in Harkless & Irving. They now look like: Irving - Hardaway - Harkless - KP6 - WHG with Lee coming in as 6th man and Baker - Dotson - Thomas - Kuz - Tavares as the B unit. Frye make salaries work and could act as veteran big. Think that entire roster is 25 and under besides Frye who is expiring and Lee who should be flipped for assets. This team could be dangerous a few years down the line.

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Thoughts?? ...

[Swoosh_Stripes]

The Knicks pass on mortgaging their future for 2 seasons of Kyrie Irving.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[VIPER8382]

I love Gasol and Conley to the Cavs, but would need to see it done without Love going out. Additionally Portland would be cut from this deal, they are stealing value here.

[basketballwacko2]

NYK OUT
Frank N, Melo, Lee, O'Quinn, NYK '19 1st, NYK '21 1st
NYK IN
Irving, Harkless, Frye, E.Tavares

The Knicks send out their new point guard drafted this year, Melo, and 2 #1 picks that seem unprotected. They are one injury and one disgruntled player away from a 20 win season. If Irving decides he doesn't like NYC or KP gets hurt flip it around either way you end up looking like the Nets from their big deal for KG and PIerce.

[NotPhilJackson]

The Knicks pass on mortgaging their future for 2 seasons of Kyrie Irving.

I don't know what makes you think he wouldn't resign with them for the max with that line up. Him & KP would theoretically be the faces of the franchise for the future. Kyrie's home is here, he listed NY as one of four teams he wanted to be traded to. Why do you think that is? Because he wants max dollars from a team of his choosing once his contract expires. Maybe you pass - but I don't think you can definitively say "The Knicks Pass" since I am a Knick fan myself and constructed the trade scenario.

I love Gasol and Conley to the Cavs, but would need to see it done without Love going out. Additionally Portland would be cut from this deal, they are stealing value here.

I see it like this. You can't cut Portland out because then the deal falls apart. Where does Love go? NY, MEM don't want him. Unless you plan on cutting NY out as well and making this a straight up MEM/CLE trade. Which is an entirely different scenario. A scenario that leaves the Cavs worse off than they would be with this deal. Cavs defense would be insane with this S5 and Melo would get 2 playmakers around him in Lebron and Conley. His versatile scoring allows for a lot of options on the coaching end. Lebron & Gasol could make mince meat of the interior with Conley, Lee & Melo all threats from beyond the arc. Crazy good perimeter defense with a Conley - Lee backcourt.

Portland is needed because they would take Love, and they could afford to give up Harkless to the Knicks to make this deal worth New Yorks while. As a die hard NYK fan and a big fan of the youth movement, I am on board with trading away these picks as well as Frank for Kyrie, Harkless & Tavares.

The Knicks send out their new point guard drafted this year, Melo, and 2 #1 picks that seem unprotected. They are one injury and one disgruntled player away from a 20 win season. If Irving decides he doesn't like NYC or KP gets hurt flip it around either way you end up looking like the Nets from their big deal for KG and PIerce.

Knicks trade 2 draft picks neither of which are for this year. Nets dealt more assets for older players. How is this anything like the Nets deal. Nobody said those would be unprotected - unprotected picks dont get flung around the NBA very much. I guess I could of clarified further in my initial post but I figured you could use your imagination to work out a fair protection. If you live your life assuming people will be mad and leave then how are you ever going to build a successful franchise. KP6 is not only on board with a Kyrie acquisition but he stated recently he wants to win in NY because you are a King if you win there. I believe him. He is going around calling people "B". He's a New Yorker now. Kyrie is 25, why would he turn down max money in a huge media market that of which is his home town as a budding superstar with a litany of young talent surrounding him? We trade away a future middle draft pick and a future middle to late 1st round draft pick. I am okay with this as a NYK fan. I can see the concerns but I am willing to take the risk since Kyrie is so young.

[jbk1234]

I don't think it's realistic to expect the Cavs to trade three starters in order to take back older, more expensive, players.

[Swoosh_Stripes]

The Knicks pass on mortgaging their future for 2 seasons of Kyrie Irving.

I don't know what makes you think he wouldn't resign with them for the max with that line up. Him & KP would theoretically be the faces of the franchise for the future. Kyrie's home is here, he listed NY as one of four teams he wanted to be traded to. Why do you think that is? Because he wants max dollars from a team of his choosing once his contract expires. Maybe you pass - but I don't think you can definitively say "The Knicks Pass" since I am a Knick fan myself and constructed the trade scenario.

No, I can't say Knicks would pass but from my pov the Knicks need to pass on this. Kyrie is a great talent but quick fixes is what has plague the Knicks for almost 2 decades and there is no guaranteed that Kyrie would resign with the Knicks.

[NotPhilJackson]

I don't think it's realistic to expect the Cavs to trade three starters in order to take back older, more expensive, players.

Why? I dont understand this logic. They want Lebron to stay. Surrounding Lebron with the likes of Frank N and Josh Jackson is not going to get him to stay. Giving him a title gets him to stay. You give him a real, genuine shot at the title for at least 2 years with this team. This starting 5 is light years better than the 5 they have now even if you leave Kyrie on the roster which we all know now he wont be. It is an incredible defensive upgrade while not hurting the offense in any way. Including an elite big man which will be huge against GSW.

[NotPhilJackson]

The Knicks pass on mortgaging their future for 2 seasons of Kyrie Irving.

I don't know what makes you think he wouldn't resign with them for the max with that line up. Him & KP would theoretically be the faces of the franchise for the future. Kyrie's home is here, he listed NY as one of four teams he wanted to be traded to. Why do you think that is? Because he wants max dollars from a team of his choosing once his contract expires. Maybe you pass - but I don't think you can definitively say "The Knicks Pass" since I am a Knick fan myself and constructed the trade scenario.

No, I can't say Knicks would pass but from my pov the Knicks need to pass on this. Kyrie is a great talent but quick fixes is what has plague the Knicks for almost 2 decades and there is no guaranteed that Kyrie would resign with the Knicks.

Do you change your mind if the picks are 2020 and 2022??? A little bit later on, giving us more room to build around the current roster in the now?

[SARGO127]

Remove one of those firsts and I'm chillen

[Swoosh_Stripes]

I don't know what makes you think he wouldn't resign with them for the max with that line up. Him & KP would theoretically be the faces of the franchise for the future. Kyrie's home is here, he listed NY as one of four teams he wanted to be traded to. Why do you think that is? Because he wants max dollars from a team of his choosing once his contract expires. Maybe you pass - but I don't think you can definitively say "The Knicks Pass" since I am a Knick fan myself and constructed the trade scenario.

No, I can't say Knicks would pass but from my pov the Knicks need to pass on this. Kyrie is a great talent but quick fixes is what has plague the Knicks for almost 2 decades and there is no guaranteed that Kyrie would resign with the Knicks.

Do you change your mind if the picks are 2020 and 2022??? A little bit later on, giving us more room to build around the current roster in the now?

That makes it even worse.

[jbk1234]

I don't think it's realistic to expect the Cavs to trade three starters in order to take back older, more expensive, players.

Why? I dont understand this logic. They want Lebron to stay. Surrounding Lebron with the likes of Frank N and Josh Jackson is not going to get him to stay. Giving him a title gets him to stay. You give him a real, genuine shot at the title for at least 2 years with this team. This starting 5 is light years better than the 5 they have now even if you leave Kyrie on the roster which we all know now he wont be. It is an incredible defensive upgrade while not hurting the offense in any way. Including an elite big man which will be huge against GSW.

They looked a little too old against the Warriors last year. You're making them older and saying they'll have more of a title shot than the team that's been to the Finals three years in a row. Conley I like as a piece in a Kyrie trade but at this point I'm not sold on Gasol being a better fit against the Warriors when they're running out that death lineup for 25 mpg. Don't even get me started on Courtney Lee being this trade. At the end of the day, Cavs probably get swept by the Warriors with that team, LBJ & Melo walk, and we're trying to get value for Conley & Gasol whose value is even lower a year later.

[NotPhilJackson]

No, I can't say Knicks would pass but from my pov the Knicks need to pass on this. Kyrie is a great talent but quick fixes is what has plague the Knicks for almost 2 decades and there is no guaranteed that Kyrie would resign with the Knicks.

Do you change your mind if the picks are 2020 and 2022??? A little bit later on, giving us more room to build around the current roster in the now?

That makes it even worse.

You think we deserve Irving and Harkless for Melo, Frank, and a 1st? Idk about that. 2 picks seem excessive, 1 pick seems inadequate. Especially considering Tavares is not just a throw in, he is a great defender and rebounder. Just needs to be developed.

[NotPhilJackson]

I don't think it's realistic to expect the Cavs to trade three starters in order to take back older, more expensive, players.

Why? I dont understand this logic. They want Lebron to stay. Surrounding Lebron with the likes of Frank N and Josh Jackson is not going to get him to stay. Giving him a title gets him to stay. You give him a real, genuine shot at the title for at least 2 years with this team. This starting 5 is light years better than the 5 they have now even if you leave Kyrie on the roster which we all know now he wont be. It is an incredible defensive upgrade while not hurting the offense in any way. Including an elite big man which will be huge against GSW.

They looked a little too old against the Warriors last year. You're making them older and saying they'll have more of a title shot than the team that's been to the Finals three years in a row. Conley I like as a piece in a Kyrie trade but at this point I'm not sold on Gasol being a better fit against the Warriors when they're running out that death lineup for 25 mpg. Don't even get me started on Courtney Lee being this trade. At the end of the day, Cavs probably get swept by the Warriors with that team, LBJ & Melo walk, and we're trying to get value for Conley & Gasol whose value is even lower a year later.

I really need a better explanation as to how you think the Cavs do worse in the finals with this team than with last years team. Otherwise I cant even entertain this convo with you anymore.
Gasol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thompson - He'd dominate in a small ball lineup and against a small ball lineup and is an excellent passer. Conley and Lee can make Steph & Klay's jobs much harder than Kyrie and Jr Smith. Lebron and Melo are just a god damn problem at the forwards spots. Especially considering chemistry and versatility with them 2. KD & Dray are gonna be a bit more tired when they got the ball in their hands. I really don't see how you think this team does WORSE. Cause of their engine?? They get an improved bench with this trade as well.

[jbk1234]

Why? I dont understand this logic. They want Lebron to stay. Surrounding Lebron with the likes of Frank N and Josh Jackson is not going to get him to stay. Giving him a title gets him to stay. You give him a real, genuine shot at the title for at least 2 years with this team. This starting 5 is light years better than the 5 they have now even if you leave Kyrie on the roster which we all know now he wont be. It is an incredible defensive upgrade while not hurting the offense in any way. Including an elite big man which will be huge against GSW.

They looked a little too old against the Warriors last year. You're making them older and saying they'll have more of a title shot than the team that's been to the Finals three years in a row. Conley I like as a piece in a Kyrie trade but at this point I'm not sold on Gasol being a better fit against the Warriors when they're running out that death lineup for 25 mpg. Don't even get me started on Courtney Lee being this trade. At the end of the day, Cavs probably get swept by the Warriors with that team, LBJ & Melo walk, and we're trying to get value for Conley & Gasol whose value is even lower a year later.

I really need a better explanation as to how you think the Cavs do worse in the finals with this team than with last years team. Otherwise I cant even entertain this convo with you anymore.
Gasol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thompson - He'd dominate in a small ball lineup and against a small ball lineup and is an excellent passer. Conley and Lee can make Steph & Klay's jobs much harder than Kyrie and Jr Smith. Lebron and Melo are just a god damn problem at the forwards spots. Especially considering chemistry and versatility with them 2. KD & Dray are gonna be a bit more tired when they got the ball in their hands. I really don't see how you think this team does WORSE. Cause of their engine?? They get an improved bench with this trade as well.

Rather than have some debate about whether Lee has positive value on his contract, lets just take him out. Suffice to say, Cavs don't want him. Tavares isn't a throw in. Take him out as well.

As far as Gasol, Warriors run a lot of PNR out at the three point line and you've got to show. That leaves LBJ & Melo as your *rim protectors* behind him, helping off of other shooters. You're asking Gasol to then rotate back to cover those shooters. Warriors play at an insane pace which is going to make it hard for Gasol to play major minutes.

Warriors are going to front him with guys like Green & Durant on defense and that passing window is narrow. As Gasol has been getting older, he's been shooting more from the outside as well AND people get hacked in the Finals in the post and the officials swallow their whistles. I'm skeptical that he improves the Cavs chances, and given his contract, that's a huge risk to take.

[NotPhilJackson]

They looked a little too old against the Warriors last year. You're making them older and saying they'll have more of a title shot than the team that's been to the Finals three years in a row. Conley I like as a piece in a Kyrie trade but at this point I'm not sold on Gasol being a better fit against the Warriors when they're running out that death lineup for 25 mpg. Don't even get me started on Courtney Lee being this trade. At the end of the day, Cavs probably get swept by the Warriors with that team, LBJ & Melo walk, and we're trying to get value for Conley & Gasol whose value is even lower a year later.

I really need a better explanation as to how you think the Cavs do worse in the finals with this team than with last years team. Otherwise I cant even entertain this convo with you anymore.
Gasol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thompson - He'd dominate in a small ball lineup and against a small ball lineup and is an excellent passer. Conley and Lee can make Steph & Klay's jobs much harder than Kyrie and Jr Smith. Lebron and Melo are just a god damn problem at the forwards spots. Especially considering chemistry and versatility with them 2. KD & Dray are gonna be a bit more tired when they got the ball in their hands. I really don't see how you think this team does WORSE. Cause of their engine?? They get an improved bench with this trade as well.

Rather than have some debate about whether Lee has positive value on his contract, lets just take him out. Suffice to say, Cavs don't want him. Tavares isn't a throw in. Take him out as well.

As far as Gasol, Warriors run a lot of PNR out at the three point line and you've got to show. That leaves LBJ & Melo as your *rim protectors* behind him, helping off of other shooters. You're asking Gasol to then rotate back to cover those shooters. Warriors play at an insane pace which is going to make it hard for Gasol to play major minutes.

Warriors are going to front him with guys like Green & Durant on defense and that passing window is narrow. As Gasol has been getting older, he's been shooting more from the outside as well AND people get hacked in the Finals in the post and the officials swallow their whistles. I'm skeptical that he improves the Cavs chances, and given his contract, that's a huge risk to take.

Lee is coming off a career year and is an upgrade to Shumpert in part due to his more efficient AND consistent offensive capabilities. He improves the starting line up defensively because he is a better defender and more efficient shooter than JR Smith as well. Lee's contract is virtually a wash with Shumps, but you get more value with Lee. Tavares is not a throw in, that's right. He is part of the reason Knicks are giving up so much to get this deal done. He stays. You are taking the Cavs into a Top 3 defensive team next year. I could think worse forwards by the way backing up your center than Lebron & Melo down low. They are both physical players and Lebron is a plus defender for sure. They are going to massively out-rebound the Warriors team.

[VCfor3]

The knicks picks would have some protections on them I assume. Otherwise they are probably giving up a little too much. With protections it's a pretty fair deal for them. Portland needs to give up more. Looking at what it cost people to clear salary, Leonard and the first are at best minimally positive value. It's basically Harkless for Love. They need to add a little more value and probably send it to Memphis.

[Soulyss]

I keep trying to find a reason for these teams to say no...

Portland is an yes, NY should be a yes, Kyrie & The Unicorn is a dynamic pairing. Cleveland makes sense... Melo, Gasol, Conley + Lebron is a dynamic offensive and defensive team.... I think it gets Lebron and Melo to re-up through the Conley and Gasol contracts..

I think the sticking point is Memphis. This is a full-blown rebuild... They aren't a championship contender as constructed, but they are probably a playoff team if healthy... it might be too tough a pill to swallow... but if you are going to do a rebuild, this is how you start it.

you can probably nit-pick on picks, add a second here and there, etc... but OP... BRAVO.. this is a damn fine trade.

[NotPhilJackson]

The knicks picks would have some protections on them I assume. Otherwise they are probably giving up a little too much. With protections it's a pretty fair deal for them. Portland needs to give up more. Looking at what it cost people to clear salary, Leonard and the first are at best minimally positive value. It's basically Harkless for Love. They need to add a little more value and probably send it to Memphis.

I've updated the original post to match your reasonable suggestions. Sent Vonleh to Memphis. Threw protections on the NYK 1sts since that didnt seem clear to some people that of course they would be protected. I think it is shaping up to be a nice trade. Thanks for your input man.

[NotPhilJackson]

I keep trying to find a reason for these teams to say no...

...you can probably nit-pick on picks, add a second here and there, etc... but OP... BRAVO.. this is a damn fine trade.

Thank you sir. I did listen to another posters suggestion and add Vonleh to Memphis since POR was getting away pretty cheap for Love considering Leonard's ugly contract. Hopefully that doesn't change your mind. I see you are a Blazer fan, haha