PHX/ MIL Trade

[SideSwipe]

PHX trades:

Diaw, Barbosa and Tucker
for
Villanueva, Mason, Gadzuric and Alexander

PHX:
Nash/ Sessions/ Strawberry
Bell/ Mason/ FA (Pietrus?)
Hill/Alexander/ FA (Barnes?)
Stoudemire/ Villanueva/ FA
Shaq/ Lopez/ Gadzuric

MIL:
Williams/ Bell/ FA
Redd/ Barbosa/ Tucker
Jefferson/ FA (Delfino?)/ Storey
Diaw/ FA (K. Brown; M. Ely)
Bogut/ FA (Magloire?)

Phx has a few needs and getting back bench depth at the 1,2,3 and 4 positions will be just what the doctor ordered. It adds youth and athleticism while also clearing up even more cap space for the '10 FA class after Nash and Shaq come off the books. This also adds some of the players that Porter coached in his days with Milwaukee. Gads had his most successful year under Porter, as did Desmond Mason. Phoenix also gets tremendous athelticism, speed and potential in Alexander. Phoenix accomplilshes all goals here, I think. Cap Space, Bench Depth, and help at the 1-4 positions.

Mil goes from being terrible last year into immediate contenders for a top 4 Eastern Conference playff seed, thanks to some smart GM play. The starting 5 would be very good compared to other Eastern conference teams, possibly only bested by Boston, Detroit, and the Cavs, and probably on par with Orlando. It gives them strength and versatility, along with great scoring power from the first and second units. Mil gives up some depth to get 8 strong rotation players, that will be smart enough to buy into Skiles new defensive regime and still have enough scoring punch to do some real damage in the Eastern Conference for several years. Back-ups at the 4 and 5 would need to be addressed through free-agency, as well as a backup 3, but there are several available that might fit the bill, and the strength in the starting lineup may make up for some bench deficiency.

Let me know what you think here. If you don't like it for either side, give me a suggestion for what you think it would take to make it work. Thanks.

[Baddy Chuck]

Cant see it happening. Neither Diaw or Barbosa are great on defense (Diaws average I guees) and having Barbosa, Williams and Redd on the same team makes me shiver.

[SideSwipe]

Any thoughts on how to structure a different deal with the same teams for similar players. Joe Alexander is a must for Phoenix to get back in this deal. Charlie V may be as well. Others are optional. Also, Barbosa is an underated deefnder, and Diaw is actually quite a good one. Certainly not what you are saying. And the Bucks are sieve's right now anyway. They might as well gain some versatility for the package.

I would consider including swapping Bells for both teams to take a look at evening it up if you think MIL gives too much up. That would add significantly to the defense, though it would change PHX's FA plans a little. Let me know if htat is a better match for MIL

[Ruzious]

Cant see it happening. Neither Diaw or Barbosa are great on defense (Diaws average I guees) and having Barbosa, Williams and Redd on the same team makes me shiver.

I'm not sure whether or not I'd make the trade for Milwaukee, but Diaw and Barbosa would upgrade the Bucks defense - especially their transition defense.

[Stix]

Diaw + Tucker for Sessions + CV + Mason

[skones]

Diaw + Tucker for Sessions + CV + Mason

That's just awful.

[nba_addict]

How about Barbosa for CV and Sessions?

[trwi7]

How about Barbosa for CV and Sessions?

How about no?

[SideSwipe]

Just to clarify, the modified deal I'm looking at is as follows:
PHX trades:
Diaw, Barbosa, Bell and Tucker
MIL trades:
Mason, CV, Sessions, Bell and Alexander

PHX
Nash/ Sessions/ Strawberry
Mason/ Bell/ FA (Pietrus)
Hill/ Alexander/ FA (Barnes)
Stoudemire/ CV/ FA
Shaq/ Lopez/ FA

MIL
Williams/ Barbosa
Redd/ Bell/ Storey
Jefferson/ Tucker
Diaw/ FA (Thomas/Ely)
Bogut/ FA (Diop/ Magloire)

Phoenix adds mor to the deal on this version by adding Raja Bell's 3 point-shooting and tremendous defense. PHX gets back a combo guard to replace some of what was lost by losing Barbosa. Hopefully MIL fans find that brings them the value they are looking for. PHX fans chime in here. My goal here is a package including CV and Alexander, so if there are other packages that might return that including combos's of future picks and/or cash lets take a look at it. Thanks.

[rsavaj]

As a Suns fan I'd do the original deal, but PHX can't afford to lose Raja.

[trwi7]

Just to clarify, the modified deal I'm looking at is as follows:
PHX trades:
Diaw, Barbosa, Bell and Tucker
MIL trades:
Mason, CV, Sessions, Bell and Alexander

PHX
Nash/ Sessions/ Strawberry
Mason/ Bell/ FA (Pietrus)
Hill/ Alexander/ FA (Barnes)
Stoudemire/ CV/ FA
Shaq/ Lopez/ FA

MIL
Williams/ Barbosa
Redd/ Bell/ Storey
Jefferson/ Tucker
Diaw/ FA (Thomas/Ely)
Bogut/ FA (Diop/ Magloire)

Phoenix adds mor to the deal on this version by adding Raja Bell's 3 point-shooting and tremendous defense. PHX gets back a combo guard to replace some of what was lost by losing Barbosa. Hopefully MIL fans find that brings them the value they are looking for. PHX fans chime in here. My goal here is a package including CV and Alexander, so if there are other packages that might return that including combos's of future picks and/or cash lets take a look at it. Thanks.

Why the hell do we need Barbosa? He and Williams are redundant. No to this trade.

[jlove_26]

Why the hell do we need Barbosa? He and Williams are redundant. No to this trade.

Then throw Mo in the deal.

Mo, V, Bell, Alexander for Barbosa/Diaw/Tucker

[trwi7]

Why the hell do we need Barbosa? He and Williams are redundant. No to this trade.

Then throw Mo in the deal.

Mo, V, Bell, Alexander for Barbosa/Diaw/Tucker

Are you kidding? At best Barbosa is a little better than Mo. No way we throw in our lottery pick, our young PF and a decent bench player for an overpaid Diaw and Tucker.

[skones]

Why the hell do we need Barbosa? He and Williams are redundant. No to this trade.

Then throw Mo in the deal.

Mo, V, Bell, Alexander for Barbosa/Diaw/Tucker

Because Mo and Barbosa would be redundant on the same team your plan is to have us include Mo with nothing added? GENIUS.

I guess you haven't met my friend common sense yet.------>

[SideSwipe]

The answer to the question between Mo and Brbosa lies in MIL getting real bench depth that is battle-proven. Barbosa can put up legit numbers as a 6th man and is capable of 20+ point nihts as a starter. That means that when Mo goes to the bench for a rest Barbosa is right there, and there is not drop off in points production. I actually don't think they are very similar players. Mo is active with the ball in hins hand, where Barbosa can be effective off the abll or with the ball-not tryint to say he is a pure point guard, but he is effective at both.

Also, remember Diaw has starter's skill level and is very crafty at creating offense for others . Also, when he starts he tends to defer less to others, especially if he has room to operate on the high or low block. All that and he can the the 2-4 positions pretty effectively, and the 5 in spots . And he is battle proven. Say what you will about Diaw, but he always ups his game in the playoffs. Does MIL remember what the playoffs are like? If you trade for Barbosa and Diaw, you will.

CALIRIFICATION- Going back to my original post I included one too many players. For purposes of this trade Dan Gadzuric needs to be included in any discussions due to 125% rules, I think. Taking on his salary was one of the pieces of the trade that was going to help compensate MIL for taking back the excessive salary of DIaw.

[Stix]

Diaw for CV + Gadz + Sessions ?

[trwi7]

Diaw for CV + Gadz + Sessions ?

That's awful. We don't want Boris freaking Diaw.

[skones]

The answer to the question between Mo and Brbosa lies in MIL getting real bench depth that is battle-proven. Barbosa can put up legit numbers as a 6th man and is capable of 20+ point nihts as a starter. That means that when Mo goes to the bench for a rest Barbosa is right there, and there is not drop off in points production. I actually don't think they are very similar players. Mo is active with the ball in hins hand, where Barbosa can be effective off the abll or with the ball-not tryint to say he is a pure point guard, but he is effective at both.

Also, remember Diaw has starter's skill level and is very crafty at creating offense for others . Also, when he starts he tends to defer less to others, especially if he has room to operate on the high or low block. All that and he can the the 2-4 positions pretty effectively, and the 5 in spots . And he is battle proven. Say what you will about Diaw, but he always ups his game in the playoffs. Does MIL remember what the playoffs are like? If you trade for Barbosa and Diaw, you will.

Barbosa and Diaw will suddenly get us into the playoffs? That's a sure thing? Spare me. Barbosa and Mo are redundant and I'll tell you why. Sure Barbosa will provide an offensive spark off the bench. I completely agree with that sentiment, but he is much more effective in Phoenix than he would be in Milwaukee. Neither Mo Williams or Barbosa are able to get others involved and run a team. With both on the roster you have 14 million dollars tied up in two guys who essentially do the same thing without having a solution at the point guard position.

Diaw has done nothing since signing his contract that would lead anyone to believe he could be completely affective as a full time starting power forward. I wouldn't have dealt the 8th pick before we made our selection for Barbosa and I wouldn't have dealt Gadzuric, Villanueva, and Mason for Diaw and Tucker. It's really as simple as that.

If Diaw isn't able to produce at a high level, you could make an argument that he's worse for the Bucks long term than Gadzuric might be given that Diaw is owed 36 million over the next 4 seasons compared to the 20 million thats owed to Gadzuric over the next 3 seasons.

[SideSwipe]

In answer to the last question, adding Boris and Barbosa won't get MIL to Milwaukee on their own, but they fit the team better than you can see. To say that Gadz is better than Diaw is absolute bullocks. You guys need exactly what those two in particular provide. TRWI7 and SKONES are a bit homeristic in their thinking, and probably need to review the numbers a little bit. Take a look:

in the playoffs Boris averaged 15 points 5.5 boards and 4.5 assists on 54% shooting. In the playoffs. In the regular season his numbers were lower than that, but it is about finding the right situation for Boris, and in the right situation he rises. He is a little too complacent and defers to others with his passing, but the guy is EXTREMELY skilled with a very high basketball IQ, something MIL does not have right now. Jefferson may be the closest to it, followed by Bogut, but neither of them have the basketball IQ of Diaw. Everyone else is pretty one-dimensional on the team.

Barbosa is more one-dimensional but is a HUGE asset. Mo is not nearly as fast as Barbosa or as long. He also doesn't get to the basket nearly as effectively as Barbosa. MIL doesn't have anyone right now who can put that kind of pressure on a defense other than recent acquisition Jefferson. Mo is a better mid-range shooter, and it's a wash from the 3-point line. While they are definite similarities between the two, they are still pretty different in their styles. Also, with a better supporting cast, I would not be surprised to see Mo get his assists average back up again, and have his scoring go back down slightly. Either that or you guys try to trade for someone who's a great PG, but I just don't see anyone out there who will fit that bill that would be available for the assets that MIL is willing to part with. Show me what you guys think would be a better realistic deal that would match MIL's goals. Let's take a look. It's quite possible there is one out there, see if you can show me. Thanks.

[trwi7]

TRWI7 and SKONES are a bit homeristic in their thinking, and probably need to review the numbers a little bit. Take a look:

in the playoffs Boris averaged 15 points 5.5 boards and 4.5 assists on 54% shooting. In the playoffs.

We're homeristic because we don't want to give up a lottery pick, Mo, CV and Bell for another Mo, Diaw and Tucker? You are the one who is a homer.

And you can talk about Diaw's playoff stats all you want. I can talk about his playoff stats from the year before when he averaged 6.6 points, 3.2 rebounds and 3 assists in 23:30.

Go find somebody else to take on Diaw's crappy contract because we don't want it.