DET - GS (4 Player Trade)

RTM · Post #1 » by **RTM** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:07 am

2 Variations:

#1
DET GETS: Anthony Randolph, Marcus Williams
GS GETS: Amir Johnson, Will Bynum

#2
DET GETS: Anthony Randolph, Kelenna Azibuike
GS GETS: Amir Johnson, Arron Afflalo

I would be willing to trade Minnesota's 2nd round pick in either deal.

WHY?

GS gets a young talent with good upside (and some experience under his belt) in Amir, who after starting, is now out of our rotation for reasons unknown, and may never get a fair chance in Detroit. Analysts say he would have been a lotto pick had he spent a season or two in college. He has a much better chance of breaking out elsewhere. In the first scenario, they swap the useless Williams for an surprisingly good scoring PG in Bynum, and in the second scenario, they trade offense for a defensive ace who can hit some shots.

For DET, I like the AJ for Randolph swap, because he's a guy who I feel doesn't need PT to develop as bad right now. He can play either forward slot, and is oozing with talent (some say he's the next Magic Johnson!). But seriously, he has the athleticism, skills and young legs that Joe is bound to love. In the first deal, we swap Bynum for Williams just to make the deal better for GS. In the 2nd deal, we trade AA for another serviceable backup guard, who can provide more of a scoring punch.

Thoughts?

turk3d · Post #2 » by **turk3d** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:28 am

Yeah, it sucks. Randolph is not for sale. Those reports were bogus. Wouldn't trade him for all 3 players combined in your two deals + your number 1 unprotected pick. You'll have to do way better than that. You can make us a deal for Williams and/or Maggette if you like.

Liqourish · Post #3 » by **Liqourish** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:37 am

Wait a minute, Detroit gives up Amir for players Nellie is telling to leave AND Detroit is willing to give up picks? not a chance in hell.

Word of advice, Buike is trash, not even Warrior fans like him. I wouldn't give up Afflalo for Buike straight up.

I have no problem trading away Amir and/or Afflalo, but not for players Golden State can't trade away.

RTM · Post #4 » by **RTM** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:05 am

Pretty much what I expected from both fan bases. Anyone care to give an outside perspective?

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #5 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:06 am

turk3d wrote:Yeah, it sucks. Randolph is not for sale. Those reports were bogus. Wouldn't trade him for all 3 players combined in your two deals + your number 1 unprotected pick. You'll have to do way better than that. You can make us a deal for Williams and/or Maggette if you like.

What makes you say it is bogus? Has anyone from the Warriors commented on it, or are you just assuming?

NW · Post #6 » by NW » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:54 am

DGrangeRx33 wrote:
turk3d wrote:Yeah, it sucks. Randolph is not for sale. Those reports were bogus. Wouldn't trade him for all 3 players combined in your two deals + your number 1 unprotected pick. You'll have to do way better than that. You can make us a deal for Williams and/or Maggette if you like.

What makes you say it is bogus? Has anyone from the Warriors commented on it, or are you just assuming?

Nelson has. Said it was bogus. he wanted to talk to Randolph and his agent (B.J. Armstrong) about some problems he has with Randolph's lacking in practice. Nothing about dealing him

BayWarrior · Post #7 » by **BayWarrior** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:08 am

DGrangeRx33 wrote:
turk3d wrote:Yeah, it sucks. Randolph is not for sale. Those reports were bogus. Wouldn't trade him for all 3 players combined in your two deals + your number 1 unprotected pick. You'll have to do way better than that. You can make us a deal for Williams and/or Maggette if you like.

What makes you say it is bogus? Has anyone from the Warriors commented on it, or are you just assuming?

Lets assume the report is true, it doesn't mean Warrior fans want to give Randolf away. If anything Warrior fans are hoping Nellie goes and Randolf stays. The Chris Weber/Nellie feud set the franchise back a more than a decade.

SiCk-R-tHaNeVeR · Post #8 » by **SiCk-R-tHaNeVeR** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:21 am

Randolph is the more promising of players, and I get that GSW fan is high on their guy....but lets not get potential mixed up with value.

Amir Johnson would have close to equal value in that he is a known quantity with less upside, IF he was going to a team that was contending now, which GSW isn't this trade would make more sense.

Maybe work in a 3rd team if these rumors are true and bring GSW another prospect back? Maybe you could land a guy like M. Conley who has diminished value at this point?

Also, why is it so many passed on or traded Randolph exactly? Maybe there is more to the picture that we are not seeing? Perhaps validating the rumors his work ethic is lacking?

NW · Post #9 » by NW » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:23 am

SiCk-R-tHaNeVeR wrote:Randolph is the more promising of players, and I get that GSW fan is high on their guy....but lets not get potential mixed up with value.

Amir Johnson would have close to equal value in that he is a known quantity with less upside, IF he was going to a team that was contending now, which GSW isn't this trade would make more sense.

Maybe work in a 3rd team if these rumors are true and bring GSW another prospect back? Maybe you could land a guy like M. Conley who has diminished value at this point?

Also, why is it so many passed on or traded Randolph exactly? Maybe there is more to the picture that we are not seeing? Perhaps validating the rumors his work ethic is lacking?

He's a 19 year old with raw skills. He'll take a few years to develop but they're better off waiting than taking Johnson or a lesser prospect like Conley.

SiCk-R-tHaNeVeR · Post #10 » by **SiCk-R-tHaNeVeR** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:33 am

NW wrote:
SiCk-R-tHaNeVeR wrote:Randolph is the more promising of players, and I get that GSW fan is high on their guy....but lets not get potential mixed up with value.

Amir Johnson would have close to equal value in that he is a known quantity with less upside, IF he was going to a team that was contending now, which GSW isn't this trade would make more sense.

Maybe work in a 3rd team if these rumors are true and bring GSW another prospect back? Maybe you could land a guy like M. Conley who has diminished value at this point?

Also, why is it so many passed on or traded Randolph exactly? Maybe there is more to the picture that we are not seeing? Perhaps validating the rumors his work ethic is lacking?

He's a 19 year old with raw skills. He'll take a few years to develop but they're better off waiting than taking Johnson or a lesser prospect like Conley.

I agree Amir doesn't make sense, but I think GSW would have to look REAL close at a Conlry deal, IMO GSW would get the better end of that one.

At worst they could repackage Conley later and get more value IMO.

don nelson · Post #11 » by **don nelson** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:40 am

SiCk-R-tHaNeVeR wrote:Randolph is the more promising of players, and I get that GSW fan is high on their guy....but lets not get potential mixed up with value.

Amir Johnson would have close to equal value in that he is a known quantity with less upside, IF he was going to a team that was contending now, which GSW isn't this trade would make more sense.

Maybe work in a 3rd team if these rumors are true and bring GSW another prospect back? Maybe you could land a guy like M. Conley who has diminished value at this point?

Also, why is it so many passed on or traded Randolph exactly? Maybe there is more to the picture that we are not seeing? Perhaps validating the rumors his work ethic is lacking?

You're wasting time if you think the Warriors want to trade Anthony Randolph. To put that into prospective, the chances are dramatically higher the Pistons are desperate to trade Rodney Stuckey for Marcus Williams straight up. That's a slam dunk compared to the Randolph rumor.

J-Rich- · Post #12 » by **J-Rich-** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:49 am

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 14RDHQ.DTL

Nelson's announcement came on a day ESPN reported that he had confronted 19-year-old rookie Anthony Randolph and told him, "You should start having your agent look into trades because this isn't working out."

After the game, Nelson admitted to speaking with Randolph about his agent, but not to suggest Randolph ought to relocate. Rather, to work on things to improve his game.

"I do want to talk to his agent. I did say his agent, and I need to sit down and talk. (Randolph's) got to make adjustments," said Nelson, calling the report untrue. "I talked to (Randolph) about sitting down with his agent because he's got to work at practice, do some things to get better."

IBTL

old rem · Post #13 » by **old rem** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:11 am

Liqourish wrote:Wait a minute, Detroit gives up Amir for players Nellie is telling to leave AND Detroit is willing to give up picks? not a chance in hell.

Word of advice, Buike is trash, not even Warrior fans like him. I wouldn't give up Afflalo for Buike straight up.

I have no problem trading away Amir and/or Afflalo, but not for players Golden State can't trade away.

I like Azubuike who is not trash....Piston folks overrate their late oick 7 ppg guys and call Azubuike trash? LOL
Azu...wih a year and a half in the league is frequently a 15-20 pt guy. Low $...young...works for me.
Afflalo is just a second rate Azubuike.

Nelle wants to dump another of Mullin's lotto picks? Nellie's wacko agendas and his tunnel vision have made him more liability than asset. He'll find out what that means.....of course..he still gets his $$ no matter what, so he don't care.

Amir? BFD.....he won't be starting for us sooner or later. Keep him.

turk3d · Post #14 » by **turk3d** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:16 am

Azu with a 21 and 13 rebound game tonight. What did Affalo do today?

old rem · Post #15 » by **old rem** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:29 am

here's your clue... tonight...Azubuike---21 pt,13 reb, playing mostly SF. SG will be his real future.

Afflalo, yesterday...2 pt, 5 reb. Azu is averaging 13/ 4.8....was above 16 per before GSW got Crawford.
Afflalo .....4,7 pt 1.8 reb on the season. Yesterday Amir J was a DNP.

Azu is 'trash"....perhaps....but for trash it seems he's 3X what Afflalo is.

Liqourish · Post #16 » by **Liqourish** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:48 am

Azubuike got 21 pts and 13 rebs in 42 minutes of action. In fact, he's had 11 games with 37+ mins. The reason he puts up stats is because he's one of the few guys Nellie will actually play, despite his deficiencies. Even Warrior fans will admit it, in fact they bitch about it non stop.

Arron Afflalo is a great defensive gaurd playing behind Allen Iverson and Rip Hamilton. He's had 0 games of 30+ mins. Despite this, he's a vastly better defender than Kelenna, not that Golden State has any use for that, and he's more efficient as a player.

Don't even compare their stats. We all know how inflated stats can get on a running team with players the coach force feeds into games.

don nelson · Post #17 » by **don nelson** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:00 am

Liqourish wrote:Azubuike got 21 pts and 13 rebs in 42 minutes of action. In fact, he's had 11 games with 37+ mins. The reason he puts up stats is because he's one of the few guys Nellie will actually play, despite his deficiencies. Even Warrior fans will admit it, in fact they bitch about it non stop.

Arron Afflalo is a great defensive gaurd playing behind Allen Iverson and Rip Hamilton. He's had 0 games of 30+ mins. Despite this, he's a vastly better defender than Kelenna, not that Golden State has any use for that, and he's more efficient as a player.

Don't even compare their stats. We all know how inflated stats can get on a running team with players the coach force feeds into games.

FYI, the Warriors are no longer a running team this season because Golden State is missing their point guards. Baron Davis is now with the Clippers and his expected replacement at point guard Monta Ellis has been unavailable all season due to an injury. When Stephen Jackson was trying to play the point guard position just getting the ball over the half court line in less than 8 seconds was an adventure. Nellie gives playing time to those players who actually produce results when they are out on the floor. So if Azubuike is getting a lot of playing time it’s because he is producing. Since you like Aarron Affalo better than Azubuike and the Warriors like Azubuike a lot more than Affalo let’s not make a trade and both sides should be happy.

J-Rich- · Post #18 » by **J-Rich-** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:03 am

Lol...yet another poster using excuses to discredit warriors player's earning their stats. It's not like the opposing teams are letting warriors get open lay ups or shots every single time. Warriors are 1st in fga with 88 per game. 76ers are 10th in fga with 82 a game. That's a difference of 6 fga and assuming that warriors make 50% of those 6 fga, there are a minimum of 6 or maximum of 9 pts. It really isnt a huge difference. In fact there's VERY LITTLE difference when you add those pts into warriors players stats...It's the same for rebounds, ft attempts, etc. Man I'm a genius...I did such a good job at disproving all you guys that argue warriors stats are inflated...

turk3d · Post #19 » by **turk3d** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:07 pm

If Affalo >> Bukie, why are you guys trying to trade him? You don't see us trying to get Affalo do you? lol. Maybe one of these days he'll be a 10 mpg player for you. ha ha. We'll keep Bukie and his inflated stats. You can keep Affalo and his "deflated" stats.

Master Shake · Post #20 » by **Master Shake** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:09 pm

I hate comparing stats of players between teams like Golden State and Detroit. Azuibuike or whatever scores 13 points per game, Afflalo only 5. Well my friends, look at minutes played, look at the styles of basketball, look at I dunno maybe defense? Comparing stats of players in 2 totally different systems will never work, everyone knows Nellieball inflates stats.