TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final)

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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#21 » by SabasRevenge! » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:53 am

Bosh
Kapono
Ukic

for

Aldridge
Rudy
Sergio
Outlaw
Raef

The Toronto/Portland that I've been behind from the beginning and I'm sticking to it.

I fully agree with The Duke and xbl_sucks that TOR needs more value - here they get it. Hell, for Bosh I'd throw in our first round pick as well, but that's just me.

Chris Bosh is a second legit superstar to coexist with Roy, period. You don't let a pick or one extra player with nice potential get in your way of getting that done. We've been over this in the Blazers forum, and I'll say it again: Aldridge's best case scenario is Bosh when he was 22.

For TOR they get very nice value out of this package. Aldridge, Rudy, and Outlaw have all shown that they're legit and have a lot of room to grow. Sergio plays very well with Rudy and would be an excellent understudy to Calderon. That team would have great chemistry. I believe the Ukic/Sergio swap works for both team. TOR sheds Kapono's dead weight and TOR fans don't have to be tortured by seeing him start anymore. Lafrentz expires at the end of the year, Outlaw's got a bargain of a team option for next year, and Rudy's only in the first year of his rookie contract. Aldridge will need to be extended in a couple years, but they have very favorable contracts coming in.

IMO it's a win/win if TOR is serious about moving forward without Bosh or if Bosh is making noise about bolting (not saying he is).
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#22 » by Norm2953 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:56 am

It's unlikely any of the Toronto fans would approve of any Bosh deal to Portland
without Rudy. Any deal involving Martell would have to wait until Martell is
healthy but would Toronto fans accept LA, Raef, Sergio and their choice of any
of the SF's?
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#23 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:10 am

SabasRevenge! wrote:Bosh
Kapono
Ukic

for

Aldridge
Rudy
Sergio
Outlaw
Raef

The Toronto/Portland that I've been behind from the beginning and I'm sticking to it.

I fully agree with The Duke and xbl_sucks that TOR needs more value - here they get it. Hell, for Bosh I'd throw in our first round pick as well, but that's just me.

Chris Bosh is a second legit superstar to coexist with Roy, period. You don't let a pick or one extra player with nice potential get in your way of getting that done. We've been over this in the Blazers forum, and I'll say it again: Aldridge's best case scenario is Bosh when he was 22.

For TOR they get very nice value out of this package. Aldridge, Rudy, and Outlaw have all shown that they're legit and have a lot of room to grow. Sergio plays very well with Rudy and would be an excellent understudy to Calderon. That team would have great chemistry. I believe the Ukic/Sergio swap works for both team. TOR sheds Kapono's dead weight and TOR fans don't have to be tortured by seeing him start anymore. Lafrentz expires at the end of the year, Outlaw's got a bargain of a team option for next year, and Rudy's only in the first year of his rookie contract. Aldridge will need to be extended in a couple years, but they have very favorable contracts coming in.

IMO it's a win/win if TOR is serious about moving forward without Bosh or if Bosh is making noise about bolting (not saying he is).

This is the only Bosh deal that I have seen, that I think could work for both teams.
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#24 » by DanBlazer » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:14 am

I would do that bosh deal Sabas, its pretty similar to a deal I just posted except we added in Bayless and a 1st and got back Calderon instead of Ukic but I wouldnt mind doing this deal as long as Bosh guaranteed he wouldnt bolt in 2010.
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#25 » by BlackIce » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:18 am

DGrangeRx33 wrote:
SabasRevenge! wrote:Bosh
Kapono
Ukic

for

Aldridge
Rudy
Sergio
Outlaw
Raef

The Toronto/Portland that I've been behind from the beginning and I'm sticking to it.

I fully agree with The Duke and xbl_sucks that TOR needs more value - here they get it. Hell, for Bosh I'd throw in our first round pick as well, but that's just me.

Chris Bosh is a second legit superstar to coexist with Roy, period. You don't let a pick or one extra player with nice potential get in your way of getting that done. We've been over this in the Blazers forum, and I'll say it again: Aldridge's best case scenario is Bosh when he was 22.

For TOR they get very nice value out of this package. Aldridge, Rudy, and Outlaw have all shown that they're legit and have a lot of room to grow. Sergio plays very well with Rudy and would be an excellent understudy to Calderon. That team would have great chemistry. I believe the Ukic/Sergio swap works for both team. TOR sheds Kapono's dead weight and TOR fans don't have to be tortured by seeing him start anymore. Lafrentz expires at the end of the year, Outlaw's got a bargain of a team option for next year, and Rudy's only in the first year of his rookie contract. Aldridge will need to be extended in a couple years, but they have very favorable contracts coming in.

IMO it's a win/win if TOR is serious about moving forward without Bosh or if Bosh is making noise about bolting (not saying he is).

This is the only Bosh deal that I have seen, that I think could work for both teams.

good trade that both teams do i think.
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#26 » by Effigy » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:34 am

BlackIce wrote:
DGrangeRx33 wrote:
SabasRevenge! wrote:Bosh
Kapono
Ukic

for

Aldridge
Rudy
Sergio
Outlaw
Raef

The Toronto/Portland that I've been behind from the beginning and I'm sticking to it.

I fully agree with The Duke and xbl_sucks that TOR needs more value - here they get it. Hell, for Bosh I'd throw in our first round pick as well, but that's just me.

Chris Bosh is a second legit superstar to coexist with Roy, period. You don't let a pick or one extra player with nice potential get in your way of getting that done. We've been over this in the Blazers forum, and I'll say it again: Aldridge's best case scenario is Bosh when he was 22.

For TOR they get very nice value out of this package. Aldridge, Rudy, and Outlaw have all shown that they're legit and have a lot of room to grow. Sergio plays very well with Rudy and would be an excellent understudy to Calderon. That team would have great chemistry. I believe the Ukic/Sergio swap works for both team. TOR sheds Kapono's dead weight and TOR fans don't have to be tortured by seeing him start anymore. Lafrentz expires at the end of the year, Outlaw's got a bargain of a team option for next year, and Rudy's only in the first year of his rookie contract. Aldridge will need to be extended in a couple years, but they have very favorable contracts coming in.

IMO it's a win/win if TOR is serious about moving forward without Bosh or if Bosh is making noise about bolting (not saying he is).

This is the only Bosh deal that I have seen, that I think could work for both teams.

good trade that both teams do i think.


So we have to give up Rudy and Outlaw AND take Kapono's contract? No, both teams don't do that. Take Rudy out, or Kapono and Outlaw out. We're not doing all 3.
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#27 » by Napoleon7 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:03 am

This is how I would breakdown any trade between these two teams.
1. The given - trade would start with Bosh and Aldridge swap.
2. If Portland was to include Rudy they would not accept the contract of Kapono back, one or the other could be included in the final trade version not both.

SO the trades would center around one of the following 3 scenarios:
Bosh & Parker for Aldridge, Rudy & LaFrentz
OR
Bosh & Kapono for Aldridge, Outlaw, LaFrentz
OR
Bosh for Aldridge, Outlaw & Frye or Diogu

Other pieces that could be added without too much hesitation are Portland's #1, Sergio and Ukic
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#28 » by The Duke » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:30 am

Napoleon7 wrote:This is how I would breakdown any trade between these two teams.
1. The given - trade would start with Bosh and Aldridge swap.
2. If Portland was to include Rudy they would not accept the contract of Kapono back, one or the other could be included in the final trade version not both.

SO the trades would center around one of the following 3 scenarios:
Bosh & Parker for Aldridge, Rudy & LaFrentz
OR
Bosh & Kapono for Aldridge, Outlaw, LaFrentz
OR
Bosh for Aldridge, Outlaw & Frye or Diogu

Other pieces that could be added without too much hesitation are Portland's #1, Sergio and Ukic


Not one of these offers would be accepted from Toronto...

In terms of value to Toronto in a Bosh only trade... I think available Portland Players (non Roy or Oden) rank something like roughly as an estimation

1-LA
2-Rudy
3-Bayless
4-Outlaw
5-Webster
6-Batnum
7-1st rounder
8-Sergio
9-Diogu
10-Frye
11-LaFrentz

7-11 - essentially just a throw in for a Bosh Deal
4-6 - at minimum 2 included
*1-3 - at minimum 2 included

*Personally I'd want 1, 2, 3 in the package .... if thats not possible im happy not to trade Bosh now

These are values and trades happening right now... that will put you roughly in the ballpark with some tinkering
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#29 » by tucson » Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:16 am

Don't think Blazers will have much of an interest in Bosh because of Aldridge. He's not a big enough upgrade to add $10 million+ in salary (until Aldridge gets his next contract) plus another core player and a risk him leaving in 2010. It doesn't addresses their needs for a physical presence, perimeter defense, veteran leadership at point guard or small forward, etc.

Shouldn't Toronto be focused on getting the best center and wing player they can get and not another PF. Oneal and Bargs are best at PF.

There should be better trading partners for Bosh than Portland. Certainly there are teams desperate enough that will be willing to give up more for Bosh.
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#30 » by Agenda42 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:51 am

I don't think the Blazers can offer enough value in an Aldridge + stuff for Bosh deal. Bosh is a major flight risk.

The Toronto folks are right to ask for more than the original deal, that's not good value for them, but I just don't think Portland can offer that value until the deal can include an extension for Bosh.
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#31 » by Effigy » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:01 am

The Toronto folks are right to ask for more than the original deal, that's not good value for them


Toronto's been down this road before. Damon Stoudamire, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady. Which one of those did they get a package comparable to what the OP suggested?

Facts of life kids, when you realize your star isn't going to resign and you have to trade him, it DRAMATCIALLY lessens what you get back in return. Raptor fans love to come in with "Bosh hasn't demanded a trade!" Well he hasn't signed an extension either, and until he does you run the very real risk of him walking for nothing. It's much more likely that the Raps work out a deal for Bosh in the off season that includes an extension with his new team.

I think the OP's offer is low too, but I bet it's a lot closer to what the Raptors actually get for CB than what Rap fans are asking for....
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#32 » by Norm2953 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:54 am

The Duke wrote:
Napoleon7 wrote:This is how I would breakdown any trade between these two teams.
1. The given - trade would start with Bosh and Aldridge swap.
2. If Portland was to include Rudy they would not accept the contract of Kapono back, one or the other could be included in the final trade version not both.

SO the trades would center around one of the following 3 scenarios:
Bosh & Parker for Aldridge, Rudy & LaFrentz
OR
Bosh & Kapono for Aldridge, Outlaw, LaFrentz
OR
Bosh for Aldridge, Outlaw & Frye or Diogu

Other pieces that could be added without too much hesitation are Portland's #1, Sergio and Ukic


Not one of these offers would be accepted from Toronto...

In terms of value to Toronto in a Bosh only trade... I think available Portland Players (non Roy or Oden) rank something like roughly as an estimation

1-LA
2-Rudy
3-Bayless
4-Outlaw
5-Webster
6-Batnum
7-1st rounder
8-Sergio
9-Diogu
10-Frye
11-LaFrentz

7-11 - essentially just a throw in for a Bosh Deal
4-6 - at minimum 2 included
*1-3 - at minimum 2 included

*Personally I'd want 1, 2, 3 in the package .... if thats not possible im happy not to trade Bosh now

These are values and trades happening right now... that will put you roughly in the ballpark with some tinkering


I do think you're underestimating the value of Raef's expiring contract for its for $12 Million
that's being paid off by insurance. The value of such a contract is meaningless to the fans but
valued by the money managers in Toronto.

I do think Portland would go for Raef's contract, LA, Bayless and Outlaw which would give the
Raptors 1,3,4 and perhaps a #1 pick if necessary but Rudy's probably not available due to all of
effort the team had to make to just get him over here. Portland is not eager to move Bayless
who might really blossom with playing time but can't offer both guys for they need one of them
to replace the other if one is traded.

The problem as Bonzi has so explained is a fear of being Boozered for if Bosh does leave, it
would set us back for years, even if Oden comes on next season. I personally would not do the
deal for its very possible we will have some cap space next summer to bid on a free agent or
perhaps in a deal with one of the teams seeking more cap space in 2010.
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#33 » by ForeveRaptorFan » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:58 am

Not exactly fair as you might think. Raps would pass.
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#34 » by zong » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:12 am

The way I see it, it's gonna have to be LMA + Rudy + a 3rd prospect like some mentioned.

Bosh hasn't asked for a trade, so these proposals are ridiculous anyway.
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#35 » by _MidNight_ » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:14 am

LOL @ Portland fans not wanting to give up role players to get a young superstar that could bring them multiple championships.. :lol:
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#36 » by Effigy » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:28 am

spartacus416 wrote:LOL @ Portland fans not wanting to give up role players to get a young superstar that could bring them multiple championships.. :lol:


What did you think of the packages Toronto got for Vince, Damon and McGrady?

The reality is the Raptors won't get close to that, the team selling the star never does.
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#37 » by _MidNight_ » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:45 am

Bonzi wrote:
spartacus416 wrote:LOL @ Portland fans not wanting to give up role players to get a young superstar that could bring them multiple championships.. :lol:


What did you think of the packages Toronto got for Vince, Damon and McGrady?

The reality is the Raptors won't get close to that, the team selling the star never does.

You do realize BC wasn't running the franchise right?, I mean cmon look at who was running things then, the proofs in our draft history and some of the moves those past losers have made lol.

People can bitch and moan all they want I'm not willing to sell Bosh at 70-80 cents on the dollar because some fans have a hard on for a role player who hasn't done anything in the league to justify their hype.
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#38 » by Agenda42 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:20 am

spartacus416 wrote:You do realize BC wasn't running the franchise right?, I mean cmon look at who was running things then, the proofs in our draft history and some of the moves those past losers have made lol.

People can bitch and moan all they want I'm not willing to sell Bosh at 70-80 cents on the dollar because some fans have a hard on for a role player who hasn't done anything in the league to justify their hype.


The risk you take by not trading Bosh for 70 cents on the dollar is that he walks and you get 0 cents. Nobody is going to make a better offer until Bosh can sign an extension, and even then most of the teams in the hunt for Bosh will have cap space to sign him as a free agent. The Raptors have very little leverage here, getting fair value will be impossible.

It's a tough spot to be in as a GM -- either you make a trade that your fan base will hate, or you pray that he wants to sign with you in the offseason.
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#39 » by Wizenheimer » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:27 am

spartacus416 wrote:LOL @ Portland fans not wanting to give up role players to get a young superstar that could bring them multiple championships.. :lol:


how's he doing on bringing Toronto multiple championships?

then why would it be any different for portland?
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Re: TOR/POR: Fair trade for BOSH (final) 

Post#40 » by _MidNight_ » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:51 am

Wizenheimer wrote:
spartacus416 wrote:LOL @ Portland fans not wanting to give up role players to get a young superstar that could bring them multiple championships.. :lol:


how's he doing on bringing Toronto multiple championships?

then why would it be any different for portland?

First of all a single player don't/can't bring you a championship on his own (ask Kobe after the Shaq years ended in LA or Jordan before he got the right players around him).

Secondly, Toronto don't have nearly close to the right pieces to make a championship run right now and even Stevie Wonder could see that.

Thirdly, Portland have so many young talent that adding Bosh to a Roy and Oden core would guarantee them title contention for yrs to come, add any adequate SF or a guy like Gerald Wallace with a pass first PG like Blake who hits open shots running the point and what do you get ?


Edit @ Agenda42. Unless Bosh is willing to leave 20-25 million on the table there's a pretty good chance the team that he's with will be able to resign him, Unless his GM is incompetent in which case (from a financial perspective) he resigns then demands a trade and that goes for LBJ and Wade. These guys will be in their 30's after this big contract so it's safe to say this is their last max contract, leaving that kinda money on the table would be stupid. Don't believe to the hype people.

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