Hinrich to MN

[plucas]

CHI Trades:Kirk Hinrich
CHI Gets:Brian Cardinal + 18
MN Trades:Pick 18 + Brian Cardinal
MN Gets:Kirk Hinrich

Minnesota gets their PG
Chicago cuts salary and picks up a draft pick

IMO Kirk raised his value in the 1st Round series v. the celtics

[trwi7]

Does Minnesota even have that much cap space? Either way, even if they do, they're not going to use all of it, plus give up two 1sts to take on Hinrich who is a decent player, but overpaid for too many years.

[JES12]

Does Minnesota even have that much cap space? Either way, even if they do, they're not going to use all of it, plus give up two 1sts to take on Hinrich who is a decent player, but overpaid for too many years.

No, they don't. And you're right.

But Mike Miller for Hinrich straight up seems like a good idea to me.

[plucas]

I think MN has plenty of cap room after contracts are up this year but I was thinking something along the lines of Hinrich for Miller, Except I see Miller just as an expiring. I think Chicago would be more interested in A filler + the 18, or the 28 & a 2nd rounder if the 18 is too high to give up.

[shrink]

I think MN has plenty of cap room after contracts are up this year but I was thinking something along the lines of Hinrich for Miller, Except I see Miller just as an expiring. I think Chicago would be more interested in A filler + the 18, or the 28 & a 2nd rounder if the 18 is too high to give up.

1. MIN only has about $2.5 mil in room unuder the cap once you apply the cap holds for the picks. Knock out the holds for the #18 and #28, and you still aren't getting up to $9.5 mil.

2. Miller is not just an expiring .. he can be a very productive player on the right team. While he frustrated MIN by not shooting this last season, he was still the #1 rebounding guard, had a mittful of assists, and was a highly effective shooter at 2P%. If you want just an expiring, think Brian Cardinal.

3. While MIN refused to offer even expirings for Hinrich and his expensive deal a few months ago, I've come around to the idea that he's worth expiring. However, being worth expirings is a long shot from being worth raw cap space. The contract is still too big, and too long for the current NBA market. He's a good player, but I highly doubt you're going to get raw cap space for him plus two 1st round picks.

4. I think that Hinrich "the player" is a great fit for MIN. However Hinrich "the contract" is not.

[JES12]

They will be at $50,918,778 for 11 players and after the cap hold for another min contract, they should be at $51.4. Cap will be between $57 and $60 mil. Hinrich makes 9.5 mil next year.

And since the Bulls are btwn the cap and the lux tax, they are not in dire need of savings this upcoming year nor can they pick up a player above MLE. The can always use Mike Miller and then trade Deng or Miller or Salmons later.

[plucas]

EDIT***

[JES12]

I think MN has plenty of cap room after contracts are up this year but I was thinking something along the lines of Hinrich for Miller, Except I see Miller just as an expiring. I think Chicago would be more interested in A filler + the 18, or the 28 & a 2nd rounder if the 18 is too high to give up.

1. MIN only has about $2.5 mil in room unuder the cap once you apply the cap holds for the picks. Knock out the holds for the #18 and #28, and you still aren't getting up to $9.5 mil.

2. Miller is not just an expiring .. he can be a very productive player on the right team. While he frustrated MIN by not shooting this last season, he was still the #1 rebounding guard, had a mittful of assists, and was a highly effective shooter at 2P%. If you want just an expiring, think Brian Cardinal.

3. While MIN refused to offer even expirings for Hinrich and his expensive deal a few months ago, I've come around to the idea that he's worth expiring. However, being worth expirings is a long shot from being worth raw cap space. The contract is still too big, and too long for the current NBA market. He's a good player, but I highly doubt you're going to get raw cap space for him plus two 1st round picks.

4. I think that Hinrich "the player" is a great fit for MIN. However Hinrich "the contract" is not.

I forgot about the pick's hold. And I agree for the most part on all of it.

[Tekkenlaw]

I wouldn't give up the heat pick for Hinrich, not with all the point guard talent in this draft.

[JimmyBulls]

I don't think the Wolves would make this deal with the 18th pick.

The Wolves can send Cardinal, Brewer, and the 28th pick for Hinrich

The Bulls could then draft a good under-rated point guard prospect in Aaron Jackson.

[boogydown]

I wouldn't give up the heat pick for Hinrich, not with all the point guard talent in this draft.

Who? You have Rubio and Jennings? After that there isn't much.

[deeney0]

I don't think the Wolves would make this deal with the 18th pick.
The Wolves can send Cardinal, Brewer, and the 28th pick for Hinrich

Brewer+28 > 18

Sign me up for Miker Miller for Hinrich straight up.

Who? You have Rubio and Jennings? After that there isn't much.

That's it at the top. Around 18 though you've got Lawson, Flynn, Teague, Maynor, Collison, Holiday...

[C.lupus]

Sign me up for Miker Miller for Hinrich straight up.

+1

Or substitute Craig Smith for Brwer in the other deal. Cardinal, Smith, and 28 for Hinrich

[Paxson]

meh. I think Chicago will find a better trading partner.

[coldfish]

I feel kind of stupid repeating this in every Hinrich thread.

The only reason why Hinrich is available is because:
- Fans assume the Bulls won't pay the luxury tax
- Gordon is a free agent and resigning him will mean the team pays the tax
- Some people feel the Bulls would prefer Gordon over Hinrich and that Gordon can be had for a reasonable deal.

That basically means that Hinrich only goes in a trade where the Bulls save money right now to get Gordon. Chicago already has a mountain of expiring deals. If anything, the post 2010 team is getting dangerously thin. The only people on the team under contract are Rose, Noah, Deng and Hinrich.

I would be shocked if the Bulls move Hinrich for an equal value of expiring deals. That means no Hinrich for Miller. The only way the team may consider it is if they are willing to pay the tax for Gordon, but want to position themselves better for 2010 anyways and want to dump Hinrich's longer term deal.

[shrink]

Again, I think people are falling in love with Hinrich "the player" and ignoring Hinrich "the contract."

Does anyone really think if Hinrich was available in free agency this year, he'd get this?

2009-10 $9,500,000
2010-11 $9,000,000
2011-12 $8,000,000

Let's look at what young #1 options are getting. Kevin Martin got $8.76. Al Jefferson got $11. Monta Ellis got $11. Josh Smith got $10 mil. Okafor $9.5. Does Devin Harris fit? $7.8. And keep in mind that new salaries this year are going down, not up.

Look, Hinrich is a good player, but he is not at this level, and he's probably a team's fourth option. He is not a superstar, and he's not even a star .. he's an average starting PG. Half the teams have better options.

His contract goes through the dreaded 2010 season, further driving away the number of takers.

I like Hinrich -- I really do, but I really think people need to consider the salary more in comparison to the market. Hinrich would get the MLE in free agency (around $5.7). His trade value will reflect that.

[coldfish]

There are several groups that teams fall into financially:
1. Teams trying to get capspace for 2010
2. Teams bleeding money right now and looking to dump salaries
3. Teams who are OK moneywise, but have no hope of getting at 2010

Teams falling in group 1, like Minnesota, look at Hinrich's contract like he is the devil. That's why the Hinrich to minnesota discussions make little sense.
Teams falling in group 2 are obviously not going to trade expirings for Hinrich, but they will like his declining deal. Exchanging an increasing deal for Hinrich would be fine for them.
Teams falling in group 3 are the ones most likely to take on Hinrich. He is overpaid, but he is going to make any team better due to his flexibility. If Chicago is thinking along these lines, these are the teams to look at.

Hinrich to Minnesota is a really bad idea. It keeps coming up due to the media report of the discussion, but we as fans have no idea what the discussion was. Likely, its was a double **** you discussion ending in 30 seconds.

[john2jer]

What Chicago wants for Hinrich is more than Minnesota is willing to give. That ends talks right there.

[nate33]

I still think Hinrich to Portland straight up for Steve Blake makes too much sense not to happen. Chicago gets a quality veteran backup to Rose and $6M in instant cap relief. Portland gets an upgrade at PG who would be perfect alongside Roy.

[deeney0]

^What Chicago posters want. Based on the talks that seemed to go on near the deadline, I think what the Bulls organization wants is less.