Kings - Pacers

[Smills91]

Kings deal:
Andres Nocioni
Kenny Thomas

Pacers deal:
Jamaal Tinsley
Troy Murphy

Kings get a 4/5 to play in their rotation and Tinsley brings a distributing PG to the roster
Pacers get a 4/3 to spread the floor and play D, while getting an expiring contract back for Tinsley.

[greenway84]

no. i would do thomas for tinsley but no need for nocioni. and we could get more for murphy.

[8305]

Actually, as a Pacer fan I would do this deal. Getting rid of Tinsley for an expiring is a win. The difference between Noc and Murphy is not that great. You get a defensive upgrade and an equally capable outside shooter. You lose in that Noc can't give you minutes at the 5. This trade is easier to make after drafting Hansbrough.

[basketballwacko2]

Actually, as a Pacer fan I would do this deal. Getting rid of Tinsley for an expiring is a win. The difference between Noc and Murphy is not that great. You get a defensive upgrade and an equally capable outside shooter. You lose in that Noc can't give you minutes at the 5. This trade is easier to make after drafting Hansbrough.

I sorta like Noc but not at the cost of T Murder! How about Dunleavy and Jamaal for Noc, Thomas and Greene?

[Bac2Basics]

Why would the Kings trade for Tinsley w/o moving Beno in the process?
Answer - They wouldn't.

[8305]

[quote="Bac2Basics"]Why would the Kings trade for Tinsley w/o moving Beno in the process?
Answer - They wouldn't.

I can understand why Sac wants to move Udrich but as a Pacer fan there is no way I would trade Jamal straight up for Beno. A bad four year contract is much worse than a bad two year contract.

Here's why I think this makes sense for Sac. Murphy is a 4 who can play the 5. I'm not aware that you have a third 4/5 type player as good as Murphy. I don't think you could use Nocioni in this type role.

I'm sure you drafted Evens to ultimately play the point. But is he ready to play the point full time? My guess is if you use hime exclusively at the point 30 to 35 minutes a night you will be just as bad in 09/10 as you were in 08/09. If you want to improve your on court product this year you will need a competent pg. Tinsley on his best day is actually a very good point guard. If he has learned anything from his Pacer exile you could be getting a useful player. Obviously a risk but if it doesn't work out he's an expiring next year.

The total money of the proposed deal is about a wash.

[8305]

I sorta like Noc but not at the cost of T Murder! How about Dunleavy and Jamaal for Noc, Thomas and Greene? [/quote]

There's no way Sac does what you are suggesting. T-Murder proved to be a reasonably capable player last year but what he brings would largely be replaced by Nocioni. I always thought Noc was most effective when used at the 4. Good 3 pt shot and the ability use his quickness against bigger players. He is a tough enough guy to battle against bigger players. Also more capable of steping out to guard the combo forward. I doubt if he is remarkably less effective than Troy when asked to guard someone in the post.

[Bac2Basics]

Why would the Kings trade for Tinsley w/o moving Beno in the process?
Answer - They wouldn't.

I can understand why Sac wants to move Udrich but as a Pacer fan there is no way I would trade Jamal straight up for Beno. A bad four year contract is much worse than a bad two year contract.

Here's why I think this makes sense for Sac. Murphy is a 4 who can play the 5. I'm not aware that you have a third 4/5 type player as good as Murphy. I don't think you could use Nocioni in this type role.

I'm sure you drafted Evens to ultimately play the point. But is he ready to play the point full time? My guess is if you use hime exclusively at the point 30 to 35 minutes a night you will be just as bad in 09/10 as you were in 08/09. If you want to improve your on court product this year you will need a competent pg. Tinsley on his best day is actually a very good point guard. If he has learned anything from his Pacer exile you could be getting a useful player. Obviously a risk but if it doesn't work out he's an expiring next year.

The total money of the proposed deal is about a wash.

I'm not suggesting that Indy would want to swap Beno for Tinsley, I guess what I am suggesting that no one going to Sacramento in any of these deal on this thread would make it worth it for Sacramento to take on Tinsley while we still have Beno.

[jowglenn]

This pacers fan says SIGN ME UP

[basketballwacko2]

You do realize that Troy Murphy got nearly 12 rebounds a game and shot 45% from 3pt range? Nailing 161 3 pointers, granted he's not a great defender but what he does well is really good 3s and rbs.

[8305]

I'm not suggesting that Indy would want to swap Beno for Tinsley, I guess what I am suggesting that no one going to Sacramento in any of these deal on this thread would make it worth it for Sacramento to take on Tinsley while we still have Beno.[/quote]

No getting around that from Sac's point you would have to see Jamal as more than just a bad contract. If you don't foresee getting something out of him on the floor you don't do the deal.

That said, I just don't see that much risk from Sac's position in a Murphy/Tinsley for Nocioni/Thomas. You are getting the best player (Murphy) and even if Jamal doesn't work, all that has happened to you is losing the mid level expiring for the summer of 2010 in exhange for a much larger expiring (both Tinsley and Murphy) in 2011. If Jamal works this is a big win for Sac.

[Bac2Basics]

I'm not suggesting that Indy would want to swap Beno for Tinsley, I guess what I am suggesting that no one going to Sacramento in any of these deal on this thread would make it worth it for Sacramento to take on Tinsley while we still have Beno.

No getting around that from Sac's point you would have to see Jamal as more than just a bad contract. If you don't foresee getting something out of him on the floor you don't do the deal.

That said, I just don't see that much risk from Sac's position in a Murphy/Tinsley for Nocioni/Thomas. You are getting the best player (Murphy) and even if Jamal doesn't work, all that has happened to you is losing the mid level expiring for the summer of 2010 in exhange for a much larger expiring (both Tinsley and Murphy) in 2011. If Jamal works this is a big win for Sac.[/quote]

If the Kings wanted Murphy, they shouldn't have to take Tinsley to get him.
This is an easy pass imo.

[KM44]

I would have to do this, but there would be a followup trade of us giving beno to a team that forces us to give them a pick, and I don't like that.

[Smills91]

I would have to do this, but there would be a followup trade of us giving beno to a team that forces us to give them a pick, and I don't like that.

No you'd look at other 'useful' players like Matt Carroll for Beno or Beno for one of Nazr/Diop or maybe eve Gadzuric(but that would be a LAST resort).

Beno can be dealt, you'll just take probably WORSE junk for him, but if that junk is owed less money or plays a more favorable role with our roster, then it's probably worth looking into.

[IndyMac]

I wouldn't make this trade. We give up Murphy and get rid of Tinsley, and get a backup for Granger and an expiring contract. If Nocioni's contract wasn't so long, then yes. The only upside for the Pacers is getting rid of Tinsley, and clearing some salary a year sooner. But, the Pacers don't need a backup with 4 years left on his contract when they are trying to rebuild.

[Smills91]

I wouldn't make this trade. We give up Murphy and get rid of Tinsley, and get a backup for Granger and an expiring contract. If Nocioni's contract wasn't so long, then yes. The only upside for the Pacers is getting rid of Tinsley, and clearing some salary a year sooner. But, the Pacers don't need a backup with 4 years left on his contract when they are trying to rebuild.

He has 3 years left on his contract. The 4th is a team option and unlikely to be picked up.

[cdt3]

I agree the Thomas expiring for Murphy is a good call seems like a fair I am trying to weigh the trade. Noc makes $4mil less than Murphy in 9/10, $6mil in 10/11 and then Murphy expires and Noc makes $6mil in 11/12. So really that is a savings of $4mil for the Pacers. Plus Thomas' expiring $8mil a third backup PG in Tinsley added for $8mil. I really don't see the Kings would want Tinsley with Beno but they may think the Kings think about it with Murphy.

Is taking on Tinsley/Murphy for 2 years worth trading Thomas' expiring and Noc? I would say yes.

I think the Pacers woud think it was worth taking on Noc.

Is this the best value the Kings are going to get for Thomas? Who knows right now.

[sackings916]

I think this is a solid deal for both teams. Nocioni and Murphy are about the same level players, Murphy has more value since he's a big man while Nocioni is a combo forward but I dont think the Pacers can say no to this with Tinsley for an expiring Thomas being the other part of the trade. Plus they just drafted Hansbrough and seem pretty high on Hibbert.