yardbarker

Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/MEM or OKC & TOR/ORL

Moderators: moocow007, loserX, Texas Chuck, HartfordWhalers, Trader_Joe, jazzfan1971

Post#1 Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/MEM o
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:19 pm by Rapsobsessed7

Raptors Trade:
S&T Shawn Marion 6,200,000
Kris Humphries $2,900,000

Raptors Get:
Conditional Second Round Pick (Likely never will see it)

Why this creates a trade exception of about 9,100,000 which should be enough for the later deal for Hedos starting salary. Doug Smith mentioned BC getting creative well this is as creative as it gets.

Dallas Trades:
Jerry Stackhouse $7,250,000
3 million Cash
Rights to Shan Foster (2008 Second Round Draft Pick)
= 9, 162, 500 (after X 1.25 + 100,000)

Dallas Gets:
S&T Shawn Marion 6,200,000
Kris Humphries $2,900,000

Dallas gets a big man in Hump that replaces Bass off the bench with them signing Gortat and they get Marion to add to the puzzle who can help with defense + rebounding

Oklahoma City Trades or Memphis:
TE

Oklahoma City Gets or Memphis:
Jerry Stackhouse $7,250,000
3 million Cash
Rights to Shan Foster (2008 Second Round Draft Pick)

Either team can use Stackhouse as a trading chip, he comes paid for and they get a second round draft pick out of it. He could be a useful trading chip so they can flip him somewhere else if they want but he comes paid for.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Now heres the creative part

Raptors Trade:
9.1 million Trade Exception
Conditional Second Round Pick (Via Marion S&T)

Orlando Trades:
S&T Hedo 9,100,000 (5 years about 53 million)

His contract would look like this:

1st Years: 9,100,000
2nd Year: 9,828,000
3rd Year: 10,556,000
4th Year: 11,284,000
5th Year: 12,012,000
= 52, 780, 000

Which is about the number that has been thrown around.

Orlando picks up a huge trade exception which they can use on acquiring someone which could turn out to be a useful tool. They take 0 salary back but can use this trade exception in acquiring a player of their choice.

Raptors keep their MLE, the rights to Delfino and Pops and would look very strong in the east. Their depth chart would be.

Calderon/Roko/Banks
Derozan/Delfino/Douby
Hedo/Klieza or Barnes
Bosh/Evans/Pops
Bargnani/Rasho/O'Byrant

Solid team and i think this is BC's "creative" way of getting Hedo it seems to work for all teams involved. Let me know what you think.
Rapsobsessed7




RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 14,488
And1: 900
Joined: May 10, 2008
Top

Post#2 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:34 pm by SuperSant

Sounds good, and fair for all parties. Good job. Plus I dont really see anything that would prevent Dallas or OKC/Mem from saying no. Dallas cashes in on Stack's contract while only giving up a second rounder. the other team is actuyally gaining 1 million in profit if the cut stack. plus they pick up a young player that can be signed for cheap. plus Orlando should do this because it is better than just losing Turk for nothing; they get something valuable out of it that can be used to solve their depth issues
Props to TurboZone for the sig:
Image

---Team Kobe---
SuperSant





Rookie
User avatar
Posts: 1,158
And1: 62
Joined: Nov 24, 2008
Location: K-Town
Top

Post#3 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:37 pm by EViLMiKE

I love the first part of this, but I still don't see Orlando doing the last piece. TOR could maybe include something more to sweeten. Maybe Ca$h or a TOR future 2nd.
EViLMiKE
Sophomore
Posts: 231
And1: 0
Joined: May 27, 2009
Top

Post#4 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:38 pm by Rapsobsessed7

well i believe they can only use this trade exception on one player i dont think you can split them but they can get a starter for the 9.1 million easily IMO. Thank you though i just saw a bunch of variations and i combined what BC has said about getting creative and here it is
Rapsobsessed7




RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 14,488
And1: 900
Joined: May 10, 2008
Top

Post#5 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:39 pm by EViLMiKE

I think that you can split a trade exception. The whole idea of them is just to stretch out a trade.
EViLMiKE
Sophomore
Posts: 231
And1: 0
Joined: May 27, 2009
Top

Post#6 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:41 pm by Rapsobsessed7

EViLMiKE wrote:I love the first part of this, but I still don't see Orlando doing the last piece. TOR could maybe include something more to sweeten. Maybe Ca$h or a TOR future 2nd.


Well i mean even if the second part doesnt happen this would save us 2.9 million + 1.8 which i calculated with Turk salary at 9.1 reaching 53 million so we would have about 4.7 million in cap space left to sign Delfino (3 million), Barnes (1.4 million) Rasho (vet minimum).

I think though Orlando gets a huge TE that can be useful in this economic downfall i see some teams willing to shed that salary if it means getting under the tax which that 9.1 could be very useful maybe you get Boozer out of it from Utah so they can resign Millsap.

Nelson
Carter
Lewis
Boozer
Howard

Imagine that lineup but i think if not theres other options IMO.
Rapsobsessed7




RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 14,488
And1: 900
Joined: May 10, 2008
Top

Post#7 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:42 pm by lakerfan10770

Sorry Raps, but you can't combine TPE's, in this deal Toronto would get two, one for $6.2M for Marion and one for $2.9 for Hump.
lakerfan10770
Starter
Posts: 2,205
And1: 1
Joined: Aug 3, 2005
Top

Post#8 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:44 pm by Rapsobsessed7

Teams with a trade exception have up to a year in which they can acquire more salary in other trades (Trade #2, #3, etc) than they send away, as long as the gulf in salaries for Trade #2, #3, etc are less than or equal to the difference in salary for Trade #1. This exception is particularly useful when teams trade draft picks straight-up for a player; since draft picks have no salary value, often the only way to get salaries to match is to use a trade exception, which allows trades to be made despite unbalanced salaries. It is also useful to compensate teams for losing free agents as they can do a sign and trade of that free agent to acquire a trade exception that can be used later. Note this exception is for single player trades only, though additional cash and draft picks can be part of the trade.
Rapsobsessed7




RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 14,488
And1: 900
Joined: May 10, 2008
Top

Post#9 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:46 pm by Rapsobsessed7

lakerfan10770 wrote:Sorry Raps, but you can't combine TPE's, in this deal Toronto would get two, one for $6.2M for Marion and one for $2.9 for Hump.


this isnt two separate deals its all in one, if it was separate that would be the case but its not so yes we would get a 9.1 million TPE because you can add other players in a S&T you dont have to do it separately see the KVH trade and the Eddy Curry trade.
Rapsobsessed7




RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 14,488
And1: 900
Joined: May 10, 2008
Top

Post#10 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:46 pm by LakeShowKobe24

This isn't bad, but the problem is what is the incentive for the third team. They are getting Stackhouse as a chip but if a team wanted to trade for him they could just trade directly with OKL for pure cap space. So essentially there's no reason for Mem or Okl to do tihs except to help Tor. I think a good prospect or pick should be going to them from Tor in order for this to go down, but due to the unability to trade their pick and lack of any productive players outside of Tor's core, its going to be extremely difficult to gather enough incentive for this third club to come along for the ride.

And don't tell me that second rounder Foster is worth it, cause he's not they're essentially paying 4 million for a late second.
Pointguard01 wrote:Gortat will be a Maverick. Book it.

Orlando's not matching.
LakeShowKobe24
Junior
User avatar
Posts: 377
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 11, 2009
Top

Post#11 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:50 pm by Rapsobsessed7

how are they paying 4 million? Stackhouse has a 2 million guaranteed contract which becomes instantly paid for from dallas, note the cash coming back to either Memphis/OKC. They pick up a second round pick for taking this 2 million of free money basically of they can use stackhouse + the cash and send it somewhere else. I dont see how it isnt incentive enough, his 2 million will be on the books if they waive him for a year in which case it wont affect their salary cap situation that much at all because they are so far under so they pick up a second round pick in the process. However they could use Stackhouse to get a player that they can actually use with a team looking to cut longterm salary and get under the tax which is why he becomes a useful trading chip for the team + they get foster who is a young prospect.
Rapsobsessed7




RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 14,488
And1: 900
Joined: May 10, 2008
Top

Post#12 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:52 pm by lakerfan10770

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:
lakerfan10770 wrote:Sorry Raps, but you can't combine TPE's, in this deal Toronto would get two, one for $6.2M for Marion and one for $2.9 for Hump.


this isnt two separate deals its all in one, if it was separate that would be the case but its not so yes we would get a 9.1 million TPE because you can add other players in a S&T you dont have to do it separately see the KVH trade and the Eddy Curry trade.


TPE's are only created when one player is traded. So in your scenario, Trading Marion & Humphires would actually be broken into two trades. Otherwise no TPE's would be created at all


From Larry Coon's FAQs, #69:

In some cases, teams have up to one year to acquire the replacement player(s) to complete a trade. These trades are considered non-simultaneous trades. In a non-simultaneous trade, a team can only acquire up to 100% plus $100,000 of the salary it gives up (as opposed to 125% plus $100,000 in a simultaneous trade). A trade in which more than one player is traded away can only be simultaneous; non-simultaneous trades are allowed only when a single player is traded away (although teams can sometimes find ways to configure multi-player trades as multiple single-player trades which are non-simultaneous).
lakerfan10770
Starter
Posts: 2,205
And1: 1
Joined: Aug 3, 2005
Top

Post#13 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:56 pm by LakeShowKobe24

Well i'm assuming since they traded for Stackhouse with pure capspace they weren't going to SPEND 2 million to buy him out when they could of just had pure cap space without the trade. So i took his 7 million and subtracted 3 and got the 4. And while foster is "a young prospect" so is any rookie/undrafted player, so describing him that way means nothing. They could also get a player very similar to his skills in the undrafted pool.

And if this deal went down for 1 million in your scenario, the media and fanbase would be all over his cheap ass for facilitaing this thing for 1 fricking million.
Pointguard01 wrote:Gortat will be a Maverick. Book it.

Orlando's not matching.
LakeShowKobe24
Junior
User avatar
Posts: 377
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 11, 2009
Top

Post#14 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 1:01 pm by Condi Rice

I like this deal. Toronto can throw MEM another $3M Cash to sweeten it.

Regarding Hedo, as mentioned on the Raps board, if Orlando plays ball, they can give him a 6 year deal, with the 6th year partially guaranteed (Raps would buy him out in 6th year to make the overall contract ~$53M)

With the 6th year you can start Hedo at a lower salary and might be able to fit him in the Marion generated TPE. You can also start Marion at a higher salary.
Image
Condi Rice
Sixth Man
User avatar
Posts: 1,713
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 27, 2008
Top

Post#15 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 1:02 pm by EViLMiKE

LakeShowKobe24 wrote:This isn't bad, but the problem is what is the incentive for the third team. They are getting Stackhouse as a chip but if a team wanted to trade for him they could just trade directly with OKL for pure cap space. So essentially there's no reason for Mem or Okl to do tihs except to help Tor. I think a good prospect or pick should be going to them from Tor in order for this to go down, but due to the unability to trade their pick and lack of any productive players outside of Tor's core, its going to be extremely difficult to gather enough incentive for this third club to come along for the ride.

And don't tell me that second rounder Foster is worth it, cause he's not they're essentially paying 4 million for a late second.


The Stackhouse Contract has heaps of value, since it's even better than an expiring contract. There are lots of salary dump trades to be made. Whomever has that Stack contract can offer immediate CAP relief to a team that needs to dump salary. I know the GSW fans will jump on this immediately, but that team does come to mind. They have a lot of young guys that they're interested in resigning, but no money for the next 3 or 4 seasons. That Stackhouse contract could be worth a Maggette type player.

Even if that is not enough to get the deal done for team #3, the principle of the deal is solid. There could be an additional pick, or some extra cash thrown in to make it work; but i doubt that the extra would even need to be included.
EViLMiKE
Sophomore
Posts: 231
And1: 0
Joined: May 27, 2009
Top

Post#16 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 1:03 pm by Rapsobsessed7

lakerfan10770 wrote:
Rapsobsessed7 wrote:
lakerfan10770 wrote:Sorry Raps, but you can't combine TPE's, in this deal Toronto would get two, one for $6.2M for Marion and one for $2.9 for Hump.


this isnt two separate deals its all in one, if it was separate that would be the case but its not so yes we would get a 9.1 million TPE because you can add other players in a S&T you dont have to do it separately see the KVH trade and the Eddy Curry trade.


TPE's are only created when one player is traded. So in your scenario, Trading Marion & Humphires would actually be broken into two trades. Otherwise no TPE's would be created at all


From Larry Coon's FAQs, #69:

In some cases, teams have up to one year to acquire the replacement player(s) to complete a trade. These trades are considered non-simultaneous trades. In a non-simultaneous trade, a team can only acquire up to 100% plus $100,000 of the salary it gives up (as opposed to 125% plus $100,000 in a simultaneous trade). A trade in which more than one player is traded away can only be simultaneous; non-simultaneous trades are allowed only when a single player is traded away (although teams can sometimes find ways to configure multi-player trades as multiple single-player trades which are non-simultaneous).


It would be simultaneous

As its name suggests, a simultaneous trade takes place all at once. Teams can acquire up to 125% plus $100,000 of the salaries they are trading in a simultaneous trade. For example, a team trading a $5 million player in a simultaneous trade can receive one or more players whose salary is no more than 125% of $5 million, plus $100,000, or $6.35 million in return.


So since it isnt non simultaneous could it not work?

If a team has Traded Player exceptions from two previous non-simultaneous trades, then they can't combine them into one big Traded Player exception. For example, suppose in the last year a team traded a $5 million player for a $4 million player (generating a $1.1 million Traded Player exception) and separately traded a $3 million player for a $1 million player (generating a $2.1 million Traded Player exception). They cannot now combine the two into a $3.2 million Traded Player exception)
Rapsobsessed7




RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 14,488
And1: 900
Joined: May 10, 2008
Top

Post#17 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 1:05 pm by EViLMiKE

LakeShowKobe24 wrote:This isn't bad, but the problem is what is the incentive for the third team. They are getting Stackhouse as a chip but if a team wanted to trade for him they could just trade directly with OKL for pure cap space. So essentially there's no reason for Mem or Okl to do tihs except to help Tor. I think a good prospect or pick should be going to them from Tor in order for this to go down, but due to the unability to trade their pick and lack of any productive players outside of Tor's core, its going to be extremely difficult to gather enough incentive for this third club to come along for the ride.

And don't tell me that second rounder Foster is worth it, cause he's not they're essentially paying 4 million for a late second.



This is free money and a free second round pick. They're getting the money in the deal to buy out stackhouse.
EViLMiKE
Sophomore
Posts: 231
And1: 0
Joined: May 27, 2009
Top

Post#18 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 1:09 pm by LakeShowKobe24

^teams don't facilitate deals like this for the benefit for other teams. You'll have to do it like Smills' deal and have a bad contract going out of Memphis for them to do this. Have Buckner go to dallas or something because if we're thinking realistically this isn't going to go down because cheapness is never rewarded in the media or by the fans.
Pointguard01 wrote:Gortat will be a Maverick. Book it.

Orlando's not matching.
LakeShowKobe24
Junior
User avatar
Posts: 377
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 11, 2009
Top

Post#19 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 1:12 pm by Maritimer

lakerfan10770 -- Rapsobsessed has it right. "Non-simlutaneous trades" refer to using a TPE at a later date since that's viewed, legally, as completing an earlier trade.

I'm not worried about OKC's incentive -- I think they get enough. Since they don't appear likely to add salary up to the cap this season, they get a net payment of $1M for helping push this deal through.

My concern is whether or not Orlando would be willing to S&T Hedo for a mere 2nd round pick. I doubt they use the TPE this year (though it's possible, if they shed some salary at some point), so I'm not sure if the TPE is enough of a chip for them. If it is, then great. If not, I'd saythat we modify it so that Toronto sends Dallas a future 2nd rounder and Dallas sends Orlando a future 1st rounder (with whatever protection is agreeable).
On LeBron not committing fouls:
Marvin! wrote:He also doesn't poo... his body transforms food into flower seeds, which he then sends to poor inner city neighborhoods and distributes free of charge. Let us all give thanks and praise him!
Maritimer
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 22,369
And1: 26
Joined: Aug 14, 2001
Location: Montreal
Top

Post#20 Re: Raptors Keep MLE+Delfino:Raptors/Dallas/M
Tue Jul 7, 2009 1:14 pm by surflawyer

lakerfan10770 wrote:
Rapsobsessed7 wrote:
lakerfan10770 wrote:Sorry Raps, but you can't combine TPE's, in this deal Toronto would get two, one for $6.2M for Marion and one for $2.9 for Hump.


this isnt two separate deals its all in one, if it was separate that would be the case but its not so yes we would get a 9.1 million TPE because you can add other players in a S&T you dont have to do it separately see the KVH trade and the Eddy Curry trade.


TPE's are only created when one player is traded. So in your scenario, Trading Marion & Humphires would actually be broken into two trades. Otherwise no TPE's would be created at all


From Larry Coon's FAQs, #69:

In some cases, teams have up to one year to acquire the replacement player(s) to complete a trade. These trades are considered non-simultaneous trades. In a non-simultaneous trade, a team can only acquire up to 100% plus $100,000 of the salary it gives up (as opposed to 125% plus $100,000 in a simultaneous trade). A trade in which more than one player is traded away can only be simultaneous; non-simultaneous trades are allowed only when a single player is traded away (although teams can sometimes find ways to configure multi-player trades as multiple single-player trades which are non-simultaneous).


lakerfan is correct and to compound the problem for Orlando is the fact that you can not use a TPE to sign a Free Agent. It can only be used on existing contracts which would necessitate a S&T and it can not be combined with any other "exception" like the MLE to get a higher priced player.
"The first thing we need to do is kill all the attorneys."

William Shakespeare
surflawyer
Analyst
User avatar
Posts: 3,181
And1: 1
Joined: Feb 4, 2006
Location: I love being on everyones IGNORE List ... no one ever disagrees with me ....
Top

Next

Return to Trades and Transactions


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: achimho, cl2117, HartfordWhalers, jgustav1, jowglenn, Laimbeer, mrmsix6, old rem, Reaper22, Smitty731, spree8