LAL - MIN

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LAL - MIN 

Post#1 » by shrink » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:10 pm

LAL GETS: Craig Smith + Sebastian Telfair + Darius Songalia

MIN GETS: Adam Morrison + Jordan Farmar + Josh Powell (or other small filler) + $1.16 mil TPE


Craig Smith .. 19.7 mpg, FG 56.2%, 3.8 RPG, 1.1 APG, 10.1 PPG ($2.3)
S. Telfair ..... 27.9 mpg, FG 38.3%, 1.7 RPG, 4.6 APG, 9.8 PPG ($2.5/$2.7)
Songalia ...... 19.8 mpg, FG 53.2%, 2.9 RPG, 1.2 APG, 7.4 PPG ($4.5/$4.8)

Morrison .... 15.2 mpg, FG 36.0%, 1.6 RPG, 0.9 APG, 4.5 PPG ($5.25)
J. Farmar ... 13.0 mpg, FG 39.1%, 1.4 RPG, 1.7 APG, 4.7 PPG ($1.95)
J Powell ..... 5.2 mpg, FG 42.3%, 1.2 RPG, 0.3 APG, 2.1 PPG ($0.96)

WHY FOR LAL: Lakers get a nice vet upgrade in talent for their bench, and remove some of Odom's leverage in contract negotiations (I'm thinking 1 less year). It costs them money next season, but they have no 2010 salary needs, plenty of revenues, it improves their chances at a championship, and it costs them no real talent.

WHY FOR MIN: Wolves aren't trying to win now, so they take the talent hit to clear $7.5 mil in 2010 cap space. Morrison and Farmar might actually get some minutes this season.
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#2 » by dockingsched » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:20 pm

there isn't much of a talent upgrade for the lakers, especially not enough to take on 7-8 million in salary in '10-'11 just for fun.
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#3 » by Optms » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:23 pm

This is a deal I would not mind LA doing. I'd love to have Craig Smith sitting on the Laker bench.

It appears rather one sided to me, though. But if Minnesota really isn't looking to win this year as much as they are to have more cash available for 20010, then why not. It's trade proposal's like this where I always think to myself "if only."
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#4 » by qclakers » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:27 pm

I could possibly see the Lakers taking Songalia but not Telfair as well. Cut out Farmar and Bassy and I think the Lakers might bite.
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#5 » by daddyfivestar » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:29 pm

I'd suggest taking Powell and Smith out.

Move Telfair to a third team (Clips looking for low cost b/u competition for Taylor and insurance should Dizzle go down).

How about:
Ammo + Farmar + small TPE to Mn
Telfair to Clips
Songaila + Ricky D to Lakers

Minny gets the 2010 relief
LAC gets the b/u PG cheaply
LAL saves $ now for Odom and good big depth

Fisher/Brown
Kobe/Davis/Sasha
Artest/Luke
Gasol/Odom/Powell/Song
Bynum/DJ
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#6 » by dockingsched » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:33 pm

daddyfivestar wrote:I'd suggest taking Powell and Smith out.

Move Telfair to a third team (Clips looking for low cost b/u competition for Taylor and insurance should Dizzle go down).

How about:
Ammo + Farmar + small TPE to Mn
Telfair to Clips
Songaila + Ricky D to Lakers

Minny gets the 2010 relief
LAC gets the b/u PG cheaply
LAL saves $ now for Odom and good big depth

Fisher/Brown
Kobe/Davis/Sasha
Artest/Luke
Gasol/Odom/Powell/Song
Bynum/DJ


lakers add 5mil in salary in '10-'11 to save 500k this season, how does that make financial sense?
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#7 » by Esohny » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:27 pm

I'm assuming that he's not trying to save LA a lot of money, but upgrade their bench. I mean, how much money do they make from repeating as champions?
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#8 » by shrink » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:22 pm

Esohny wrote:I'm assuming that he's not trying to save LA a lot of money, but upgrade their bench. I mean, how much money do they make from repeating as champions?


Exactly. The Lakers already make tons of revenue, and a greater chance improving the team's bench that improves the team's chance of repeating probably makes enough revenue to pay for next year's salary. More importantly, it helps give LAL bargaining power with Lamar Odom, who could really cost them money on a long contract.

More importantly, look who you're giving up here. Morrison is barely going to help at all (let's say $1 mil in production), and you're wasting $5.25 mil on the guy. Telfair's probably worth his contract, and lets say that Songalia is worth about $2.5 mil in today's dollars. LAL wastes about the same amount of money on Morrison as they would on Telfair and Songalia, but they get two years of far better production. I'm assuming here that LAL could sign a player at even value with the same amount next year, but I should point out that doing it this way saves LAL's MLE as well,

I'd also say that Craig Smith at $2 mil is probably worth more to the Lakers than Powell and Farmar. Smith's under-sized but is incredibly quick and strong, and remember we're only seeing part of what he can do because he's such a bad fit in MIN, with so many PF's and no big center to back him up. I think Smith would look nice next to Bynum or Gasol.

As for the alterations, I don't mind either one for MIN. If the Lakers prefer Farmar to Telfair - that's cool. I think Telfair can be dealt elsewhere with a salary-neutral deal for a back-up PG. Doing it with a third team that saves Smith is even better for the Wolves.

The bottom-line for me was just trying to improve the Lakers bench using money, but bad talent/wasted roster spots, and rob Odom of some of his negotiating power that really could cost LAL money -- and more than just two-year deals.
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#9 » by microfib4thewin » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:40 pm

I agree with dcash, it's simply not enough of a talent upgrade to pay 12 mil more(plus tax) in 2011. This pretty much defeats the purpose of trading Vlad for Morrison.
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#10 » by shrink » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:46 pm

microfib4thewin wrote:I agree with dcash, it's simply not enough of a talent upgrade to pay 12 mil more(plus tax) in 2011. This pretty much defeats the purpose of trading Vlad for Morrison.


Is it enough talent upgrade for $8.6 mil (plus tax)? And that's assuming LAL has to still use the MLE in both circumstances.

Vlad cost 50% more than Songalia. Is he a 50% better back-up?
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#11 » by loserX » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:56 pm

Lakers shouldn't take on that much lux tax money (let's not forget the extra $2M+ this year!) for end-of-the-bench guys. If Odom IS re-signed, that money is pretty much completely wasted since neither Songaila nor Smith is likely to see the court for any real minutes.
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#12 » by dockingsched » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:11 pm

loserX wrote:Lakers shouldn't take on that much lux tax money (let's not forget the extra $2M+ this year!) for end-of-the-bench guys. If Odom IS re-signed, that money is pretty much completely wasted since neither Songaila nor Smith is likely to see the court for any real minutes.



exactly. who cares if songalia is better than morisson, both are probably sitting on the inactive list all season barring injuries anyway. telfair and farmar are a wash, and smith doesn't even see the court with gasol/odom on the team. no one wants to pay 12mil in expenses in '10-'11 to have better 12th and 13th men.
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#13 » by 4peter64 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:23 pm

Foolish concept. LAL should use its expiring to acquire better talent on a lower priced contract like in the Rad trade. Morrison's deal is attractive b/c it expires. LA should look for a cheaper talent with a multi-year contract. For example, Charlie Bell or Keith Bogans in Mil. and Louis Williams or Willie Green in Phil. Minn does not have the past that LA needs. LA will need to replace Morrison next season (teams must have 13 players), so they should seek to add a player at a good contract for a couple of years.

Farmar won't ever start, so he could be packaged with Ammo for Bogans and Williams in a 3-team trade with any number of combinations. Filler like Stoudemare, Jason Smith and Powell can be used to round out the scenarios if needed. Can be expanded to include Bell if desireable.

LA: Farmar($1.9) & Ammo($5.2) out; Louis Williams ($4.9) & Bogans (vet min $1.2) in
Williams could start in the triangle; Bogans will support the 1,2 and 3 positions. Both shoot 3s and defend.

Philly: Williams &, if necessary, Smith ($1.4)out; Sessions (S&T) and Ridnour ($6.4) in
Philly really wants Sessions to bridge to Holiday or to run a dual PG. Create minutes for Holiday as well. An upgrade over Miller, thus better use of its smallish cap space. Ridnour is the price of admission

Mil: Ridnour & Sessions out; Farmer and Morrison in
Better b/u for Jennings and others; value for Sessions; salary relief for Ridnour

Mil may want Smith and have the non-guaranteed salaries of Stoudamare and Bowen to offer.
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#14 » by 4peter64 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:24 pm

Foolish concept. LAL should use its expiring to acquire better talent on a lower priced contract like in the Rad trade. Morrison's deal is attractive b/c it expires. LA should look for a cheaper talent with a multi-year contract. For example, Charlie Bell or Keith Bogans in Mil. and Louis Williams or Willie Green in Phil. Minn does not have the past that LA needs. LA will need to replace Morrison next season (teams must have 13 players), so they should seek to add a player at a good contract for a couple of years.

Farmar won't ever start, so he could be packaged with Ammo for Bogans and Williams in a 3-team trade with any number of combinations. Filler like Stoudemare, Jason Smith and Powell can be used to round out the scenarios if needed. Can be expanded to include Bell if desireable.

LA: Farmar($1.9) & Ammo($5.2) out; Louis Williams ($4.9) & Bogans (vet min $1.2) in
Williams could start in the triangle; Bogans will support the 1,2 and 3 positions. Both shoot 3s and defend.

Philly: Williams &, if necessary, Smith ($1.4)out; Sessions (S&T) and Ridnour ($6.4) in
Philly really wants Sessions to bridge to Holiday or to run a dual PG. Create minutes for Holiday as well. An upgrade over Miller, thus better use of its smallish cap space. Ridnour is the price of admission

Mil: Ridnour & Sessions out; Farmer and Morrison in
Better b/u for Jennings and others; value for Sessions; salary relief for Ridnour

Mil may want Smith and have the non-guaranteed salaries of Stoudamare and Bowen to offer.
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#15 » by tviper » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:10 pm

dcash4 wrote:
loserX wrote:Lakers shouldn't take on that much lux tax money (let's not forget the extra $2M+ this year!) for end-of-the-bench guys. If Odom IS re-signed, that money is pretty much completely wasted since neither Songaila nor Smith is likely to see the court for any real minutes.



exactly. who cares if songalia is better than morisson, both are probably sitting on the inactive list all season barring injuries anyway. telfair and farmar are a wash, and smith doesn't even see the court with gasol/odom on the team. no one wants to pay 12mil in expenses in '10-'11 to have better 12th and 13th men.


I concur with this. The Lakers are looking to minimize tax payments, so this deal makes no sense. If Ammo is moved with Farmar, it will be to a team that can eat the salary...guess that means OK City (doubtful) and POR (extremely unlikely). Remember that ShanWOW was signed using the bi-annual exception, meaning Farmar is now third on the depth chart, and Ammo didn't even suit up most of his stay last year. Thus, upgrading the bench isn't an issue for the Lakers.
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#16 » by Hoops23 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:15 pm

Problem with the deal for LAL is, the contract of Songaila and Telfair that extend one more year than Morison's contract. The Lakers are already way aboe the tax, I think they will let Morison walk for nothing next year.
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#17 » by shrink » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:27 pm

tviper wrote: The Lakers are looking to minimize tax payments, so this deal makes no sense.


Why? I thought the Lakers were looking to maximize their chances of winning another ring?

Players like Morrison, Powell, and to a lesser extent Farmar, are wasted money and roster spots that reduce the LAL chances.

CLE tried to go cheap last trade deadline, and refused to deal expirings to save cash, and they were also making plenty of revenue even while paying lux payments. See where that got them.

Hoops23 wrote:Problem with the deal for LAL is, the contract of Songaila and Telfair that extend one more year than Morison's contract. The Lakers are already way aboe the tax, I think they will let Morison walk for nothing next year.


Yes - that's why MIN is willing to give away more productive players for walking 2009-10 cash-holes
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#18 » by tviper » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:39 pm

shrink wrote:
tviper wrote: The Lakers are looking to minimize tax payments, so this deal makes no sense.


Why? I thought the Lakers were looking to maximize their chances of winning another ring?

Players like Morrison, Powell, and to a lesser extent Farmar, are wasted money and roster spots that reduce the LAL chances.

CLE tried to go cheap last trade deadline, and refused to deal expirings to save cash, and they were also making plenty of revenue even while paying lux payments. See where that got them.


Lakers ring chances aren't dependent on end-of-the-bench guys. Further, Dr. Buss has always viewed the tax payment as something to avoid if possible, or minimize if necessary. With the current economy, I imagine this outlook is intensified. With the Odom signing (and people, please stop with the sign and trade nonsense. If the Lakers were willing to take back salary, they would just sign Odom outright), the Lakers will be paying significant tax. The Lakers have a championship roster that was bolstered with the Artest signing. Thus, the only player movement will be to reduce the tax payment, meaning this trade idea is DOA.
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#19 » by dockingsched » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:55 pm

powell and farmar are cash holes? they make less than 3mil combined! powell is a steal at less than 1mil
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Re: LAL - MIN 

Post#20 » by Hoops23 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:23 am

shrink wrote:Yes - that's why MIN is willing to give away more productive players for walking 2009-10 cash-holes
What MIN is giving LAL is additional salaries and tax payments for 2010-11.

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