LAC/DAL/DET - tired+tired=new'

[sammydavis]

Here's my 'tired trade+tired trade=new trade' version that Ecuhus invented.

It's the trade I posted in the 1st round of the current trade tournament. It's the 2nd round now so I can ask what you all think. Thx!


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=qnf8vs

LAC out:
Camby (9.1M), Kaman (10.4M), R.Davis (2.4M), M.Collins (1.8M)
Total: 23.7M

LAC in:
J.Howard (10.8M), K.Brown (4M), JJ Barea (1.6M), S.Williams (2.4M), '11 LAC 2nd returned (from DET)
Total: 18.8M

B.Davis/Telfair/M.Taylor
E.Gordon/R.Butler/Barea
J.Howard/Thornton/Williams
Griffin/C.Smith
D.Jordan/K.Brown/Madsen

Why?
Plus:
- turning Camby into something of value,
- getting rid of Kaman's long deal,
- handing the reins to Jordan (why not if you already commit to your young core?),
- getting a serviceable backup C in Brown (he wouldn't pout as much as Kaman when only playing 20ish minutes),
- getting rid of RickyD,
- turning Collins into a better player in Barea,
- creating the possibility to turn Thornton into a 6th man, a role that the coach thinks fits him better.
- even better financial situation in 2010(!!)
- better 2010 means possibility of better offer to Sessions...
Minus:
- dealing away almost all of the strength the team had (quality big man depth),
- handing the team totally to Baron (no Camby-tpe calming influence in dressing room),
- I really cannot think of another negative than maybe taking on another 1/1 bust (Brown)

DAL out:
J.Howard (10.8M), M.Carroll (4.7M), JJ Barea (1.6M), S.Williams (2.4M), '12 DAL 1st (top15 protected in '12, top5 protected in '13, unprotected in '14)
Total: 19.5M

DAL in:
Camby (9.1M), R.Hamilton (11.3M), R.Davis (2.4M)
Total: 22.8M

Kidd/Beabuois/Terry
Hamilton/Terry/Buckner
Marion/Thomas/Ross
Nowitzki/Gooden/Humphries
Camby/Dampier/Jawai

Why: DAL goes even more all-in during the Nowitzki-Kidd era. Camby slides into the starting 5 and plays a lot thus making Dampier's '11 contract guarantee a sure 'no' (that's another trade chip DAL will have next summer). If Donnie Nelson can sign Camby to an extension next summer, all the better. Turning Howard into Hamilton eats a lot into next year's capspace but the Mavs showed this summer that any '10 strategies they might have had have been abandoned. Howard was a bit of a headcase anyway and Hamilton fits their SG need (at least he's not out of position there as Howard would've been). Ricky D provides some motivation for LAC to do the deal and some depth on the wings. I mean deep depth. Carroll-type minutes are to be expected. The pick they lose is one way to get DET involved in this.

DET out:
R.Hamilton (11.3M), K.Brown (4M), '11 LAC 2nd returned
Total: 15.3M

DET in:
Kaman (10.4M), M.Carroll (4.7M), M.Collins (1.8M), '12 DAL 1st (top15 protected in '12, top5 protected in '13, unprotected in '14)
Total: 16.9M

Stuckey/Bynum/Collins
Gordon/Carroll
Prince/Summers/Jerebko
Villanueva/Maxiell/Daye
Kaman/Wilcox/Big Ben

Why: turning Hamilton's long contract into Kaman's long but still shorter contract which is really trading from strength to weakness. Taking on Carroll's contract sucks but he's a capable long range shooter who can provide some bombs when Gordon sits. And the contract is declining anyway. Collins provides some depth and D at PG/SG that was lost when they traded away Afflalo. The pick is to compensate for Carroll's contract. All in all they clear a logjam at SG to fill a need at C. They get a shooter to compliment the other shooters AND a C that can operate when defenses collapse on the shooters. I could go on...

[realball]

Take out the Dallas 1st and replace Carroll with Buckner. And I don't think the value is bad for the Clippers, but their C rotation goes from one of the best to one of the worst. I don't think the Clippers are ready to just hand DJ the starting spot just yet.

[NCHeels2008]

If Griffin can provide weakside shotblocking and rebounding, Kwame isnt a bad fit

[catalyst]

cannot trade picks in consecutive drafts. Also, davis did not make final mavs roster.

[JES12]

This is all kinds of no from Dallas.

Replace Howard with Terry, remove the future pick and change Camby to Kaman and then we can negotiate. Til then, there is no starting point to negotiations. (we don't want Hamilton unless Terry is leaving and we have no interest in in giving value for 35 year old rentals like Camby).

[sammydavis]

cannot trade picks in consecutive drafts. Also, davis did not make final mavs roster.

The pick is a '12 pick and DAL owes its '10 pick to NJ so I don't believe its consecutive. As for Davis, I figured they'd just buy him out unless they could trade Buckner and someone else away in a 2for1 or something.

[sammydavis]

Take out the Dallas 1st and replace Carroll with Buckner.

That works, thanks. I think DET fans would like it more too. But doesn't DAL have too many SGs then?

And I don't think the value is bad for the Clippers, but their C rotation goes from one of the best to one of the worst. I don't think the Clippers are ready to just hand DJ the starting spot just yet.

Yeah, I think I'm higher on DeAndre than most, but I must admit I put the trade together assuming Kwame is a capable rental until Jordan is ready to take over full time. On the other hand, Camby (or Kaman for that matter) would undoubtedly be a MUCH better mentor to DJ than Kwame.

[sammydavis]

This is all kinds of no from Dallas.

Replace Howard with Terry, remove the future pick and change Camby to Kaman and then we can negotiate. Til then, there is no starting point to negotiations. (we don't want Hamilton unless Terry is leaving and we have no interest in in giving value for 35 year old rentals like Camby).

I see your points and from a DAL pov I can agree. But would anyone in this trade want Terry? Would DET trade Hamilton if they'd 'only' get Camby instead of Kaman? That'd be a salary dump, yes. But would it be worth it for them? I don't see the Clips or the Pistons making the deal if Terry is involved.

[jgustav1]

Take out the Dallas 1st and replace Carroll with Buckner.

That works, thanks. I think DET fans would like it more too. But doesn't DAL have too many SGs then?

And I don't think the value is bad for the Clippers, but their C rotation goes from one of the best to one of the worst. I don't think the Clippers are ready to just hand DJ the starting spot just yet.

Yeah, I think I'm higher on DeAndre than most, but I must admit I put the trade together assuming Kwame is a capable rental until Jordan is ready to take over full time. On the other hand, Camby (or Kaman for that matter) would undoubtedly be a MUCH better mentor to DJ than Kwame.

Clippers would like to keep Camby and they wouldn't want to receive Kwame as part of the trade.

[JES12]

That may be so. I know Detroit would not want Terry with Gordon. Some LAC fans have shown interest in Terry-Kaman in the past, but it was a minority. And if that is the case (neither team wanting Terry), this proposal is a complete failure.

Thre is nothing coming to Dallas that would entice us to part with Howard.

[realball]

That may be so. I know Detroit would not want Terry with Gordon. Some LAC fans have shown interest in Terry-Kaman in the past, but it was a minority. And if that is the case (neither team wanting Terry), this proposal is a complete failure.

Thre is nothing coming to Dallas that would entice us to part with Howard.

Please. Howard is not worth more than Hamilton whatsoever. Hamilton is about 2 years older than Howard and far more durable, so it's not like age or injuries a big factor here. They are about equally effective, except that Hamilton is actually a SG. He doesn't suffer from inconsistencies and his play doesn't drop in the playoffs or 4th quarter. And they turn all their crap into Camby. If it were just Buckner instead of Carroll and the pick, the deal would fair.

[loflin3hree5ive]

Why?
Plus:
- turning Camby into something of value

LOL, are you serious? We're not talking Dan Gadzuric here...

[catalyst]

cannot trade picks in consecutive drafts. Also, davis did not make final mavs roster.

The pick is a '12 pick and DAL owes its '10 pick to NJ so I don't believe its consecutive. As for Davis, I figured they'd just buy him out unless they could trade Buckner and someone else away in a 2for1 or something.

I misread that you wanted the 12, 13, and 14. That was protection of the pick. So Sorry

[thaAteam]

how about just marion, ross, and humphries for kaman at the deadline or dec 15th

[JES12]

That may be so. I know Detroit would not want Terry with Gordon. Some LAC fans have shown interest in Terry-Kaman in the past, but it was a minority. And if that is the case (neither team wanting Terry), this proposal is a complete failure.

Thre is nothing coming to Dallas that would entice us to part with Howard.

Please. Howard is not worth more than Hamilton whatsoever. Hamilton is about 2 years older than Howard and far more durable, so it's not like age or injuries a big factor here. They are about equally effective, except that Hamilton is actually a SG. He doesn't suffer from inconsistencies and his play doesn't drop in the playoffs or 4th quarter. And they turn all their crap into Camby. If it were just Buckner instead of Carroll and the pick, the deal would fair.

Please...we have the SG spot covered with Terry and Howard. Hamilton is not better than either one of them. But he is older and more expensive.

[TheNewEra]

Take out the Dallas 1st and replace Carroll with Buckner.

That works, thanks. I think DET fans would like it more too. But doesn't DAL have too many SGs then?

And I don't think the value is bad for the Clippers, but their C rotation goes from one of the best to one of the worst. I don't think the Clippers are ready to just hand DJ the starting spot just yet.

Yeah, I think I'm higher on DeAndre than most, but I must admit I put the trade together assuming Kwame is a capable rental until Jordan is ready to take over full time. On the other hand, Camby (or Kaman for that matter) would undoubtedly be a MUCH better mentor to DJ than Kwame.

Clippers would like to keep Camby and they wouldn't want to receive Kwame as part of the trade.

Not for trading Kaman but if we we can re-work the deal where we can dela Camby and expirings for Howard and Brown I'm all for it