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NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs

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Post#1 NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Mon Nov 2, 2009 12:37 pm by Trader_Joe

Harris
Najera
Dooling
$3m
2010 #2

for

Augustine
Felton
Bell
2012 #1 (top 3 protection in 2012, #1 protection in 2013)


BOBCATS
Harris / Dooling
G.Henderson / F.Murray / S.Graham
G.Wallace / Radmonovic
Diaw / Ajinca / Najera
Chandler / Diop / Mohammed

- LB gets AI lite in Harris as in much needed scoring
- Felton may have been a goner after this season
- Najera and Dooling are LB type players
- Cash would appeal to struggling franchise


NETS
Felton / Alston / Augustin
C.Lee / Bell / Hassell
T.Williams / CDR / Hayes
Yi / S.Williams / Simmons
Lopez / Boone / Battie

- NJ would have enough cap space to sign 2 max FAs in 2010 after Felton is renounced
($10m in extra cap space or ~$35m total)
- Augustin/#1 the prospects of the trade
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Post#2 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Mon Nov 2, 2009 12:39 pm by amcoolio

Sorry, but in no way does an injured Harris command that much. Take out Felton and replace with Nazr, and I'll ok it.
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Post#3 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Mon Nov 2, 2009 12:48 pm by Trader_Joe

amcoolio wrote:Sorry, but in no way does an injured Harris command that much. Take out Felton and replace with Nazr, and I'll ok it.


The whole point is for NJ to get two max FAs, so Nazr makes no sense.
I'd be willing to play with the protection on the pick, or be able to include other peices besides Dooling (Hayes, Hassell, Alston, S.Williams, Boone, Battie)

Question... do you think Felton will be part of the Bobcats after this season?

My assumption was that he would not be, and thus the inclusion.
Between the contract negotiations last summer, and all the teams with money to spend, it seems very possible that he is a goner.

From the Nets perspective, Felton would just be a one season rental, and simply an expirer in this scenario, but needed to make contracts work.
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Post#4 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Mon Nov 2, 2009 2:19 pm by ecuhus1981

amcoolio wrote:Sorry, but in no way does an injured Harris command that much. Take out Felton and replace with Nazr, and I'll ok it.

You're a joke.

First of all, "that much"?!?!?! :roll: DJ is inconsistent and doesn't look like he could ever be a contender's starting PG. I honestly don't know if he would fit our needs any better than Marcus Williams did. Felton is atrociously inefficient, and is going to be hunting for a paycheck next summer. He'd have chucker-itis all season long on our team, which is exactly what we don't need. Raja would have decent value to other teams IF he were healthy; but he's not, and the last thing we need is another swingman. The '12 pick is too far off to trade an All-Star.

Secondly, Devin is out 7-10 days with a groin strain. The only reason we're holding him out that long is because we have depth to spare at the PG spot, and we need him to lead when he returns to the court, not just get by with an injury that would nag him all season long without proper rest if he came back earlier. To suggest that his trade value has suddenly plummeted because of this is ludicrous.

In case there was any doubt, I'll make it perfectly clear: there is NOTHING the Bobcats can offer, not even DJ/Raja/unprotected '10 1st, that would make me want to trade Devin. Let all CHA-NJN trade discussions cease.

P.S. Thx 4 Brook.
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Post#5 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Mon Nov 2, 2009 2:33 pm by Trader_Joe

The '12 pick is too far off to trade an All-Star.


Charlotte can't trade earlier can they?
I wanted 2011 (to delay salary), but they owe their pick to Minny this year I believe.

Secondly, Devin is out 7-10 days with a groin strain. The only reason we're holding him out that long is because we have depth to spare at the PG spot, and we need him to lead when he returns to the court, not just get by with an injury that would nag him all season long without proper rest if he came back earlier. To suggest that his trade value has suddenly plummeted because of this is ludicrous.


Hmmm.... I don't know Euch.
I think something is up. We're not that deep at PG with Dooling and Harris out.
I've heard some speculation there may be more to this injury since it has been so troubelsome, but regardless, Harris' pattern of missing games, cannot be ignored. He was traded to NJ injured 1.5 seasons ago, and it's been non-stop since then.

In case there was any doubt, I'll make it perfectly clear: there is NOTHING the Bobcats can offer, not even DJ/Raja/unprotected '10 1st, that would make me want to trade Devin. Let all CHA-NJN trade discussions cease.


Again.... really I know I'm hung up on this. But if we have the chance to form a dynasty with two max FAs thanks to cap space and our new owner, I think we have to give us that chance. I think we can land LBJ or Wade.. but ONLY if we can secure another max FA for them to come and play with them. This is a once in a life-time chance to become a dynasty.. I think we have to go for it.

LBJ or Wade
Bosh or Amare
Augustine
CHA #1

or

Bosh or Amare
Harris
$8m more in cap

With $35m in cap space, good things are bound to happen.

P.S. Thx 4 Brook

:lol:
Should we thank them for Terrance Williams as well since LB and Charlotte really hyped him before the draft and wanted him badly?
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Post#6 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Mon Nov 2, 2009 8:36 pm by Trader_Joe

Wow.. speaking of these two teams, this is one of the most painful games I have seen in a long time.
Augustin is looking nice. I like this kid.

Still wondering from any Charlotte fans.. if there are any besides Amcoolio what they think happens with Felton after this season.

I see record lows happening tonight in this game, btw.
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Post#7 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 2:30 pm by Rich4114

I would do this, but we can't trade our pick, owed to Minn
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Post#8 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 2:49 pm by moocow007

Honestly this would make a lot of sense for Charlotte. As of right now they have no one that really can be viewed as an All-Star. Gerald Wallace is the closest and he's really more of a 2nd guy rather than your no.1 option. Harris would do that. Charlotte will also be really struggling to score lacking anyone that really can create shots both for himself and others and force opposing defenses to work. Harris would do that. They are also at a point where they are rebuilding. So adding a young extremely talented star as a cornerstone type would be a good idea. Harris would do that.

The only issue I can see that would be of a concern from a fans perspective is 1st round pick which people tend to want to keep hold off as if it's guaranteed gold.

Otherwise you're basically consolidating three lesser players (two of whom likely won't be back...or who, if they want to be cack, can be resigned at the end of the season even if they do this deal) for one greater player that they otherwise will be hard pressed to find. Harris and Gerald Henderson would give the Cats an extremely dynamic backcourt that could be deadly. And Harris is a significant upgrade over Felton or Augustine.

From the Nets standpoint, as far as 2 Max FA's go? I think your selling point for any max FA (include THE max FA) is Harris. It's not really about the arena in all honesty (since the plan for the refurbishment of MSG is amazing) nor about the winning (the Nets stink as much as the Knicks do) but rather about who is on the team already (aka Harris). He's the main attraction.
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Post#9 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:20 pm by Trader_Joe

For a FA to go to NJ, I think the incentives will be

- money. NJ will have $25m of it to spend even w/o this deal
- Russia's richest man/billionaire owning the team
- the impending move to Brooklyn
- NJ assets (cap space, draft picks, young talent)
- Lopez and Harris
- the abibility to pair up a 2nd max FA with this trade

In general, I'm not sure how many star players are going to want to come play with a score/me-first oft-injured PG. I can think of dozens of others players, I'd rather play with before Harris comes to mind, including Lopez.

Again, I think the oppurtunity to go to two of LBJ, Wade, Bosh, Amare, JJ and pair them up is a dream come true, and something NYK fans have been thinking about for some time. Now NJ gets to potentially have that right.
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Post#10 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:38 pm by deviljets7

The value is solid, but a third team should be involved to take Felton. Merely letting Felton expire (and not handing over the keys to Augustin right away) would be a very poor use of resources.
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Post#11 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:41 pm by spectre_

I think this puts us into LT land this year...which won't happen.

I really like Devin Harris, but his recent injury history is kind of troublesome.

In '11 we'd have Harris/Crash/Boris/Gana/Ajinca/Najera with a total salary of around 39 million with Gana's 7 and Najera's 3 dropping the next season...not bad.

The deal is good for the most part, but for a team so in need of talent I'm extremely loathe to part with another pick while our current is already owed to another team. Not saying NJN doesn't deserve the pick in this package...but to me it's a holdup.
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Post#12 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:43 pm by Cammo101

You NJ guys are really pushing your luck here. Keep your good players and be happy if a max level guy wants to come to NJ. You would look awful dumb if you trade Harris away and then can't land any of the big names.

While it is trendy to want to go on a spending spree, the fact of the matter is that big name free agents usually re-up where they are. So the likelihood of getting 2 of them is not promising.
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PG - De. Williams/CJ Watson/T. Douglas
SG - D. DeRozan/J. Terry/J. Selby
SF - P. Pierce/A. Aminu/T. Harris
PF - K. Humphries/E. Davis/H. Whiteside
C - C. Kaman/Ja. Smith/H. Thabeet
Coach - L. Frank
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Post#13 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:47 pm by Trader_Joe

spectre_ wrote:I think this puts us into LT land this year...which won't happen.

I really like Devin Harris, but his recent injury history is kind of troublesome.

In '11 we'd have Harris/Crash/Boris/Gana/Ajinca/Najera with a total salary of around 39 million with Gana's 7 and Najera's 3 dropping the next season...not bad.

The deal is good for the most part, but for a team so in need of talent I'm extremely loathe to part with another pick while our current is already owed to another team. Not saying NJN doesn't deserve the pick in this package...but to me it's a holdup.


This trade adds about $1.5m in payroll for Charlotte, but NJ is also sending you $3m.
Not sure if that puts you in LT area, but the cash from NJ should off-set it.

Also keep in mind Dooling can be bought out for 500k next season, and Najera for 2.5m.
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Post#14 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:52 pm by Trader_Joe

Cammo101 wrote:You NJ guys are really pushing your luck here. Keep your good players and be happy if a max level guy wants to come to NJ. You would look awful dumb if you trade Harris away and then can't land any of the big names.

While it is trendy to want to go on a spending spree, the fact of the matter is that big name free agents usually re-up where they are. So the likelihood of getting 2 of them is not promising.


Maybe, maybe not.
The chance of getting 2 max FAs and becoming a possible dynasty overnight is intriguing.
If not, $35m in cap space is bound to turn into something good.

Augustin
C.Lee
T.Williams / CDR
Yi
Lopez
+
NJ #1 (top 5)
DAL #1
#2
+
$35m

=

:D
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Post#15 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:52 pm by Cammo101

Your not the first to come up with this plan and it rarely works out how the teams wanted.
B-a-T: Charlotte Bobcats
PG - De. Williams/CJ Watson/T. Douglas
SG - D. DeRozan/J. Terry/J. Selby
SF - P. Pierce/A. Aminu/T. Harris
PF - K. Humphries/E. Davis/H. Whiteside
C - C. Kaman/Ja. Smith/H. Thabeet
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Post#16 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:53 pm by Trader_Joe

Cammo101 wrote:Your not the first to come up with this plan and it rarely works out how the teams wanted.


What team in the past has had money for 2 Max FAs going into a summer where multiple Max level FA's were available?

I'm not sure there is a basis for your statement, as I don't think there has been that similar a situation before.
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Post#17 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:57 pm by Cammo101

Trader_Joe wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:Your not the first to come up with this plan and it rarely works out how the teams wanted.


What team in the past has had money for 2 Max FAs going into a summer where multiple Max level FA's were available?

I'm not sure there is a basis for your statement, as I don't think there has been that similar a situation before.


Orlando did and planned to bring in Duncan and Grant Hill to rule the league. Duncan went back to San Antonio and Grant Hill got hurt.

NY is doing the same thing right now.
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PG - De. Williams/CJ Watson/T. Douglas
SG - D. DeRozan/J. Terry/J. Selby
SF - P. Pierce/A. Aminu/T. Harris
PF - K. Humphries/E. Davis/H. Whiteside
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Post#18 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 4:07 pm by Trader_Joe

Cammo101 wrote:
Orlando did and planned to bring in Duncan and Grant Hill to rule the league. Duncan went back to San Antonio and Grant Hill got hurt.

NY is doing the same thing right now.


OK.. I remmeber the Orlando situation now. But that is the one time I think it has ever happened.

NY has had this idea for some time, but they would still need to unload about $10m more in salary, as in some combination of Curry, Jeffries, Gallo, Hill, Chandler.

Again, I don't think $35m would be hard to spend with players like these around:

LBJ
Wade
Bosh
Amare
JJ
Boozer
Lee
Gay
Scola

etc...

Not to mention all the 2011 NBA FAs that NJ could pursue if they don't use all their money.
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Post#19 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 4:10 pm by deviljets7

Cammo101 wrote:You NJ guys are really pushing your luck here. Keep your good players and be happy if a max level guy wants to come to NJ. You would look awful dumb if you trade Harris away and then can't land any of the big names.

While it is trendy to want to go on a spending spree, the fact of the matter is that big name free agents usually re-up where they are. So the likelihood of getting 2 of them is not promising.


I agree with you. Part of the reason teams like Atlanta and Memphis couldn't give away their cap money is because of the lack of supporting cast around a potential free agent.

Is Harris a player with some flaws? Yes he is. But without him NJ is a 12-15 win team. As good as Lopez and Terrence Williams may look, that can't be an appealing situation for LeBron or any other free agent.
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Post#20 Re: NJN / CHA - Harris for 2 Max FAs
Wed Nov 4, 2009 4:12 pm by Trader_Joe

deviljets7 wrote:I agree with you. Part of the reason teams like Atlanta and Memphis couldn't give away their cap money is because of the lack of supporting cast around a potential free agent.

Is Harris a player with some flaws? Yes he is. But without him NJ is a 12-15 win team. As good as Lopez and Terrence Williams may look, that can't be an appealing situation for LeBron or any other free agent.


Again....

For a FA to go to NJ, I think the incentives will be

- money. NJ will have $25m of it to spend even w/o this deal
- Russia's richest man/billionaire owning the team
- the impending move to Brooklyn
- NJ assets (cap space, draft picks, young talent)
- Lopez and Harris
- the abibility to pair up a 2nd max FA with this trade

And NJ may be a 12-15 win team w/o Harris, but they will be lucky to get 20 even with him this season.
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