Salmons and Taj for Outlaw and Rudy

[Wizenheimer]

you went to a bit of work to post this...replies to the notion of Portland adding the 9 million/yr Hinrich to the 7 million/yr Miller....which has nothing to do with this thread

Hinrich' contract shouldn't be an obstacle for a potential acquisition.

What??

are you saying that the contracts players have don't bear on their trade value?

What was it that you thought you were proving?

Hinrich, Salmons, James Johnson (/Taj Gibson) and a first werrn't providing enough "value" for Rudy Fernandez from PDX fanbase' POV about two / three weeks ago. He wanted to know thoughts, I provided him with a lot of thoughts, heavily concentrated in one post, though.

oh boy....distort things much?

those Chicago assets weren't just getting Rudy. Portland was also shipping out Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw, & Jerry Bayless. That's not a one-sided trade, especially considering the cap-space it would create for Chicago next summer

Personally, as a Blazer fan, I don't find that trade to be too bad at all. If something could be done to lock Salmons in for longer then a year, then it's a tempting trade

It's also too big a change in the rotation for Portland's conservative GM though

[Chi town]

IMO Salmons will sign for just over the MLE to a team with cap space on a four year deal or sign the MLE but want the full 6 years which may not be a good contract because he is already 29 and will be 30 by the end of this year.

Does POR plan on resigning Outlaw for letting him walk for nothing? How much money do you think Outlaw will sign for?

[Spykes]

IMO Salmons will sign for just over the MLE to a team with cap space on a four year deal or sign the MLE but want the full 6 years which may not be a good contract because he is already 29 and will be 30 by the end of this year.

At his age, no team will give him a full 6 year contract. Not without some kind of TO weighed heavily in the teams best interest. If he signs something above the MLE, it'll probably be at most a 4 year contract. If he signs at the MLE, he might be able to squeeze out 5 years.

Does POR plan on resigning Outlaw for letting him walk for nothing? How much money do you think Outlaw will sign for?

Not a clue to be honest. The team, nor Outlaw, have given any indication one way or another on that. The first part is completely unanswerable.

As for what kind of contract Outlaw will get... I wouldn't be the bit surprised to see Travis get a MLE contract. He's been constant in averaging around 10-13ppg as an instant-offense 6th man for the good Blazer teams the last few years. He's been great in the clutch, he can play either forward spot and he's still relatively young. He's got a few flaws and in general, I don't think you'll see his game expand a ton over where it already is. But... if a team signs him and gives him a starting job where he'd be a main offensive weapon, you could easily see his numbers jump to the 16-18ppg range.

[Chi town]

I agree about Outlaw's assessment. I could see someone needing shooting giving him the full MLE but not as a backup, only as a starter getting 30mpg. I think he still has room for improvement.

With Vescey reporting that a source believes Lebron will sign with the Bulls it sounds like we won't need Outlaw... haha. Long shot. I don't think it will happen.

[Spykes]

I agree about Outlaw's assessment. I could see someone needing shooting giving him the full MLE but not as a backup, only as a starter getting 30mpg. I think he still has room for improvement.

With Vescey reporting that a source believes Lebron will sign with the Bulls it sounds like we won't need Outlaw... haha. Long shot. I don't think it will happen.

I stopped reading your post at the bolded words.

Outlaw is a nice player if you need him. He can provide a nice scoring punch, but I don't think the Bulls would need him that badly. He'd likely play a very similar role in Chicago that he plays in Portland. A goto scorer off-the-bench as a 6th or 7th man. I don't think he's quite what the Bulls are looking for in a PF tho.

I always think it's crazy how much crap Outlaw gets on these boards from general NBA fans and some Blazer fans alike. The guy is what he is. He's a really solid role player on a good team, and I believe he can be a Rudy Gay level player if he's starting on a bad team. He's not much of a rebounder, his weak side defense is solid, but just so-so defensively. He's gonna have some bad games here and there. He'll also make some mistakes here and there, but those mistakes are fewer than they used to be and they're fairly overblown by Blazer fans who soured on his when he used to make those mistakes more often. As a result of this and a poor showing in his first every playoff series, people act like he's a scrub and a fringe NBA player.

[Chi town]

I don't see Outlaw's ceiling that high.

With Deng and Rose not being 3 pt shooters the Bulls need two players that can really stick the 3 ball and space the court for Rose to penetrate.

Ideally, the Bulls get Bosh in FA ( I don't think LBJ will come, I think Wade will although iMO the Bulls FO wants Bosh first). If we get Bosh we would let Tyrus walk or trade him for a pick. If we can swing Salmons and Taj for Rudy and Outlaw we would have a team that FITS very well.

Rose/Hinrich
Rudy/Hinrich
Deng/Outlaw
Bosh/Outlaw
Noah/Omer

[BR0D1E86]

Thoughts?

Here's a best of Portland's fanbase

Hinrich to Portland is dead with Andre Miller there. Not entirely relevant, but I found that to be an absolutely terrible fit for that team.

Hey - I'm not a Portland fan.

And how is a comment that Portland won't want Hinrich because of Miller, combined with the fact that I thought Miller a poor fit for Portland, worthy of ridicule?

[Ray Allen Iverson]

You're talking about Hinrich to Portland when they already signed Miller.

With Blake and Fernandez going out, Hinrich, Miller and Roy would form a balanced rotation.

Why would Chicago trade Hinrich? He is like the glue for their defense. Without them, they immediately flip back to a struggling defensive team. He sets the team up defensively, and can hit the 3. Even if Rudy was traded in this deal, Chicago would still keep him.

He won't be traded but the reason behind the thought would be the increase of 2010 capspace. I've seen proposals like Blake, Outlaw and POR 2010 1st for Hinrich, which was considered fair value by the majority of both parties.

What??

are you saying that the contracts players have don't bear on their trade value?

I was told from almost every Portland fan, that if a deal improves Portland's team, Paul Allen won't be shy of investing money. Hinrich might be overpaid by 1-2m$ per season, but considering that he's a stellar compliment to Roy (and Miller, IMO), providing the neceassary spacing and perimeter defense, his contract shouldn't become an obstacle.

I didn't say, that other teams like Minnesota or New Jersey wouldn't be opposed to acquiring Hinrich. Portland, on the other hand, has no particular ambitions for 2010 and I thought that the main reasons for turning down Hinrich would have been a) Miller and b) Fernandez' trade value.

Moreover, I've been told several times, that Portland values long-term contracts, because of their approach towards extending expiring ones.

oh boy....distort things much?

those Chicago assets weren't just getting Rudy. Portland was also shipping out Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw, & Jerry Bayless. That's not a one-sided trade, especially considering the cap-space it would create for Chicago next summer

My trade:
John Salmons, James Johnson and a first for Outlaw and Fernandez
(+ Hinrich for Blake and Jerryd Bayless)

This trade:
Salmons and Gibson for Outlaw and Fernandez

I 'd assume, that John Salmons, James Johnson and a first provide more value than just John Salmons and Taj Gibson, while Hinrich for Blake and Bayless fetches you another desired player.

Personally, as a Blazer fan, I don't find that trade to be too bad at all. If something could be done to lock Salmons in for longer then a year, then it's a tempting trade

It's also too big a change in the rotation for Portland's conservative GM though

Since when is Pritchard considered conservative?

[Cammo101]

Can we please stop pretending Rudy is some great player? He is a Euro chucker that scores and does little else. He plays no defense and is way inconsistent. No team in their right mind would trade Salmons for him.

[Jimmy76]

Can we please stop pretending Rudy is some great player? He is a Euro chucker that scores and does little else. He plays no defense and is way inconsistent. No team in their right mind would trade Salmons for him.

+1

He hasnt shown he can do anything more than score efficienctly as a 4th-5th option 10 ppg roleplayer off the bench.

Hes better than Cammo says hes not a chucker but no idea why his value is so high.

[Cliff Levingston]

Hes better than Cammo says hes not a chucker but no idea why his value is so high.

Because he's a Blazer, and all Blazers are awesomely awesome.

[Cammo101]

Can we please stop pretending Rudy is some great player? He is a Euro chucker that scores and does little else. He plays no defense and is way inconsistent. No team in their right mind would trade Salmons for him.

+1

He hasnt shown he can do anything more than score efficienctly as a 4th-5th option 10 ppg roleplayer off the bench.

Hes better than Cammo says hes not a chucker but no idea why his value is so high.

I did not mean to imply that he stinks, just that people keep doing trade offers where he gets Portland Caron Butler and John Salmons. He is not half as good as Blazer fans want us to think he is.

[Jimmy76]

Can we please stop pretending Rudy is some great player? He is a Euro chucker that scores and does little else. He plays no defense and is way inconsistent. No team in their right mind would trade Salmons for him.

+1

He hasnt shown he can do anything more than score efficienctly as a 4th-5th option 10 ppg roleplayer off the bench.

Hes better than Cammo says hes not a chucker but no idea why his value is so high.

I did not mean to imply that he stinks, just that people keep doing trade offers where he gets Portland Caron Butler and John Salmons. He is not half as good as Blazer fans want us to think he is.

yeah the Caron trade is even more lopsided

[Chi town]

Gentlemen I agree to an extent. Rudy is obviously way overpriced by POR fans although that is usually normal hometown love.

Rudy would be great for the Bulls because they need 3pt chucking next to Rose and Deng. Rudy would basically be a cheaper Ben Gordon that would shoot more threes but score less. His contract is huge for the Bulls because it gives them even more cap space for 2010.

I do think if Rudy played 30mpg every game you would see him vastly improve in various facets of his game. he also fits in well to the style that Del Negro wants to play- Uptempo

[Chi town]

The fact of the matter is the Bulls are not going to resign Salmons to be our SG if we land Amare or Bosh. Won't happen. We would be paying the tax and JR wants to see a winner before he pays the tax for one.

Rudy's 3 ball and contract are perfect fits for the Bulls.

What's funny is I don't think Paxson would trade Salmons for Rudy anyway because Salmons is clearly the better player right now although moving forward Rudy will probably continue to incline as Salmons slowly declines over the next 4 years.