Discussion: What if NY plays 2011 instead?

[moocow007]

Or again, they can actually go after the one guy (we know who) that actually has indicated that he may want to play in NY and who, when asked why he would entertain going to a losing team (don't have to be a rocket scientist to know what team was being hinted at) answered because he can make any team much better and make any team a winner?

Adam Morrison?

Man, that guy's full of himself!

[Mr. E]

Does anyone actually believe that Michael Redd and Peja Stojakovic is going to make the Knicks better when they've not been able to make their own teams better than the Knicks right now without help from the guys that actually make those teams better (Paul and Jennings)?

That part I agree with 100%. However, if the opportunity presented itself for the Knicks to drastically improve their roster - long-term - via trade this year (not thinking of any players in particular - pure hypothetical), would they consider abandoning 2010 dreams to do so? Factor in that they'd still be major players in 2011 and I would think that they would have to at least consider it.

It does depend on the players, tho, and you're right that Redd and Peja are not those guys.

[warren weel im]

Its not as much Michael Redd as much as it is Peja Stojakovic. Its not saying these 2 effers are gonna immensely help the Knicks but they do come with compensation that the Knicks would be able to utilize if they play smart.

Between LA and Boston, sometimes what it comes down to is the bench. This is the idea I was trying to suggest. NY absorbs 2010 salary to get useful assets, at the same time Redd and Peja themselves. The acquisition of Redd also enables them LRMAM, a very good defensive scrapper on a very cheap contract. The acquisition of Peja also allows them Darren Collison, someone that would immensely help the Knicks.

Bucks and Hornets are more or less forced out to to do these deals due to the fact that they need the savings more than these 2 effers with no D could help them. Not with their contracts atleast.

Isn't it a breath of fresh air that there was a way to trade JJ and EC too?

[shrink]

2010 is plan a, plan b, and plan c.. a shot at bron/wade, you are not, absolutely not going to ruin that for almost anything, especially not michael friggin redd and peja

what happens if you go this route and no one signs with you in 2011? then you are f*cked, thats 3 years minimum of nothing.. 2010 and 2011 are 2 huge opportunities, nothing is guaranteed but a ton of cap space and a shot at bron/wade/bosh one offseason and immediately the next melo/parker/etc is a huge opportunity.. that way you got your main plan, and a backup plan.. eliminating 2010 eliminates one of those plans/opportunities, that means its 2011 or wtf

Why are big market fans blind to anything but free agents?

You have tons of valuable cap space to trade to any team for any player.

[dilbert719]

Or again, they can actually go after the one guy (we know who) that actually has indicated that he may want to play in NY and who, when asked why he would entertain going to a losing team (don't have to be a rocket scientist to know what team was being hinted at) answered because he can make any team much better and make any team a winner?

Does anyone actually believe that Michael Redd and Peja Stojakovic is going to make the Knicks better when they've not been able to make their own teams better than the Knicks right now without help from the guys that actually make those teams better (Paul and Jennings)?

The other element is to take this from the opposite perspective. If the Knicks choose to take themselves out of 2010, might one or two of the Early Termination FAs decide to postpone their free agency for a year? (I'm thinking of LeBron especially here, based on his team scenario.) LeBron has a great chance to win a championship this year, or next, if he stays put. He's going to get max money any year he comes out, and his endorsements are such that even if the max contract goes down next year, he won't feel a thing. Might it make some sense for him to stick with Cleveland for another year, take one more shot at getting the ring with the sure thing team, and wait until New York has the most possible money, assuming that is where he most wants to play? Sure, you're not going to be pairing LeBron with Wade or Bosh, unless one of them also decides to ride out this offseason, but Pau Gasol, Yao Ming, Dirk Nowitzki, Carmelo Anthony, and a few others could hit the market that year, barring extensions. Oh, yeah, and some guy named Black Angus or something. Some sort of beef.

[moocow007]

Its not as much Michael Redd as much as it is Peja Stojakovic. Its not saying these 2 effers are gonna immensely help the Knicks but they do come with compensation that the Knicks would be able to utilize if they play smart.

Between LA and Boston, sometimes what it comes down to is the bench. This is the idea I was trying to suggest. NY absorbs 2010 salary to get useful assets, at the same time Redd and Peja themselves. The acquisition of Redd also enables them LRMAM, a very good defensive scrapper on a very cheap contract. The acquisition of Peja also allows them Darren Collison, someone that would immensely help the Knicks.

Bucks and Hornets are more or less forced out to to do these deals due to the fact that they need the savings more than these 2 effers with no D could help them. Not with their contracts atleast.

Isn't it a breath of fresh air that there was a way to trade JJ and EC too?

The biggest bit of fresh air, by far, for the Knick franchise and it's fans is seeing this come the start of 2010-2011 season.



JJ is actually playing quite well and contributing to the Knicks success defensively. If he was being paid $2-3 million no one would be complaining about him. While obviously we'd like to move his contract, the player itself is doing real well in the core that is on the upswing they're on. So he's not deadweight by any means (again, obviously he's no stud or go you'd be thrilled having).

Curry is an albatross but it's an albatross that is not hurting the team any (he's not a cancerous personality, he's not disruptive in the lockerroom, he's not a whiner, he's not doing anything to hurt this team other than his contract being 1 year longer than desired in the current scheme of things).

Forgoing 2010 for 2011 just doesn't make any sense at all. If the implication is that the Knicks strike out in 2010, then 2011 by default is the game plan. At which point, sure why not (you're plan). But I think any belief that the Knicks 2010 plans are already out the window is extremely premature and ungrounded ESPECIALLY with how they've been playing of late.

[moocow007]

Or again, they can actually go after the one guy (we know who) that actually has indicated that he may want to play in NY and who, when asked why he would entertain going to a losing team (don't have to be a rocket scientist to know what team was being hinted at) answered because he can make any team much better and make any team a winner?

Does anyone actually believe that Michael Redd and Peja Stojakovic is going to make the Knicks better when they've not been able to make their own teams better than the Knicks right now without help from the guys that actually make those teams better (Paul and Jennings)?

The other element is to take this from the opposite perspective. If the Knicks choose to take themselves out of 2010, might one or two of the Early Termination FAs decide to postpone their free agency for a year? (I'm thinking of LeBron especially here, based on his team scenario.) LeBron has a great chance to win a championship this year, or next, if he stays put. He's going to get max money any year he comes out, and his endorsements are such that even if the max contract goes down next year, he won't feel a thing. Might it make some sense for him to stick with Cleveland for another year, take one more shot at getting the ring with the sure thing team, and wait until New York has the most possible money, assuming that is where he most wants to play? Sure, you're not going to be pairing LeBron with Wade or Bosh, unless one of them also decides to ride out this offseason, but Pau Gasol, Yao Ming, Dirk Nowitzki, Carmelo Anthony, and a few others could hit the market that year, barring extensions. Oh, yeah, and some guy named Black Angus or something. Some sort of beef.

Sure if the Knicks targets for 2010 decide not to opt out then really by default their plan is 2011. At which point trading for larger contracts that expire at the same time as Curry's and Jeffries MAY be the answer. But really what is that going to do to entice those big names to come to NY in 2011 anymore than it would them in 2010? Just as Al Harrington, Larry Hughes and Chris Duhon (big parts of the Knicks current upswing) will be gone in the current scenario, guys like Redd and Peja will be gone in the 2011 scenario. And what remains would be the same core group of guys that NY has right now for 2010. To which, and I'll use a common argument used for why the Knicks should move Harrington and Hughes NOW for lesser players that don't contribute...so their young core guys get more shots or more game time...how would brining in chuckers like Redd and Peja help any of these guys get their shots anymore than Harrington and Hughes being here would? The Knicks might as well just offer $10 million to Harringotn and $8 million to Hughes to stay one more season and save $15-16 million since they already are having plenty of success with the two than risking almost twice as much money on guys that have not produced as well and who you don't know will actually work with what they have.

[daddyfivestar]

I brought it up because Hill is not listed in any of the NY rosters for this or future years posted, yet the Knicks still have Darko in one for 2010. I thought maybe Hill was in a trade somewhere but left out, thus the question.

[warren weel im]

I brought it up because Hill is not listed in any of the NY rosters for this or future years posted, yet the Knicks still have Darko in one for 2010. I thought maybe Hill was in a trade somewhere but left out, thus the question.

As far as I was concerned, I forgot about JHill

As far as the Lebron photo is concerned, you forgot that the number should be "6"

[Wizenheimer]

It's a giant risk for any team to count on making cap-space moves in 2011, just as its a giant risk for any free agent to delay free agency to 2011..

Why?...because this summer will be the last one under the current CBA. In 2011, negotiations will be underway for a new CBA. It's quite possible there will be another lockout that season.

And it's almost certain there will be erosion in the value and terms of a deal a free agent can secure on the market. The maximum salaries could be less, the maximum years could be less, the raises could be less. Will any agent of any player actually advise his client to wait for the new CBA?...highly doubtful.

We also don't know what will happen with the salary cap. Will it be more like a hard cap? Will it be more restrictive for teams in the free agent market? Will the MLE grow in value compared to the relative value of cap-space?

I'd say if a team has a good opportunity for cap-space maneuvers this coming summer, they will almost certainly take the opportunity.

[Esq-4]

Too bad Melo didn't do the same contract as the other guys.

Would be nice if he was part of the picture in 2010.

Outside of LBJ, he is the guy I most want in orange and blue, even over Wade. Don't get me wrong, if we could get Wade in 2010 I would do that in a heart beat instead of waiting and hoping for Melo in 2011. Just a big fan of Melo's and think that if he ever came to play in NYC he would get a lot more recognition and be in the same breath as LBJ and Wade.

[Grover]

Great post. I have advocated an approach similar if we cannot sign LBJ, Wade, Johnson, Bosch or Stoudemire but it is the first round picks that lets the over the cap teams out from under the luxury tax, thereby sustaining the team moving forward. History suggests most, if not all of these guys, will resign with their current teams or cost far too much in a sign and trade to make it worthwhile short of LBJ. The other alternative is to offer up the 2012 first with Curry, to which I am unopposed, for the chance at having LBJ bring one of the other aforementioned five along with him. That flies in the face of logic but I love the gamble and perhaps Milwaukee or Sacramento would bite. Most lists do not include Johnson but when I watch the Hawks I see D'Antoni taking that team to another level and away from the one on one offense they seem to fall into regularly. The guy is an absolute stud in this system and probably worth the dollars. I think Kirilenko is another player who could thrive in Mike's system if a deal could be struck to open space for 2011. I'm thankful for Walsh's patience and as opposed to every GM since Grunfeld, have confidence in his wisdom. I'd still ask Isiah for his input on the draft though read where Walsh wanted Prince and capitulated to Isiah's choice of Fred Jones.

[daddyfivestar]

If Bosch is signed, the apocalypse is upon us.

[moocow007]

I brought it up because Hill is not listed in any of the NY rosters for this or future years posted, yet the Knicks still have Darko in one for 2010. I thought maybe Hill was in a trade somewhere but left out, thus the question.

As far as I was concerned, I forgot about JHill

As far as the Lebron photo is concerned, you forgot that the number should be "6"

Hey it's an old photo.

Actually not sure who photo shopped it but I have a blown up one hanging on my wall at home.

[eaglebaldini]

the Knicks don't need to make any crazy moves to play 2011.

they'll go into the summer of 2010 with whatever cap room they have, and they'll throw the house at LBJ. what happens after that is anyone's guess, but if they "strike out" there will be plenty of other good players to pick from.

they can still sign two very good players and a year later, from the cap savings of Jeffries and Curry being gone, they'll have enough room to chase after another Max guy, like Melo.