Caron Butler's Trade Value

rugby-hook · Post #21 » by **rugby-hook** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:22 am

These responses are a bit confusing; LA is already taking back the max salary that it can and one poster wants to add even more dollars to the mix. Young its under the Clips TPE and he could be exchanged for Crittenden if that makes everyone happier. WDC already has a max roster, which makes taking back so many players difficult.

Thornton makes just less than $2.0mm; he is improving and will play in the league for many years. He could be swapped out for Mardy Collins to make the trade look like Butler and Critt for Collins, Rasual Butler, Ricky Davis and a 2010 1st with top 7 protection. I don't think this is a stronger package, but if it satisfies WDC, LA should make the swap.

Post #22 » by **VintaGe36** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:19 am

Thorton isn't really a "young prospect" and the pick could be nothing, if the protection was say top 5, and Young was repaced with Stevenson(like yungal07 mentioned) I'd be down with this.

So:

Butler
Stevenson

for

Davis
Thorton
Butler
Top 5 protected 1st round pick

farzi · Post #23 » by **farzi** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:23 am

Rudy Webster and Blake, lotto protected 1st if truly needed

princeofpalace · Post #24 » by **princeofpalace** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:25 am

Yeah Al Thornton is 26 years old- he's not a young prospect by any stretch of the imagination

Post #25 » by **VintaGe36** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:01 am

farzi wrote:Rudy Webster and Blake, lotto protected 1st if truly needed

replace Webster with Outlaw, absorb Stevenson, and keep the pick.

farzi · Post #26 » by **farzi** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:55 am

yungal07 · Post #27 » by **yungal07** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:02 am

VintaGe36 wrote:
farzi wrote:Rudy Webster and Blake, lotto protected 1st if truly needed

replace Webster with Outlaw, absorb Stevenson, and keep the pick.

Yea I think the deal is somewhere in there. I like the "absorb stevenson" part more than the pick for sure.

Hoopalotta · Post #28 » by **Hoopalotta** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:33 am

As to the Blazers deal:

We're much better off with the pick. Cutting Stevenson was important when we were thinking about "How do we field the Washington core next year with a lower cap?"

7-16 changes things.

Now it's quite obvious we don't need to worry about that and, if we're smart, we'll be looking for an expiring and some kind of a pick on Jamison (and some expirings back on Butler too obviously). So dumping Stevenson is not nearly as important as getting a shot at another prospect.

So the pick is MUCH better as things stand now. Stevenson is at least a steadying influence on a young locker room in that he does what is asked of him and takes conditioning and preparation seriously.

rugby-hook wrote:These responses are a bit confusing; LA is already taking back the max salary that it can and one poster wants to add even more dollars to the mix. Young its under the Clips TPE and he could be exchanged for Crittenden if that makes everyone happier. WDC already has a max roster, which makes taking back so many players difficult.

Thornton makes just less than $2.0mm; he is improving and will play in the league for many years. He could be swapped out for Mardy Collins to make the trade look like Butler and Critt for Collins, Rasual Butler, Ricky Davis and a 2010 1st with top 7 protection. I don't think this is a stronger package, but if it satisfies WDC, LA should make the swap.

Your trades are very reasonable and balanced. This second one though just works a lot better for Washington as another year of looking at Nick Young helps a lot as he's our only shooting guard under contract for next year. It doesn't quite work in the checker, so I guess it's two separate deals with Crittenton for that Zach Randolph trade exception? Makes sense, though I see you have no one to backup Gordon other than Rasaul. There would always be the potential of a buyout where he resigned with the Clips.

The only thing that would have me put the brakes on this deal would be if we could get Randolph from Golden State in some kind of a package there.

I must say I quite enjoy this imaginary hog swapping with fans from other teams who approach the thing cooperatively

It's a pity I can't work up any enthusiasm for fantasy Basketball.

Hoopalotta · Post #29 » by **Hoopalotta** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:53 am

Swammy wrote:
SO_MONEY wrote:A BUNCH OF CAPS LOCK FOOLISHNESS WITH ASSORTED ROFL EMOTICONS

All these trades are realistic. You're a moron and what is all the stupid laughing about? Butler is better than any player mentioned above.

Thank you. Thank you for that.

rugby-hook · Post #30 » by **rugby-hook** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:03 am

You may think the Blazer deal works out better, but the Clip deal works and helps WDC a great deal. For the Clips, Butler can swing and play some SG as well as SF, especially if you take Collins instead of Thornton. The Young/critt portion of the trade is separate as a trade for the remainder of the Randolph TPE. If Young is included, it saves more dollars for WDC; the Clips should be indifferent. The Clips like Thornton and he has a lot more potential than Collins. I find it pedantic that the same WDC fans always complain about Thornton's age. As long as he is improving, who cares. He is still young; just because he is not juvenile does not mean that he is old. Young means that the player is still getting better, which Thornton is.

Bottomline; the best trade for all parties is

Caron Butler and Nick Young (TPE) for Thornton, Rasual Butler, R Davis and
the Clips 2010 1st (top 5 protected)

or

Caron Butler and Jarvis Crittendon (TPE) for Rasual Butler, Mardy Collins, R. Davis and the Clips 2010 1st (top 5 protected)

Either way, both teams should be thrilled.

yungal07 · Post #31 » by **yungal07** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:13 am

I prefer the Blazer fan's offer because we get expirings and a player (Fernandez) that can be part of our core. No one from the Clippers end entices me at all, so the Clippers offer would have to involve eating Stevenson's salary. The pick is nice -- but I'd rather have Fernandez than a protected pick.

Post #32 » by **VintaGe36** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:21 am

In the Portland trade, we get keeper value, that pick, though inticing, could land back with the Clippers anyways.

TradeMachine · Post #33 » by **TradeMachine** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:46 am

Wizards fans,

what exactly is wrong with Butler this year? I have him on my fantasy team, and would love him for the Blazers, but I've also noticed his production has taken a definite hit. Is it Arenas' return? 'Cause if he's having difficulty coexisting with Arenas' ball-dominating game, I'm not sure Butler would fit all that well in Portland. Batum (Prince clone), otoh, plays the ideal SF role in Portland, as he can play off the ball well, and just focuses on D-ing up the opposing wing star.

rugby-hook · Post #34 » by **rugby-hook** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:51 am

Trades are always a manner of opinion. The LA offer stands because POR only likes lopsided deals and cannot move on a deal. That is the only explanation for failure to move Raef at the deadline last year. Portland loves its players.

farzi · Post #35 » by **farzi** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:59 am

The hangup that we heard was that in addition to RLEC they wanted one of Rudy, Bayless, or Batum. So while yes they fell in love with their players, it wasn't just purely an expiring for big contract

Hoopalotta · Post #36 » by **Hoopalotta** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:12 am

I like the second Clippers deal from Rugby-Hook better than the Blazers deal. I'd take a top five protected pick over Fernandez and roll the dice there. Again, I'd do Randolph over either package though.

Trade Machine:

Basically, the only guys who have really fit into our offense so far are Jamison and Miller (who's been hurt). Butler's showing a lot of bad habits, but it has a lot more to do with him being held back from getting the ball in the right spots and having the freedom to create for himself and others. I mean, you'll notice in particular how much his passing has fallen off. But come on, it's not like he just forgot how to pass, right? He's rebounding and defending at career clips.

He's fine physically, but he and Arenas mesh poorly. OK, the truth is he and Arenas are terrible together as neither is in sync with Flip and their dysfunction just grows exponentially when they're together. Ric Bucher tweeted from the Clips game something like "Is it just me or does Caron Butler look like he's been injected with rocket fuel now that Arenas has fouled out". I kind of got the idea that it was a dig at Arenas, but the reality is more complicated. Whenever Arenas isn't on the floor, Butler has a much clearer idea of what to do and is able to get aggressive.

I suppose there is some concern about Butler next to Roy, though that issue kind of speaks to some of Roy's shortcomings and 'finkiness'. I could be wrong and I know he's hyper clutch, but doesn't it seem like he plays better when he's surrounded by less talented guys who are comfortable standing around? Anyway, come the playoffs, I really think Portland is going to need another guy who they can channel the offense through so as to have a certain unpredictability.

Whether Butler would work in that role or not for you guys, I'm not sure of. I am sure that Butler, Roy AND Miller is a bad idea though.

TradeMachine · Post #37 » by **TradeMachine** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:30 am

Thanks.

Your response was very insightful, and your assertion of Roy's shortcomings seem to be spot on. Most Blazer fans realized the need for another player to take the pressure off of Roy, and a lot of us hoped that Miller would be the solution. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have materialized, either because the coaching has made little effort to make them more cohesive or because Miller can't draw defenders away from the lane. Butler would be better in that respect. Probably.

Back to WAS, though. Does Andre Miller seem like a good option to pair with Arenas in the backcourt?

TheLSUMaverick · Post #38 » by **TheLSUMaverick** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:14 pm

How about a Josh Howard + whatever else that's not a core player for Caron Butler??????

Post #39 » by **nate33** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:15 pm

TradeMachine wrote:Wizards fans,

what exactly is wrong with Butler this year?

Read my post on Page 1

Post #40 » by **nate33** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:18 pm

MavsFan41 wrote:How about a Josh Howard + whatever else that's not a core player for Caron Butler??????

While I think Howard might indeed be a better fit in Washington than Butler is, I'd prefer to shop around for other offers. I'd rather find a guy who is a bit younger, a bit cheaper, and without some of the off-the-court issues. Either that, or I'd prefer to take my chances with a draft pick.

The Howard trade would be better than doing nothing at all, but it's not better than some other trades that I believe will be on the table.