Wall-Mart Special: NJ - SAC - N.O.

[Evermore]

Nets outgoing: Bobby Simmons, Tony Battie, Yi Jianlian, Courtney Lee, NJ's 1st round pick
Nets incoming: Kevin Martin, David West, Andres Nocioni

Kings outgoing: Kevin Martin, Andres Nocioni
Kings incoming: Peja Stojakovic, Courtney Lee, NJ's 1st round pick

Hornets outgoing: Peja Stokajovic, David West
Hornets incoming: Bobby Simmons, Tony Battie, Yi Jianlian


Case for Nets: They add 2 potential all-stars in Martin and West to play with their 2 potential all-stars in Harris and Lopez forming a potentially dominant 4-some...

Harris
Martin/CDR
CDR/Nocioni/Williams
West/Nocioni
Lopez


Case for Kings: They rebuild around Evans and the likelihood of 2 top 5 picks in next year's draft. Lee provides them an additional young asset while Peja is a massive expiring contract for the summer of 2011...

Udrih/Rodriguez
Evans/Lee
Casspi/Garcia
Thompson
Hawes


Case for Hornets: They save approx. 25 million next season dumping Stojakovic's contract while replacing West with a decent young PF with upside in Jianlian...

Paul/Collison
Brown
Wright/Simmons
Jianlian
Okafor

[PDXKnight]

I'm not sure NJ trades their pick for this package for two reasons:
1) Salary situation: NJ is still looking to make a play for a big FA in 2010, so they don't want to limit their options in FA.
2) John Wall: While landing the # 1 pick for them is no guarantee at this point, they have the highest chances. It's probably worth the risk of playing the lottery for the chance to land Wall. Although Martin and West are lucrative, Wall is MORE lucrative for a young team IMO.

As for Sac, they would have to strongly consider. They dump Nocioni's salary and land the best chance at Wall. Losing Martin would be tough, but again, Wall's THAT good. That said, I could see the Kings rejecting this if they expect the Nets to significantly improve with Martin and West.

Last, NO does this IMO. Rumor has it they want salary relief without trading Paul and this accomplishes that quite well. While they lose from a talent perspective, I could see them doing this.

[Evermore]

I'm not sure NJ trades their pick for this package for two reasons:
1) Salary situation: NJ is still looking to make a play for a big FA in 2010, so they don't want to limit their options in FA.
2) John Wall: While landing the # 1 pick for them is no guarantee at this point, they have the highest chances. It's probably worth the risk of playing the lottery for the chance to land Wall. Although Martin and West are lucrative, Wall is MORE lucrative for a young team IMO.

As for Sac, they would have to strongly consider. They dump Nocioni's salary and land the best chance at Wall. Losing Martin would be tough, but again, Wall's THAT good. That said, I could see the Kings rejecting this if they expect the Nets to significantly improve with Martin and West.

Last, NO does this IMO. Rumor has it they want salary relief without trading Paul and this accomplishes that quite well. While they lose from a talent perspective, I could see them doing this.

As you point out...NJ has the most to lose out on IF everything goes right. But that might not happen...and then what?

Maybe the Nets end up with the 3rd pick...and Lebron signs with the Knicks...

This trade would model the Nets after the championship teams of Detroit a few years ago...

Billups = Harris
Hamilton = Martin
Prince = Nocioni/CDR/Williams
Wallce = West
Wallace = Lopez


Plus the Nets keep CDR and Williams...and still have money to add another significant free-agent...

[cuad]

Why do you keep proposing trades if they always suck?

[cdt3]

The Kings being interested in John Wall is a MYTH. Bill Simmons put this in his column but he knows squat about the Kings. Tyreke is 6-'4", Rose 6'-3", Wall is 6'-4". Wall is a Rose clone but the Kings already have Tyreke who took Memphis just as far as Rose did. Tyreke is an beast and an alpha dog, it took me 1 summer league game to say we are going .500 with this guy. He has already taken the Cavs and Lakers to OT and beat Derrick Rose's Bulls team after being down 35 this week.

Everyone knows also that Kevin Martin is not an alpha dog. All he has to do for the Kings is spread the floor which fits perfectly with Tyreke's poor outside shooting. The only way Martin gets traded is if the team falls apart when he gets back. With Tyreke playing at the level he is it is doubtful Martin gets traded.

The Kings are not trading any of their big athletic core nor are they trading a near all star level #2 guy.

[vincecarter4pres]

It's not a myth, pretty much every single team in the league, down to the Lakers is interested in John Wall.
I think this is an easy no from NJ, a no brainer from Sacto and a probable yes from NOH.

[ecuhus1981]

25% chance at Wall + $20mil in additional 2010 salary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Nets' return in this deal. Easy no for the Nets.

[cdt3]

The Kings have no interest in John Wall. You cannot have 2 alpha dogs guards together.

[Evermore]

Why do you keep proposing trades if they always suck?

Why do you keep reading them?

[AQuintus]

The Kings being interested in John Wall is a MYTH.

Wall is by far the best player in this draft class, and easily has superstar potential. I doubt that there's a team in the league that isn't interested in Wall. And that includes New Orleans, Utah, and Chicago.

Tyreke is 6-'4", Rose 6'-3", Wall is 6'-4".

Tyreke is 6'6"

Wall is a Rose clone but the Kings already have Tyreke who took Memphis just as far as Rose did.

No he didn't, Rose took Memphis to overtime of the Championship team. Tyreke to Memphis to the Sweet 16.

[VintaGe36]

Why do you keep proposing trades if they always suck?

Why do you keep reading them?

Because that's what people do on the forums?

Do you know what you're doing? You're being a fire starter.
You post controversial, usually unfair trades, than simply leave, and watch the flame wars begin.

I'll be watching you, but if this does get out of hand, expect some sort of punishment

[Evermore]

Why do you keep proposing trades if they always suck?

Why do you keep reading them?

Because that's what people do on the forums?

Do you know what you're doing? You're being a fire starter.
You post controversial, usually unfair trades, than simply leave, and watch the flame wars begin.

I'll be watching you, but if this does get out of hand, expect some sort of punishment

I'm here to discuss trade ideas...that's all

If you want to start handing out punishments...why not start with posters that offer nothing constructive in their replies...

For example... "Why do you keep proposing trades if they always suck?"

That kind of reply offers nothing to the discussion...and in my opinion...is much worse than posting a trade proposal that not everybody agrees with


So you'll have to offer up some kind of example of "fire starting"...cause honestly...I don't know how you came to that conclusion

I'm here to discus trade ideas...that's all

[VintaGe36]

examples?

For some time now, you'll simply post a trade, and than not reply back to it, or try to rebuttal as to why it's fair.

You simply post the trade, and leave it.

That, is fire starting.

[Evermore]

examples?

For some time now, you'll simply post a trade, and than not reply back to it, or try to rebuttal as to why it's fair.

You simply post the trade, and leave it.

That, is fire starting.

I thought by "fire starting" you meant here to start trouble


I have to respectfully disagree over your assessment though...

If one of my proposals sparks a debate...I'm more than happy to join in

My post history reflects that...

And for those times that I don't reply...it's likely that I've already stated my reasoning for the trade in the OP...and don't feel like beating a dead horse...

[Trader_Joe]

Evermore,

In your defense I like your trade scenarios.
-You come up with clever (albeit cheesy) titles
-You clearly list outgoing and incoming players
-You list depth charts
-You list reasons
-I think you defend them well
-I think most are pretty fair or an honest attempt
-You admit your own trade's shortcoming when others point them out
-You come up with plenty of threads to keep the board interesting
-I don't detect any biases
-I've never seen you insult posters, teams or players

In general, I noticed it takes the mods and more established posters a while to warm up to new posters, but I'd say your doing pretty well. I haven't noticed you "fire starting" or leaving your threads unattended or unexplained.

[SVThawk]

I like Evermore's trade threads, he's just like Smills in the fact most of them are just out there testing waters of what people think. He's generally responded and discussed with me when I've challenged his thinking in threads.

You just have to realize most of his trades posted are just testing the waters on player values

[Evermore]

Evermore,

In your defense I like your trade scenarios.
-You come up with clever (albeit cheesy) titles
-You clearly list outgoing and incoming players
-You list depth charts
-You list reasons
-I think you defend them well
-I think most are pretty fair or an honest attempt
-You admit your own trade's shortcoming when others point them out
-You come up with plenty of threads to keep the board interesting
-I don't detect any biases
-I've never seen you insult posters, teams or players

In general, I noticed it takes the mods and more established posters a while to warm up to new posters, but I'd say your doing pretty well. I haven't noticed you "fire starting" or leaving your threads unattended or unexplained.

Don't cash the cheque until the New Year...and it should be fine

Thanks!

[Smills91]

It's not a myth, pretty much every single team in the league, down to the Lakers is interested in John Wall.
I think this is an easy no from NJ, a no brainer from Sacto and a probable yes from NOH.

You think the Nets say no to a starting line-up of:

Lopez
West
Williams
Martin
Harris?


Really? That's TWO all-star caliber players they're receiving for a MYSTERY pick that is more likely to be the #4 pick than #1 pick.

[vincecarter4pres]

It's not a myth, pretty much every single team in the league, down to the Lakers is interested in John Wall.
I think this is an easy no from NJ, a no brainer from Sacto and a probable yes from NOH.

You think the Nets say no to a starting line-up of:

Lopez
West
Williams
Martin
Harris?


Really? That's TWO all-star caliber players they're receiving for a MYSTERY pick that is more likely to be the #4 pick than #1 pick.

West is getting up there in age, Martin is crazy overrated and low impact, Devin has fallen off the planet, Williams isn't starting caliber. I don't know what you think that lineup accomplishes, but I think it's at best a 2nd round team that struggles mightily to get there.
I would rather a chance at another future superstar(Wall, Turner, Ed Davis, Monroe, Favors, etc.), cap space to either sign two guys like Gay, Lee, Boozer, Scola, Bosh etc., keeping C. Lee off the bench and the chance at a true future contender, a perrenial one, not a 3 year quick fix that struggles to get bounced out of the 2nd round in 5 or 6 games and then winds up late lotto. Mediocrity is the worst place to be in the NBA. Not many teams have a chance at contending, but the goal should always be to build towards just that, not middle of the pack. This had been exactly Sacto's problem for about 4 seasons.

[deviljets7]

It's not a myth, pretty much every single team in the league, down to the Lakers is interested in John Wall.
I think this is an easy no from NJ, a no brainer from Sacto and a probable yes from NOH.

You think the Nets say no to a starting line-up of:

Lopez
West
Williams
Martin
Harris?


Really? That's TWO all-star caliber players they're receiving for a MYSTERY pick that is more likely to be the #4 pick than #1 pick.

West is getting up there in age, Martin is crazy overrated and low impact, Devin has fallen off the planet, Williams isn't starting caliber. I don't know what you think that lineup accomplishes, but I think it's at best a 2nd round team that struggles mightily to get there.
I would rather a chance at another future superstar(Wall, Turner, Ed Davis, Monroe, Favors, etc.), cap space to either sign two guys like Gay, Lee, Boozer, Scola, Bosh etc., keeping C. Lee off the bench and the chance at a true future contender, a perrenial one, not a 3 year quick fix that struggles to get bounced out of the 2nd round in 5 or 6 games and then winds up late lotto. Mediocrity is the worst place to be in the NBA. Not many teams have a chance at contending, but the goal should always be to build towards just that, not middle of the pack. This had been exactly Sacto's problem for about 4 seasons.

Well put.

Let's be honest here, the only 2 ways to get a true superstar in their prime is through the lottery or free agency. This deal eliminates both avenues for the Nets. Is it a guarantee, they can land one of the true franchise FAs or get a superstar in the draft? No, but I'm not giving up both my chances at one.

I won't bash Martin/West, but even with both of them I don't think NJ is better than Orlando or Boston. West is also a lot older than the rest of that core.