Toronto - Detroit

[TPV]

DeMar DeRozan and Hedo Turkoglu for Ben Gordon and Austin Daye

Just curious to see what you guys think.

[N.O.R.E.]

I don't like it for either team to be honest.

[Relentless88]

I don't like it for either team to be honest.

Agreed.

Raps will pass, so will the Pistons.

[vege]

Yeah, bad trade.

[Piston Pete]

Keeps coming back to:

Rip

for

Evans/Banks/2011 1st

[Cowology]

Raps fans are in love with DeRozan and the Pistons want no part of Hedo.

[Rapsobsessed7]

Keeps coming back to:

Rip

for

Evans/Banks/2011 1st

yep i think thats the deal both sides like. I for one do, cant speak for all Raptor fans though.

[Relentless88]

Keeps coming back to:

Rip

for

Evans/Banks/2011 1st

yep i think thats the deal both sides like. I for one do, cant speak for all Raptor fans though.

Honestly I would probably not do it. Having Calderon/Hedo/Rip make like 40 million is just (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Paying 32 year old Rip for the next three years a lot of money is not very pleasant, especially when we're already giving Hedo so much.

[Rapsobsessed7]

Keeps coming back to:

Rip

for

Evans/Banks/2011 1st

yep i think thats the deal both sides like. I for one do, cant speak for all Raptor fans though.

Honestly I would probably not do it. Having Calderon/Hedo/Rip make like 40 million is just (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Paying 32 year old Rip for the next three years a lot of money is not very pleasant, especially when we're already giving Hedo so much.

yes it is a lot of money however it makes us a much better team. We need to make every push possible to convince CB to stay. What do Banks + Evans bring? They expire at the end of the year and wed have no cap space to use regardless. We also wouldnt have expiring contracts for a while, at least this way we open up time for Amir and a spot for him to be resigned. We capitalize on our expiring contracts now since its the last time we have them. We also only owe Rip 25 million the next two seasons. He expires the same time as Calderon which also sets us up nicely.

Jack(5) /Calderon(9) = 14 million at PG
Hamilton (12.5) / Belinelli (1.5) = 14 million at SG
Hedo (10) / Derozan (2.5) / Weems (.8) = 13.3 million at SF
Bosh (17) / Amir (4) = 21 million at PF
Bargnani (8.5) / Thomas (2) / Powell (1.9) = 12.4 million at C

i just think that lineup can compete with the upper eastern conference teams.

[Ripp]

Keeps coming back to:

Rip

for

Evans/Banks/2011 1st

Thinking about it, Evans/Banks is the most that should be given. It is a buyer's market, not a seller's. You guys set bad precedent by giving away an amazing PG (Billups) for nothing (Iverson.) Off the top of my head, I can't think of another team willing to take Rip's contract. From what I recall, Dumars shopped Rip heavily this past trade deadline and got nowhere. Likely the only team that can stomach Hamilton's salary is the Raptors. Absolutely no reason for the Raps to add a pick. The clock is on YOUR team to move one of your three SGs (Hamilton, Gordon, Stuckey.) Hamilton has to be moved by this offseason, and everyone knows it. Absolutely no need to add incentives.

[Rapsobsessed7]

yes but Iverson had the marketability and the name to explain to their fans. It isnt such a blow, if they get a 1st rounder back they can sell that to their fans also. The 1st would be lottery protected of course.

Also they dont HAVE to move anyone. They can keep the current team they have and whos not to say another team might offer expiring (in a bigger name). What if they keep their team, add a big man through the draft and make a quick turn around? They dont HAVE to do anything, you HAVE to give them some reason to do it. Expiring contracts who are borderline useless have no value.

Also their is a BUNCH of teams with 2011 expiring contracts, who can top the raptors offer with a bigger name.

[Ripp]

yes but Iverson had the marketability and the name to explain to their fans. It isnt such a blow, if they get a 1st rounder back they can sell that to their fans also. The 1st would be lottery protected of course.

Also they dont HAVE to move anyone. They can keep the current team they have and whos not to say another team might offer expiring (in a bigger name)

Name some teams which have a big hole at SG, 2011 expirings, and want to fill this hole with an aging vet. Means a playoff team in either the ECF or WCF that somehow has gotten there w/o a legit SG. Only team that fits this description is the Toronto Raptors.

And yes, they do have to move one of their 3 SGs this offseason. It isn't as if there is tons of PT to go around...

[Trader_Joe]

Jack(5) /Calderon(9) = 14 million at PG
Hamilton (12.5) / Belinelli (1.5) = 14 million at SG
Hedo (10) / Derozan (2.5) / Weems (.8) = 13.3 million at SF
Bosh (17) / Amir (4) = 21 million at PF
Bargnani (8.5) / Thomas (2) / Powell (1.9) = 12.4 million at C

i just think that lineup can compete with the upper eastern conference teams.

Wow... a $75m payroll when the cap and tax limit are decreasing and a new CBA on the horizon?
The only teams what would probably have a higher payroll next season would be:

LAL
Orlando
Boston
Cleveland (assuming LBJ stays)
Dallas
Toronto

^^^^

1 of these teams is not like the others.

[Ripp]

Toronto is a pretty rich market, and the Raptors a very profitable franchise. Gotta spend money when handicapped by bad contracts (Hedo, Jose), and questionable fits that are supposedly core pieces (Bargs)..

The alternative is to let Bosh go and try to convince people to see a team with Bargnani as the best player

[Rapsobsessed7]

Ok well use your logic trader Joe. 66 million is torontos payroll resigning bosh to max and not doing this deal. Factor in the same numbers I used for Amir,Thomas and Powell your at 73.9 million in committed salaries. Then factor in BC wanting to spend a couple million more to get a backup 3 your at 75 million regardless. Difference is your smarter with your money with this deal. It fills holes in our lineup without spending

also next season with Hamilton we would be better than Boston ( you can't be serious). Orlando we've already beaten this season on the road. We can beat them next year too especially with Hamilton. Cleveland we always play well against. Even this season. Beat them once, lost in OT without CB and once in the 4th quarter.

So we can beat those teams. Add Hamilton and I'm sure were in the top 4 in the East at least. We would likely win the Atlantic next season. Look at Boston. Old and almost done. Add another year and KG won't be able to jump bray Allen might not even be a Celtic next year too

[Relentless88]

yes it is a lot of money however it makes us a much better team. We need to make every push possible to convince CB to stay. What do Banks + Evans bring? They expire at the end of the year and wed have no cap space to use regardless. We also wouldnt have expiring contracts for a while, at least this way we open up time for Amir and a spot for him to be resigned. We capitalize on our expiring contracts now since its the last time we have them. We also only owe Rip 25 million the next two seasons. He expires the same time as Calderon which also sets us up nicely.

Jack(5) /Calderon(9) = 14 million at PG
Hamilton (12.5) / Belinelli (1.5) = 14 million at SG
Hedo (10) / Derozan (2.5) / Weems (.8) = 13.3 million at SF
Bosh (17) / Amir (4) = 21 million at PF
Bargnani (8.5) / Thomas (2) / Powell (1.9) = 12.4 million at C

i just think that lineup can compete with the upper eastern conference teams.

I just don't know if I'd give a first round pick ON top of expirings for a 32 year old guard that's still got 3 years and 33 million on his contract left.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Toronto isn't moving 2 good sized expirings and a first for Hamilton that's a no go for a 33 year old SG on a long term deal. I would try to go after Mike Miller for the MLE this offseason who can be just as good as Hamilton for half the money.

Toronto doesn't touch the Gordon + Daye for DeRozan and Hedo deal. Yes we loose Hedo's bad contract and all but Gordon is a terrible fit here. He needs a big PG to play beside like Jason Kidd, Devin Harris or Hinrich or a good defensive PG something we don't have.

[Rapsobsessed7]

also their are teams who could top Torontos offer and teams like need a SG

Utah (AK, CJ, Kosta all 2011 expiring)
Boston (What if Allen leaves in FA?)
Cleveland (West, Moon, Parker all 2011 expiring)
San Antonio? (Jefferson, Antonio all 2011 expiring)

Those are the teams i see that could have a need for a SG however you also have to look at teams that miss out on the FAs. I do think Toronto is the most realistic destination for Hamilton because he plays well off the ball which is what we need, we dont need someone to dominate it. Also with Hedo/Jack/Jose Hamilton would get a bunch of open looks.

Heres what i dont understand. People talk about expiring contracts like their going to be as valuable as they were this year. EVERY team in the league, (go look) has expiring contracts. Every single one has decent amount of expiring.

By signing an MLE player + Resigning Amir you add to our pay role this year instead of doing the Hamilton deal. The 1st though is where they get their value back for Hamilton. Maybe im just wrong and his age and contract dont warrant a 1st but i would do it, it basically secures our franchise player and were a young enough team as it is.

Would Detroit do.

Banks
Evans
2010 2nd Round Pick

for

Hamilton

since theres such a fuss about the 1st rounder which would be lottery protected and with Hamilton i perceive us to be in the top 3-4 teams in the East with maybe being higher than that with internal development of our young players and a proper defensive system. I mean Boston, 1 year older is not good, i think we take the Atlantic (with Hamilton). Orlando weve beaten and match up well against them, add Hamilton and again i think were better than them. Atlanta who knows how they will be with Joe Johnson FA and such if their willing to pay him the max. Cleveland we have played really well against them this season, with and without Bosh. It would be close and to some it may seem like a stretch but i could see us top 2 in the East with a couple things falling into place.

1) add hamilton and he preforms to a reasonable amount
2) fix our defensive system in the offseason
3) internal development with young players (Amir, Derozan, Belinelli, Weems)
4) our willingness to spend in the off season (resign Amir, Bosh, + go after a couple bigs)

if all that happens i see us as a potential top 2 team in the East. I just think Detroit needs a reason to do it, thats why the 1st is there. As i said this isnt like the Billups deal, they got a big name in return and a very marketable name in Iverson. Hes different expiring than a Banks or Evans. Both are expiring (iverson at the time) but both are different value to their incoming team. We also have to top other offers around the league thats why a lottery protected 1st would do it.

or maybe you convince the Knicks to get involved.

TOR: Hamilton
DET: Banks + Evans + Curry + 2010 Raptors 2nd
NYK: Maxiell

saves NYK another 6.1 million in FA + get a serviceable big rather than having Curry sit there and do nothing.

Jack/Calderon/Atkins (vet min)
Hamilton/Belinelli
Hedo/Derozan/Weems
Bosh/Johnson
Bargnani/Thomas(2 million of MLE)/Powell (bi annual)

Stuckey/Bynum/Banks
Gordon/Vasquez(DET 2nd)/Dyson (TOR 2nd)
Prince/Daye/Summers
Jerbeko/CV/Evans
Aldrich/Wilcox/Curry

PG/Douglas/Minimum
SG/Walker
Gallo/Chandler
PF/Maxiell/Vanardo (DEN 2nd)
C/FA/Jordan (NYK 2nd)

NYK goes to 13.6 million, if the cap is 53, gives them about 40 million to spend. That means 2 max FA (Johnson + Amare) and about another 8 million to spend (Felton + C)

Felton/Douglas/Minimum
Johnson/Walker
Gallo/Chandler
Maxiell/Vanardo (DEN 2nd)
Amare/C(2 million)/Jordan (NYK 2nd)

[Rapsobsessed7]

yes it is a lot of money however it makes us a much better team. We need to make every push possible to convince CB to stay. What do Banks + Evans bring? They expire at the end of the year and wed have no cap space to use regardless. We also wouldnt have expiring contracts for a while, at least this way we open up time for Amir and a spot for him to be resigned. We capitalize on our expiring contracts now since its the last time we have them. We also only owe Rip 25 million the next two seasons. He expires the same time as Calderon which also sets us up nicely.

Jack(5) /Calderon(9) = 14 million at PG
Hamilton (12.5) / Belinelli (1.5) = 14 million at SG
Hedo (10) / Derozan (2.5) / Weems (.8) = 13.3 million at SF
Bosh (17) / Amir (4) = 21 million at PF
Bargnani (8.5) / Thomas (2) / Powell (1.9) = 12.4 million at C

i just think that lineup can compete with the upper eastern conference teams.

I just don't know if I'd give a first round pick ON top of expirings for a 32 year old guard that's still got 3 years and 33 million on his contract left.

since our players would be expiring contracts he would have 2 years left because if we didnt trade Banks or Evans they would still be on our books. Also dont know where you got 33 million, Hamilton is owed 12.5 million the next 3 years (2011,2012,2013). However Banks + Evans are 9.9 million in 2011 so the difference which is 2.6 million and the 25 left on his contract after 2011 and we would only be taking 27.6 million.

As i said though you have to give to get, expiring contracts dont have the same value as they did this trade deadline. With ever team having expiring its hard to give them the value they had this deadline. So i personally would do a 1st, dont know though, if it was made to our 2010 2nd that would be even better but i dont see the incentive for Detroit then.