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Give Spo Credit

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Post#41 Re: Give Spo Credit
Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:00 pm by Big Dee Chi-Born

Pimpwerx wrote:In Riley we trust. Lord help us when the day comes that we have to say in Mutnt, Greenhat and Big Dee CHI-Born we trust. You don't have to go on about loser talk, Big Dee. I can wax on for pages about a Chicago-born Heat fan alone. :lol: Don't get mad because I call loser talk what it is, loser talk. There is nothing this team can do to prove to you guys that we belong. So...this just becomes loser talk. We are the champions, and the constant stream of negativity is in the minority on this particular forum. I don't feel out of place supporting my team like this. It's probably telling that you do. PEACE.


Here's a little history lesson for my Miami born fan. In year one of the Heat they drafted a guy from DePaul (a Chicago based school) named Kevin Edwards and took the Bulls backup point guard (Rory Sparrow) in the expansion draft. That's what attracted me to the franchise from jump. Not to mention the fact that they drafted Rony Seikaly who played for Syracuse, which had my favorite collegiate player of the time Derrick Coleman on that team. I bet you know nothing about the first two guys I mentioned, but your fan hood is superior huh???

Here's another history lesson for you MIAMI BORN Heat fan... Since Pat Riley has taken over the Heat he's made it his business to keep a CHICAGO-BORN player on his rosters!!! Dig that... Most of them I know personally... Tim Hardaway was my favorite player from Chicago before he played a single tick in the NBA. Sean Lampley grew up right down the street from me and I played with and against his entire family my whole life and was good friends with his brother Mike. Antoine Walker was an actual friend of mine. So yeah Chi-Born buddy... I wear that with pride and you should feel blessed that Riley loves Chicago as much as he does or Heat history would be a lot less historical. Know that! Embrace that!!!

Like I said I'll leave the real loser talk you pimp. And again... Pray that LeBron goes nuts.
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Post#42 Re: Give Spo Credit
Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:01 pm by GreenHat

Pimpwerx wrote:As pointed out, this argument just goes 'round in circles.

You, who do not like Spo, think you know more than him and Riley. Good for you. You're just plain wrong.

If Spo was a problem, he'd never have stayed long enough to inherit the best roster in franchise history. There were "better" options available, amirite? Logic has no place in this discussion, just the usual knee-jerk armchair experts, like there are in every sport. How much credence do you ever pay to these people? Yeah...that's about as much as I've paid to you guys.

Anyone else with common sense that's reading this thread now, please go ahead and bookmark this thread. Bookmark this specific post, please. I'm going to resurrect this thread, when we repeat and lmao as what will then look like more boneheaded loser talk by people who apparently slept through the previous two seasons, and completely ignored the 2 before that. I'd bet dollars to donuts Spo is coach of this team long after this trio of haters have quit the fanbase in frustration.

In Riley we trust. Lord help us when the day comes that we have to say in Mutnt, Greenhat and Big Dee CHI-Born we trust. You don't have to go on about loser talk, Big Dee. I can wax on for pages about a Chicago-born Heat fan alone. :lol: Don't get mad because I call loser talk what it is, loser talk. There is nothing this team can do to prove to you guys that we belong. So...this just becomes loser talk. We are the champions, and the constant stream of negativity is in the minority on this particular forum. I don't feel out of place supporting my team like this. It's probably telling that you do. PEACE.


Pimp you are quite frankly an idiot.

You call everyone else a " knee-jerk armchair expert". Again do we really have to drag up your posts again?

YOU are the one who said posters know better than Spo not me.

YOU were the one voicing that he should be replaced, I just want improvement. Not stupid things like going to watch a college football team so that Spo can implement a fast paced offense (which lasted about a week, now we play slow again and SURPRISE it works)

YOU were the one with all of the loser talk when we were down to Indiana. I have been saying we have the best team in the league the whole time.

YOU are the guy you complain about not me.

Those four years you talk about have one ring with them. You make it sound like Spo is going for a five-peat.

We should repeat. We have the best players. We do not have the best coach. Hopefully our players can win the title. Not sure why you would like us to bookmark this thread. You've always looked foolish when your posts from the past are bookmarked. Do you still think Cole will make it the Big 4?

Spo is like the rich high school kid whose dad buys him a Lamborghini and he beats a bunch of Civics in street races but also loses to some random slower cars including a big race to a BMW. You're the doting girlfriend who thinks he is the best driver ever because he can win some races with the fastest car. Its the car not the driver.

As for your bets I can guarantee I will be a Heat fan long after Spo. I was a fan before Spo or even Riley for that matter. Judging by your "pimp" moniker I might have had season tickets before you were even born.

I'll take your bet though. When I outlast Spo what do I get? I've called you out on your cliched "dollar to donuts" bets before but you never want to set stakes.
Your emotions fuel the narratives that you create. You see what you want to see. You believe what you want to believe. You ascribe meaning when it is not there. You create significance when it is not present.
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Post#43 Re: Give Spo Credit
Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:08 am by RexBoyWonder

Don't you just love the smell of ownage in the morning?
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Post#44 Re: Give Spo Credit
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:55 pm by Pimpwerx

Big Dee Chi-Born wrote:Here's a little history lesson for my Miami born fan. In year one of the Heat they drafted a guy from DePaul (a Chicago based school) named Kevin Edwards and took the Bulls backup point guard (Rory Sparrow) in the expansion draft. That's what attracted me to the franchise from jump. Not to mention the fact that they drafted Rony Seikaly who played for Syracuse, which had my favorite collegiate player of the time Derrick Coleman on that team. I bet you know nothing about the first two guys I mentioned, but your fan hood is superior huh???

Here's another history lesson for you MIAMI BORN Heat fan... Since Pat Riley has taken over the Heat he's made it his business to keep a CHICAGO-BORN player on his rosters!!! Dig that... Most of them I know personally... Tim Hardaway was my favorite player from Chicago before he played a single tick in the NBA. Sean Lampley grew up right down the street from me and I played with and against his entire family my whole life and was good friends with his brother Mike. Antoine Walker was an actual friend of mine. So yeah Chi-Born buddy... I wear that with pride and you should feel blessed that Riley loves Chicago as much as he does or Heat history would be a lot less historical. Know that! Embrace that!!!

Like I said I'll leave the real loser talk you pimp. And again... Pray that LeBron goes nuts.

I'm not even born in Miami. I just find it hilarious that a Chicago-born Heat fan has the gall to say anyone in this fanbase is overconfident in this team.

You want to mention DJ Seiks? What about one of our earlier draft picks who never made the roster? George Ackles from the UNLV Rebels that had LJ, Augmon, Hunt and Anthony. I moved to Miami a year before the franchise came here. I know all about this team's history, bruh.

You clearly don't understand what loser talk is. Loser talk is talk from people who create strawmen to cast doubt on their team. The straw man this time being the mythical problems this team has. Hope that Lebron goes nuts? Oh, you mean hope that Lebron is Lebron, right? Is he going nuts right now, or just playing at his normal, elite level? Loser talk is thinking we need more than we got to win it all. We're champions. Act as such. When the time for important games comes around, and we're playing like crap, then your doomcrying might...MIGHT make some sense. In January? It's pretty damn stupid. Why do you think your numbers are so thin in this line of thinking? Because you guys have the inside track? More like you guys have your eyes closed. PEACE.

tl;dr: We don't believe you. You need more people.
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Post#45 Re: Give Spo Credit
Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:37 pm by GreenHat

We have our eyes closed? You're the one with your head in the sand. Even Spo doesn't agree with you about your coasting excuse. And I trust Spo more than you.

This literally is like talking to a wall. YOU are the one who makes strawman arguments. I can't count the number of times you have incorrectly stated my opinion.

Lebron is playing amazing and this team is still underperforming. That's the point. You keep blaming it on coasting but Spo says we aren't coasting. You might think you know more than Spo but you don't.

It is stupid to judge who is right based on the amount of people who believe something. I know you aren't dumb enough to believe that. There are countless examples throughout history of the majority being wrong.

It is telling that the majority of posters who can string together a few paragraphs disagree with you.

You think that Spo is a top 3 coach. The majority disagree with you. You need more people.

Heck even you disagreed with you less than a year ago. You're the biggest flip flopper and you're upset that everyone else doesn't flip flop as much as you do.

As I said before we should win it all. We have the fastest car, the driver just needs to keep it on the road.
Your emotions fuel the narratives that you create. You see what you want to see. You believe what you want to believe. You ascribe meaning when it is not there. You create significance when it is not present.
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Post#46 Re: Give Spo Credit
Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:58 pm by Pimpwerx

I wish we could make these replies shorter, I really do.

Anyway, feel free to point out my posts, please, and let's take a look at posts that preceded and followed them. When I make a comment after a loss, I'm being just as irrational as you guys are. I remember after a loss in Indiana, I said, "the seeds of discourse have been sewn." Riiiiiiiiight. How wrong was that comment? LOL! Emotions usually lead to irrationality, which is why you won't see me stand by any of those knee-jerk responses. What's your excuse? I haven't spent the last 2.5 seasons moaning about the same thing, have I? How's that working out for you?

[url=http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1179613&start=285#p31841371]Big Dee thought Spo should have played Pittman sooner last year...LOL, and thinks shooting more 3s in the postseason was a dumb decision. SMH./url]

You continue to believe that the roster Spo took over his first year was somehow drastically improved over the 15-win season. I suppose if you think that sack of crap didn't overachieve, then there's no need for logic...and I have a bridge to sell you.

Wade/Haslem/Anthony/Wright/Jermaine/Beasley/Qrich/Chalmers/JJ/Cook/Arroyo/Alston

Wade/Haslem/Anthony/Wright/Shaq/Cook/Marion/Davis/Banks/JWill/Blount/Quinn

Which one of those two lineups is the 15-win on, and which one is the playoff team? Can you really tell when you list it from top to bottom? Let's not forget JO was bitchmade, Beas was a bust, Wright was a bust, Rio was a rookie, QRich wasn't even on the team until the following season, JJ had no impact on the defense, Cook was in the midst of busting, Arroyo wasn't on the team until the following year, and neither was Rafer.

In reality, the 15 win team in order of games played was this:

Davis/Blount/JWill/Quinn/Cook/Wade/UD/Barron/Wright/AJ/Shaq/Zo/Joel/Marion/Penny

The team that followed was:

Rio/Wade/UD/Marion/Joel/JO/Diawara/Moon/Beas/Magz/Cook/JJ/Quinn/Blount/Head

Half the roster returned, but the team went from 26th in DRTG to 11th in DRTG, which is what started the turnaround. The following year, DRTG improved to 6th. That's not a fluke. That's not a roster. That's a coach and his system making improvements.

I'd love to believe your argument that this was all spurred by Wade's amazing MVP-level season, but the evidence doesn't seem to support you. Our improvements, that vaulted us into the playoffs, was on defense. Wade is a great defender, but nowhere near the source of that massive jump. We're also not making the playoffs without that improvement, because our offense was still only 20th and 19th in the league in Spo's first two seasons.

So right there, we see Spo had a direct impact on the area we know he specializes in, defense, and that was the most-significant improvement to the team once he joined. Not the roster, and not Wade's offensive explosion, which didn't really impact the defense that much.

In addition to this, there's still no explanation for how an average coach only manages 12 games (still to this day) where his team is below .500. I've seen coaches accumulate more than that in a single season with multiple HoFers on their roster. Pringles and Doc are the examples that come to mind. No one is crediting Spo with rings he didn't win, but you can't discount the games he won prior to the Big3.

A rich kid usually never has to succeed in abject poverty. You guys act ignorant of what Spo was working with before the Big3, like he has an embarrassment of riches. There was an embarrassment alright, but it wasn't of riches. A minority coach doesn't work his way from video coordinator to head coach, appointed by a HoF head coach, without being really damn good. Perhaps you'll be so kind as to point similar rags to riches stories, because I don't think you will find one. It just doesn't happen. So either Riley is a damn fool, or maybe he sees the traits of a good coach in Spo. Of course, that couldn't make any sense, right? So then Spo is so overmatched in this position that you and other armchairs can see it before Riley, amirite? Of course, tat makes complete and utter sense...in the bizarro world you three inhabit.

You ever see the homeless guy on the side of the road mumbling to himself? To him, he's having an engrossing conversation full of facts. To us, he's just wearing clown shoes. You guys are wearing clown shoes. Keep on rambling, though. PEACE.
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Post#47 Re: Give Spo Credit
Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:08 pm by Pimpwerx

GreenHat wrote:We have our eyes closed? You're the one with your head in the sand. Even Spo doesn't agree with you about your coasting excuse. And I trust Spo more than you.

This literally is like talking to a wall. YOU are the one who makes strawman arguments. I can't count the number of times you have incorrectly stated my opinion.

Lebron is playing amazing and this team is still underperforming. That's the point. You keep blaming it on coasting but Spo says we aren't coasting. You might think you know more than Spo but you don't.

It is stupid to judge who is right based on the amount of people who believe something. I know you aren't dumb enough to believe that. There are countless examples throughout history of the majority being wrong.

It is telling that the majority of posters who can string together a few paragraphs disagree with you.

You think that Spo is a top 3 coach. The majority disagree with you. You need more people.

Heck even you disagreed with you less than a year ago. You're the biggest flip flopper and you're upset that everyone else doesn't flip flop as much as you do.

As I said before we should win it all. We have the fastest car, the driver just needs to keep it on the road.

Point out this majority of posters? Most people may not agree with my assessment that Spo is Top3, but I don't think they agree with your constant complaints either. Especially when your complaints don't seem to have any basis in reality. We don't believe you. You need more people. You guys circle-jerking in the mirror doesn't making this a gangbang.

As for flip-flopping, I challenge you again to post quotes. I'll just find ones from before and afterwards that completely refute them. You want to call it flip-flopping when you want to cherrypick what might only amount to a handful of posts made in anger and frustration. However, I believe I have hundreds of times more posts than that saying the opposite. You make it seem like I've been anti-Spo at times. No, I've been angry and bitter, kinda like you. Only, I snap out of that bitterness quickly after a loss, and get back to being sensible. You, OTOH, have ridden the anti-Spo fail train since I've been here. Your only excuse when we keep succeeding is that the team should succeed on its talent alone. Yeah right. There's still the Knicks, Nets and Lakers.

New Onion headline, "Greenhat wages 2 year campaign against coach with 3rd-best win percentage; Claims he is overmatched." SMH. PEACE.
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Post#48 Re: Give Spo Credit
Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:10 pm by Pimpwerx

Simple avatar bet for Greenhat. We win the championship and I stick you with my favorite Spo avatar for the entire 2013-14 season. We lose, and you can give me any avatar you want. I figure that's the harshest bet I can make, as the odds should be heaviest against me, right? I'm sure you feel confident enough in your doubting of Spo that this should be easy money, right?

Ditto for Big Dee, but make it a signature bet. Again, the entire 2013-14 season is the time limit.

I got nothing for Mutnt since your post history is pretty brief. I know Greenhat and Big Dee have been hating Spo for a minute, so I'll challenge them first. PEACE.
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Post#49 Re: Give Spo Credit
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:14 am by AAAAA1

Im pretty sure its all Lebron.

Spo in huddles just ask's the team where the team dinner is and tries to get the guys to come over and play some 2K13 where his own character is a 99 in every category.
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Post#50 Re: Give Spo Credit
Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:57 am by Mutnt

Pimpwerx wrote:I got nothing for Mutnt since your post history is pretty brief. I know Greenhat and Big Dee have been hating Spo for a minute, so I'll challenge them first. PEACE.


That's cool, I've been a long time forum lurker but only recently decided to sign up saying: ''well, if i'm checking stuff on this forum almost everyday, it would be reasonable to post something from time to time as well'' so I made an account.

Apart from that, I've always questioned Spo's decision making and coaching abilities from day one, and mind you, I was critical of him and his work even before the Big Three came to be. I hope you believe me when I say I don't have any type of negative bias towards Spoelstra just because he inherited an all-time great roster and I'm some jealous angry bitter person that doesn't want him coaching that kind of talent without proving something in this league first (no, piggy back riding Wade to the playoffs in the weak East isn't really something).

I just call it like I see it and Spo hasn't lived up to my expectations thus far. Simple as that. Maybe he has to yours, because you only care about winning titles first and foremost (not the level of play this team is showing). Since we got LeBron/Wade/Bosh on the team it should be an automatic trip to the Finals every year... Forget a coach, if you put a bucket of sardines by the sideline every game instead of a coach, those three will get you to the Finals. Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a tad, but that's just to get my point across.

You're crediting Spo too much and taking our players for granted and here's where you fail epically, saying stuff like ''ohh you mean if LeBron is playing at his normal LeBron level like he always does d0h'' No muthafuker, putting up 45, 15, 8, which i's more or less what it took several times to not get us knocked out of the playoffs, isn't normal LeBron level, that's god-like LeBron. And if this team needs god-like performances from LeBron to win a championship (and that's when we are clearly the favorites) I don't know what to say.

I wanna hear your opinion on Mike Brown as well. Look at his success in Cleveland. Numerous 60+ win seasons and a trip to the Finals with those Cavs is 10 times more impressive than anything Spo has done prior to being gifted 3 of the most talented and versatile players in the league. Why doesn't he vacate a spot somewhere near the top of your coaching list, and more importantly, why do you have Spo in front of him, if Brown had the more successful career?

I'll tell you why, because your head is too far Spoelstra's **** you're crediting him for the same thing you're probably gonna discredit Brown, and that is for having LeBron. In your twisted illogical world, Brown is somehow a bad coach who was carried to success by riding LeBron to all those wins, while on the other hand, your pet boy Spo is an awesome top 3 coach because not only is he riding LeBron to success, but also Wade and Bosh to boot...

That's the type of illogical thinking that you are based on and that's why me, GreenHat, Big Dee and others are calling you out. It's not that you think Spo is a better coach than we do. It's the way you extensively worship him based on the results, while overlooking the workload the Big Three have to carry for us to be successful day in and day out. Please also note that Spo can afford to make coaching mistakes, because he has all-time talent playing through those mistakes and still winning. Most of the coaches don't have that leverage.
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Post#51 Re: Give Spo Credit
Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:20 am by Big Dee Chi-Born

Pimpwerx wrote:
Big Dee Chi-Born wrote:Here's a little history lesson for my Miami born fan. In year one of the Heat they drafted a guy from DePaul (a Chicago based school) named Kevin Edwards and took the Bulls backup point guard (Rory Sparrow) in the expansion draft. That's what attracted me to the franchise from jump. Not to mention the fact that they drafted Rony Seikaly who played for Syracuse, which had my favorite collegiate player of the time Derrick Coleman on that team. I bet you know nothing about the first two guys I mentioned, but your fan hood is superior huh???

Here's another history lesson for you MIAMI BORN Heat fan... Since Pat Riley has taken over the Heat he's made it his business to keep a CHICAGO-BORN player on his rosters!!! Dig that... Most of them I know personally... Tim Hardaway was my favorite player from Chicago before he played a single tick in the NBA. Sean Lampley grew up right down the street from me and I played with and against his entire family my whole life and was good friends with his brother Mike. Antoine Walker was an actual friend of mine. So yeah Chi-Born buddy... I wear that with pride and you should feel blessed that Riley loves Chicago as much as he does or Heat history would be a lot less historical. Know that! Embrace that!!!

Like I said I'll leave the real loser talk you pimp. And again... Pray that LeBron goes nuts.

I'm not even born in Miami. I just find it hilarious that a Chicago-born Heat fan has the gall to say anyone in this fanbase is overconfident in this team.

You want to mention DJ Seiks? What about one of our earlier draft picks who never made the roster? George Ackles from the UNLV Rebels that had LJ, Augmon, Hunt and Anthony. I moved to Miami a year before the franchise came here. I know all about this team's history, bruh.

You clearly don't understand what loser talk is. Loser talk is talk from people who create strawmen to cast doubt on their team. The straw man this time being the mythical problems this team has. Hope that Lebron goes nuts? Oh, you mean hope that Lebron is Lebron, right? Is he going nuts right now, or just playing at his normal, elite level? Loser talk is thinking we need more than we got to win it all. We're champions. Act as such. When the time for important games comes around, and we're playing like crap, then your doomcrying might...MIGHT make some sense. In January? It's pretty damn stupid. Why do you think your numbers are so thin in this line of thinking? Because you guys have the inside track? More like you guys have your eyes closed. PEACE.

tl;dr: We don't believe you. You need more people.


You weren't born in Miami but have the nerve to comment on where I was born??? Cool

So you know all about the history huh??? That's what you say? Earlier huh??? LOL George Ackles was still in school when Seikaly was drafted and playing for the Heat dude!!! Please tell me that was a bad joke!!! It doesn't get any earlier than the 88 draft class! But you know your history huh? Dude you sound crazy right now, but that's nothing new. Man get yourself together... :roll:

And in case you don't know, LeBron is going crazy right now! He's playing at an All Time best right now! And guess what? We WERE champs! That was last year and that's the mind set that SPO is taking on this season as well. And there is no dooms cry over here. I've only said that other guys concerns about this team and Spo are warranted. You say that everything is just peachy. You're wrong and Spo says you're wrong. I say that if these same problems continue into the playoffs and we have to rely on Spo to coach us out of a bad situation it won't happen. We rely heavily on our players greatness to get us wins. Fact! Teams with better coaches and inferior roster can rely on their system to stay in games against us that shouldn't even be in the same gym as us!!! Fact!

We should win every playoffs series we enter easily and I don't need an inside track to know that. The fact that we have yet to even sweep a playoff series yet tells me all I need to know about Spo's greatness as a coach. And guess what I didn't need an inside track.
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Post#52 Re: Give Spo Credit
Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:53 am by Big Dee Chi-Born

Pimpwerx wrote:I wish we could make these replies shorter, I really do.

Anyway, feel free to point out my posts, please, and let's take a look at posts that preceded and followed them. When I make a comment after a loss, I'm being just as irrational as you guys are. I remember after a loss in Indiana, I said, "the seeds of discourse have been sewn." Riiiiiiiiight. How wrong was that comment? LOL! Emotions usually lead to irrationality, which is why you won't see me stand by any of those knee-jerk responses. What's your excuse? I haven't spent the last 2.5 seasons moaning about the same thing, have I? How's that working out for you?

[url=http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1179613&start=285#p31841371]Big Dee thought Spo should have played Pittman sooner last year...LOL, and thinks shooting more 3s in the postseason was a dumb decision. SMH./url]


What sense does it make to start a guy in a playoff game that you haven't played all season. Since you say we coast during the regular season, why shouldn't we play the young guns more during the season??? Why not get them some in game experience just in case some unforeseen injuries or suspension occur during the Playoffs? Makes sense to me and anybody else who knows anything about developing a roster. Especially a the center position which is our weakest the last three seasons! Look at this season alone... We've lost Vanardo to Boston because we didn't sign him to begin with, and now have signed him back to 10 day contracts. We signed Jorts instead, never played him, cut him, signed him back, then cut him again. And we still don't know what he could've added to this team. We could've had Hassan Whiteside (who I thought we should've drafted before Pittman because Pitiman didn't rebound nor block shots in college) on this roster and got him up to speed during the same amount of time we wasted on Jorts and he could've been what Birdman is hoped to be now at this advanced stage of his career. He meets the physical needs for the Heat in terms of athleticism and length, but Spo decided on the shorter stubbier guys who can shoots three's. Great job Spo.

Pimpwerx wrote:You continue to believe that the roster Spo took over his first year was somehow drastically improved over the 15-win season. I suppose if you think that sack of crap didn't overachieve, then there's no need for logic...and I have a bridge to sell you.

Wade/Haslem/Anthony/Wright/Jermaine/Beasley/Qrich/Chalmers/JJ/Cook/Arroyo/Alston

Wade/Haslem/Anthony/Wright/Shaq/Cook/Marion/Davis/Banks/JWill/Blount/Quinn

Which one of those two lineups is the 15-win on, and which one is the playoff team? Can you really tell when you list it from top to bottom? Let's not forget JO was bitchmade, Beas was a bust, Wright was a bust, Rio was a rookie, QRich wasn't even on the team until the following season, JJ had no impact on the defense, Cook was in the midst of busting, Arroyo wasn't on the team until the following year, and neither was Rafer.

In reality, the 15 win team in order of games played was this:

Davis/Blount/JWill/Quinn/Cook/Wade/UD/Barron/Wright/AJ/Shaq/Zo/Joel/Marion/Penny

The team that followed was:

Rio/Wade/UD/Marion/Joel/JO/Diawara/Moon/Beas/Magz/Cook/JJ/Quinn/Blount/Head


This is worst bunch of disingenuous crap I've seen in a while! Why didn't you put the CBA/NBDL players that were on the roster as well? Where is Alexander Johnson on that list? Did you mention that Penny started games for that team? Where is Smush Parker? If we had to rely on this Dwayne Wade coming off knee surgery to lead this Heat Team we have right now, where would we be??? Would we be a playoff team? Hell no we wouldn't be!

We all know the deal here, but you wanna try to gloss over the facts that we did tank! Man I'm done... Do ya thang young fella...
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Post#53 Re: Give Spo Credit
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:51 pm by GreenHat

Pimpwerx wrote:Simple avatar bet for Greenhat. We win the championship and I stick you with my favorite Spo avatar for the entire 2013-14 season. We lose, and you can give me any avatar you want. I figure that's the harshest bet I can make, as the odds should be heaviest against me, right? I'm sure you feel confident enough in your doubting of Spo that this should be easy money, right?

Ditto for Big Dee, but make it a signature bet. Again, the entire 2013-14 season is the time limit.

I got nothing for Mutnt since your post history is pretty brief. I know Greenhat and Big Dee have been hating Spo for a minute, so I'll challenge them first. PEACE.


Pimp are you seriously this dense?

I am the one who has been saying we should win this year. Why would I bet against that?

I thought we should win it all last year (even during Indiana when you didn't) and the year before that too.

Why would the odds be against you? We have the best players in the league. Why would we not be the favorites for the title?

My point is Spo isn't winning it all without the best players. He's lost while having the better players
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Post#54 Re: Give Spo Credit
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:11 pm by narmerguy

As if he were imploring reporters to keep a secret, Heat coach Erik Spoelstra lifted one finger over his lips and lightly made the shushing sound.

No, the Heat isn’t overly concerned about its rebounding numbers, but that doesn’t mean Spoelstra wants everyone to know it.

After 38 games in the regular season, the Heat is dead last in the NBA in rebounds per game (38.84). Spoelstra and Heat president Pat Riley have made steps throughout the season to improve defensive rebounding — first moving Udonis Haslem into the starting lineup and now adding veteran free agent Chris Andersen to the mix — but, considering the team is in first place in the East, that “dead last” denotation is clearly incongruous with what it actually takes for the Heat to win games.

For this team, it’s not all about rebounding.

“It is an important aspect,” Spoelstra said Tuesday, when Miami held its third practice session in four days. “[Rebounding] is an important aspect of our defense. We have to finish. It’s not the most important aspect of our game.”

The Heat is a small team. During the long, slogging NBA regular season, Miami (26-12) is never going to rebound day in and day out with the likes of the Indiana Pacers or Chicago Bulls. That’s OK, says Spoelstra, guard Dwyane Wade and forward Shane Battier. The team was never designed to win games by dominating the boards.

“There are more important factors for us,” Spoelstra said. “The story line that is very popular out there? That’s fine. I don’t really care. I know what helps us win and what really doesn’t help us win … if we force turnovers, if we win the turnover game, that’s the most important thing.”

The Heat’s defense is averaging 14.8 turnovers per game (15.3 at home), and the team is ranked fifth in the league in assist-to-turnover ratio (1.65). Combine those tendencies with the Heat’s efficient offense (first in field-goal percentage at .488; third in three-point field goal percentage at .387), and you have a winning formula.

Battier, fully healed from a sore hamstring that limited during the Heat’s six-game road trip, acknowledged that opponents’ turnovers are the Heat’s most important statistic “just because we’re such a high-efficiency team.”

“The more possessions we get, we’re going to convert those into points. … Raw rebounds are a misleading stat,” he added. “For us, turnovers are pretty much everything.”

The Heat is 17-5 in games when it has forced at least 15 turnovers. The common denominator in the five losses? It’s not rebounding, but rather turnovers allowed. In the five losses when the Heat has forced at least 15 turnovers, it has allowed an average of 15.6 turnovers.

It’s not surprising, then, that the first statistic Wade looks for in the boxscore after games is his turnovers.

“That’s who we are,” Wade said. “This is our team. We love the games where we’re able to rebound with the opponents, but games where we get outrebounded, we’ve got to make up for it.”

So dedicated to his frenetic defensive style is Spoelstra that he bristles at the notion that Miami’s ability to force turnovers is a form of compensation for the team’s lack of size. That’s not the point, Spoelstra says, but rather “that’s who we are.”

“We’re trying to make other teams compensate to us,” he said. “That’s a totally different mentality. We’re not giving up something because of ‘X, Y, Z.’ We’re trying to go after something and put pressure on other teams because of ‘X,Y, Z’ — our athleticism, our quickness, our intelligence, our versatility.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/23/3 ... rylink=cpy


Spo doesn't think rebounding is a problem. Personally I think his suggestion that turnovers are somehow more important because of extra possessions...you do realize that's what a rebound gets you as well? Every time a team rebounds over us, that's another 24 second possession they get (except in rare airball cases).
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Post#55 Re: Give Spo Credit
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:12 pm by GreenHat

Pimpwerx wrote:
GreenHat wrote:We have our eyes closed? You're the one with your head in the sand. Even Spo doesn't agree with you about your coasting excuse. And I trust Spo more than you.

This literally is like talking to a wall. YOU are the one who makes strawman arguments. I can't count the number of times you have incorrectly stated my opinion.

Lebron is playing amazing and this team is still underperforming. That's the point. You keep blaming it on coasting but Spo says we aren't coasting. You might think you know more than Spo but you don't.

It is stupid to judge who is right based on the amount of people who believe something. I know you aren't dumb enough to believe that. There are countless examples throughout history of the majority being wrong.

It is telling that the majority of posters who can string together a few paragraphs disagree with you.

You think that Spo is a top 3 coach. The majority disagree with you. You need more people.

Heck even you disagreed with you less than a year ago. You're the biggest flip flopper and you're upset that everyone else doesn't flip flop as much as you do.

As I said before we should win it all. We have the fastest car, the driver just needs to keep it on the road.

Point out this majority of posters? Most people may not agree with my assessment that Spo is Top3, but I don't think they agree with your constant complaints either. Especially when your complaints don't seem to have any basis in reality. We don't believe you. You need more people. You guys circle-jerking in the mirror doesn't making this a gangbang.

As for flip-flopping, I challenge you again to post quotes. I'll just find ones from before and afterwards that completely refute them. You want to call it flip-flopping when you want to cherrypick what might only amount to a handful of posts made in anger and frustration. However, I believe I have hundreds of times more posts than that saying the opposite. You make it seem like I've been anti-Spo at times. No, I've been angry and bitter, kinda like you. Only, I snap out of that bitterness quickly after a loss, and get back to being sensible. You, OTOH, have ridden the anti-Spo fail train since I've been here. Your only excuse when we keep succeeding is that the team should succeed on its talent alone. Yeah right. There's still the Knicks, Nets and Lakers.

New Onion headline, "Greenhat wages 2 year campaign against coach with 3rd-best win percentage; Claims he is overmatched." SMH. PEACE.


Let's look at just this thread its 3 vs 1. Let's look at the Fire Spo thread from last year, how many pages did that get to?

And exactly the majority don't agree with you that Spo is a top 3 coach. Why do you think people don't agree with you? They don't believe you. You need more people. (which is such a stupid saying, at a point in history you would have been the idiot saying that to the people who were trying to convince you the Earth is round)

You want to call it flip-flopping when you want to cherrypick what might only amount to a handful of posts made in anger and frustration. However, I believe I have hundreds of times more posts than that saying the opposite.


That's the point of flip flopping. You have posts saying that internet posters know more than Spo and then posts that say he's a top 3 coach. Your opinions may change with the wind based on results as your emotions flare but some of us are more in control of our emotions than you. We are on a winning streak right now but I'm not flip flopping my opinions. Spo is a middle of the pack coach. My opinion isn't going to change if he wins a series where he is a heavy favorite or if he loses a couple of games to Indiana. Again I am more in control of my emotions than you.

As for flip-flopping, I challenge you again to post quotes. I'll just find ones from before and afterwards that completely refute them.


So what you are saying is you'll find comments before that are different and then after that are different? That's the definition of flip flopping. Of course you can find posts before and after that refute your own posts. Its because you are a flip flopper.

I don't need to dig up your posts. They always get dragged up whenever they have one of those dumbest posts ever threads. Your Norris Cole being making a big 4 is always near the top. That also illustrates your overreactions and giving too much credit to guys with little experience. You keep ignoring me when I ask you if you still think Cole is going to make it a big 4. I guess you flip flopped on that by now.

Your Indiana post just got quoted recently. Its not worth finding again because you've already admitted you flip flopped on that. As I've said you have said worse about Spo than I have.

I'm not angry at all at the team. You're stupidity is a little annoying but not anger inducing. You bring up the Knicks, Nets and Lakers but we have much better talent than all of those teams. What about OKC, San Antonio and Clippers?

You're Onion article bit isn't funny or clever and intentionally obfuscates the point. Spo has the best talent in the league and he would be the 4th seed in the West. Spo shouldn't get credit for geography.
Your emotions fuel the narratives that you create. You see what you want to see. You believe what you want to believe. You ascribe meaning when it is not there. You create significance when it is not present.
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Post#56 Re: Give Spo Credit
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:50 pm by GreenHat

Pimpwerx wrote:I wish we could make these replies shorter, I really do.

Anyway, feel free to point out my posts, please, and let's take a look at posts that preceded and followed them. When I make a comment after a loss, I'm being just as irrational as you guys are. I remember after a loss in Indiana, I said, "the seeds of discourse have been sewn." Riiiiiiiiight. How wrong was that comment? LOL! Emotions usually lead to irrationality, which is why you won't see me stand by any of those knee-jerk responses. What's your excuse? I haven't spent the last 2.5 seasons moaning about the same thing, have I? How's that working out for you?


Sorry that my opinions don't sway wildly with my emotions like a teenage girl or you. My opinions don't shift radically over wins and losses like yours do because I'm not a flip flopper like you.

You keep using that your posts before and after are different than the ones in the middle. EXACTLY. You're a flip flopper who plays the result. That's the point.



Yeah the talent was better the second year. That seems obvious to everyone.

Wade/Haslem/Anthony/Wright/Jermaine/Beasley/Qrich/Chalmers/JJ/Cook/Arroyo/Alston

Wade/Haslem/Anthony/Wright/Shaq/Cook/Marion/Davis/Banks/JWill/Blount/Quinn

Which one of those two lineups is the 15-win on, and which one is the playoff team? Can you really tell when you list it from top to bottom? Let's not forget JO was bitchmade, Beas was a bust, Wright was a bust, Rio was a rookie, QRich wasn't even on the team until the following season, JJ had no impact on the defense, Cook was in the midst of busting, Arroyo wasn't on the team until the following year, and neither was Rafer.


In reality, the 15 win team in order of games played was this:

Davis/Blount/JWill/Quinn/Cook/Wade/UD/Barron/Wright/AJ/Shaq/Zo/Joel/Marion/Penny

The team that followed was:

Rio/Wade/UD/Marion/Joel/JO/Diawara/Moon/Beas/Magz/Cook/JJ/Quinn/Blount/Head


That's a very simplistic way of looking at things, which we've come to expect from you. You just don't seem capable of critical thinking. I'll address this at the bottom for the upteenth time.

Half the roster returned, but the team went from 26th in DRTG to 11th in DRTG, which is what started the turnaround. The following year, DRTG improved to 6th. That's not a fluke. That's not a roster. That's a coach and his system making improvements.


So Spo is a much better coach than Riley, right?

His system made huge improvements and you say its the coach and his system making improvements. Improvements over Riley? I'll wait for you to back pedal and flip flop from that and blame it on your emotions again.

I'd love to believe your argument that this was all spurred by Wade's amazing MVP-level season, but the evidence doesn't seem to support you. Our improvements, that vaulted us into the playoffs, was on defense. Wade is a great defender, but nowhere near the source of that massive jump. We're also not making the playoffs without that improvement, because our offense was still only 20th and 19th in the league in Spo's first two seasons.

So right there, we see Spo had a direct impact on the area we know he specializes in, defense, and that was the most-significant improvement to the team once he joined. Not the roster, and not Wade's offensive explosion, which didn't really impact the defense that much.


Again so is Spo a better coach than Riley?

In addition to this, there's still no explanation for how an average coach only manages 12 games (still to this day) where his team is below .500. I've seen coaches accumulate more than that in a single season with multiple HoFers on their roster. Pringles and Doc are the examples that come to mind. No one is crediting Spo with rings he didn't win, but you can't discount the games he won prior to the Big3.


He had average teams with an average roster. That makes him a top 3 coach?

Spo has been lucky to have one or two of the top three players in the league every year. Other coaches don't have that luxury every single year of their career. Some coaches never get that at all. Spo had one or two every single year.


A rich kid usually never has to succeed in abject poverty. You guys act ignorant of what Spo was working with before the Big3, like he has an embarrassment of riches. There was an embarrassment alright, but it wasn't of riches. A minority coach doesn't work his way from video coordinator to head coach, appointed by a HoF head coach, without being really damn good. Perhaps you'll be so kind as to point similar rags to riches stories, because I don't think you will find one. It just doesn't happen. So either Riley is a damn fool, or maybe he sees the traits of a good coach in Spo. Of course, that couldn't make any sense, right? So then Spo is so overmatched in this position that you and other armchairs can see it before Riley, amirite? Of course, tat makes complete and utter sense...in the bizarro world you three inhabit.


Another one of your classic strawmen. Please point out where I have called the roster before the big 3 anything resembling an embarrassment of riches. Riley did think Spo was the best coach... on his staff at the time. I agree with Riley there. Spo was the best coach on his staff. If Riley's ego allowed him to hire coaches not from his own coaching tree then Spo would not have been the choice.

The only person who said that the armchairs see more than Riley and Spo was you. During the Indiana series, remember?

You ever see the homeless guy on the side of the road mumbling to himself? To him, he's having an engrossing conversation full of facts. To us, he's just wearing clown shoes. You guys are wearing clown shoes. Keep on rambling, though. PEACE.


This is so ironic coming from you. The three people you are arguing with are all laughing at your ineptitude. You're right that guy rambling to himself does think he have facts but in reality he can't even keep his facts straights because his opinions sway radically because he, like a teenage girl, cannot control his emotions.

Going back to the rosters and win turnaround.

You are saying the improvement is coming from the improvement in coaching (going from Riley to Spo). That's laughable.

Wade went from less than 2000 mins to more than 3000 mins. That's 1000 more Wade mins and he was healthy that second season. That's a HUGE upgrade on offense and defense.

Haslem played 700 more mins and that was back when he was a useful player, especially on defense.

Shawn Marion played only 16 games in the tank year and 42 games in Spo's first year. Another big upgrade especially on defense.

Then they got Jermaine O'Neal for the end of the year. Another big upgrade on defense.

Joel ANthony doubled his minutes. Another big upgrade on defense.

No Ricky Davis who played almost 3000 minutes. Another HUGE upgrade on defense.

No 1500 mins of Blount. Another HUGE upgrade on defense.

No 1800 mins of JWILL. Another HUGE upgrade on defense.

No 1000 mins of Shaq. Another big upgrade on defense.

You mentioned Zo but failed to mention that he played less than 400 mins.

Who knew that replacing Shaq, Jwill, Blount, and Ricky Davis with JO, Marion and more minutes for Wade, Haslem and Joel would improve the defense? You're right it must be that Spo is a much better coach than Riley like you claim.

The team also added Chalmers and Beasley who had decent rookie years. Either way much better than Jwill and Ricky Davis who they were taking minutes from.

Seems like the teams were pretty different if you really look into it instead of taking the simplistic approach that you used. But you can keep thinking the reason was because Spo is such a vastly superior coach to Riley and the change was because of Spo.
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Post#57 Re: Give Spo Credit
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:49 pm by HIF

no, you don't flip flop. You just hate on Spo and pretend that you know so much about basketball with posts pretending your hindsight was really pre-sight (forgetting all the things you said in the past which were wrong).

You must have cried a lot when Spo won another ring last season.
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Post#58 Re: Give Spo Credit
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:50 pm by HIF

no, you don't flip flop. You just hate on Spo and pretend that you know so much about basketball with posts pretending your hindsight was really pre-sight (forgetting all the things you said in the past which were wrong).

You must have cried a lot when Spo won another ring last season.
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Post#59 Re: Give Spo Credit
Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:10 pm by Heat_Fan_87

lol
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Post#60 Re: Give Spo Credit
Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:18 pm by Pimpwerx

So...no takers on the avatar/sig bet then?

So...I guess we all agree we're gonna repeat then, right?

So...what's wrong with Spo again? PEACE.
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