Toney Douglas

[KingDavid]

i sitll think it all comes down to coaching and what is expected. I think all 3 pg's can perform well if we let them actually play like pg's run plays and find the open men. having them play off the ball and man the 3 point line I think they all look bad.

Hell no. Cole and Rio are awful on the ball. Rio drives and goes out of bounds or does an awful pocket pass to someone's feet when he's in trouble. Cole takes one step forward and shoots a midrange jumper.

Toney has been the smartest one with the ball...Give it to LBJ/Wade quickly and get the hell out of the way. We don't need another playmaker on offense. We have five guys for that already.

Seriously, if Cole wants to improve, all he has to do is get the ball to lbj/wade and make his threes when he's open and defend to the best of his ability. That's it. Our PGs have the easiest jobs in the NBA and they can't do it right. Rio does too much and Cole can't shoot.

[Dupas]

i sitll think it all comes down to coaching and what is expected. I think all 3 pg's can perform well if we let them actually play like pg's run plays and find the open men. having them play off the ball and man the 3 point line I think they all look bad.

Hell no. Cole and Rio are awful on the ball. Rio drives and goes out of bounds or does an awful pocket pass to someone's feet when he's in trouble. Cole takes one step forward and shoots a midrange jumper.

Toney has been the smartest one with the ball...Give it to LBJ/Wade quickly and get the hell out of the way. We don't need another playmaker on offense. We have five guys for that already.

Seriously, if Cole wants to improve, all he has to do is get the ball to lbj/wade and make his threes when he's open and defend to the best of his ability. That's it. Our PGs have the easiest jobs in the NBA and they can't do it right. Rio does too much and Cole can't shoot.

they just follow the guides.
" everyones a playmaker " spoelstra , 2013 playoffs.

[WD]

I stopped judging these players by how they play on this team....not an accurate picture of ANY ROLE players value on THIS TEAM.....

As long as we are in a "win now" STATUS, we're not going to see guys like either Cole/Chalmers/Douglas do anything but make sure they bring the ball up and get it to "what we call" PLAYMAKERS

[greg4012]

Seriously, if Cole wants to improve, all he has to do is get the ball to lbj/wade and make his threes when he's open and defend to the best of his ability. That's it. Our PGs have the easiest jobs in the NBA and they can't do it right. Rio does too much and Cole can't shoot.

That's why I'm not overly worried about the PG position going forward. With the ridiculous skillset on the floor between LeBron and Wade, the PG has to essentially be a 3 & D guy. We can get those for relatively cheap.

[HeatNation88]

Said it from the start Toney would be key and people call me crazy smgdh

[heater4life]

Ill go out on a limb; if Toney Douglas continues playing the way he is, either Norris Cole or Chalmers will be gone next season. If I had to choose one, Ill say Rio is gone.

With the exception of his outside shot, which could stand to improve, hes what the Heat need at point guard. Hes a gritty defensive minded guard, he rebounds and is streaky from deep (needs to improve to be a perfect fit). Given time in the system, I think he can integrate a bit better. He still seems uncomfortable on the floor at times and cannot initiate plays on the pick and role as he is not a great ball handler/playmaker.

What I love the most about Douglas is his demeanor, hes always engaged, and as a UD-esque grit to him without the immaturity Cole and Chalmers carry.

No reason to have 3 rotational caliber guards on a championship roster, where other positions can be upgraded.

No way in hell is Miami dumping either of them even if Toney Douglas leaves. Miami would be crazy to dump one of their only young assets because a veteran is stepping up. The only way either of them leave is if they choose to leave or we find an amazing young prospect through the draft somehow.

Its not a matter of dumping. Were possibly losing two key contributors on this team in Shane Battier and Ray Allen. Its a matter of sacrifice, is Mario Chalmers worth the 5 to 6 million hes going to command to secure the PG position? Or would his money be better used to supplement the depth lost and have Norris and Douglas secure the backcourt?

It all depends on what Rio asks for, yes hes a key contributor, yes he steps up in the playoffs, but this offseason is a financial ballet and Rio might not be in a Heat uniform. Especially if Douglas can step into a niche role on this squad on the cheap.

[RexBoyWonder]

Ill go out on a limb; if Toney Douglas continues playing the way he is, either Norris Cole or Chalmers will be gone next season. If I had to choose one, Ill say Rio is gone.

With the exception of his outside shot, which could stand to improve, hes what the Heat need at point guard. Hes a gritty defensive minded guard, he rebounds and is streaky from deep (needs to improve to be a perfect fit). Given time in the system, I think he can integrate a bit better. He still seems uncomfortable on the floor at times and cannot initiate plays on the pick and role as he is not a great ball handler/playmaker.

What I love the most about Douglas is his demeanor, hes always engaged, and as a UD-esque grit to him without the immaturity Cole and Chalmers carry.

No reason to have 3 rotational caliber guards on a championship roster, where other positions can be upgraded.

No way in hell is Miami dumping either of them even if Toney Douglas leaves. Miami would be crazy to dump one of their only young assets because a veteran is stepping up. The only way either of them leave is if they choose to leave or we find an amazing young prospect through the draft somehow.

Its not a matter of dumping. Were possibly losing two key contributors on this team in Shane Battier and Ray Allen. Its a matter of sacrifice, is Mario Chalmers worth the 5 to 6 million hes going to command to secure the PG position? Or would his money be better used to supplement the depth lost and have Norris and Douglas secure the backcourt?

It all depends on what Rio asks for, yes hes a key contributor, yes he steps up in the playoffs, but this offseason is a financial ballet and Rio might not be in a Heat uniform. Especially if Douglas can step into a niche role on this squad on the cheap.

Name a team that will give Mario a 6 Mil per year deal.

That's not a backup PG money, so what team is taking him to be a starter (besides us)?

[KingDavid]

I stopped judging these players by how they play on this team....not an accurate picture of ANY ROLE players value on THIS TEAM.....

As long as we are in a "win now" STATUS, we're not going to see guys like either Cole/Chalmers/Douglas do anything but make sure they bring the ball up and get it to "what we call" PLAYMAKERS

I understand where you're coming from. But I've seen what Rio at his best can do (rookie year) and he's not under utilized at all. Spo is using him to his strengths and that's defense and shooting. He used to be excellent at slashing and finishing with a floater but after he twisted his ankle he just completely collapsed...Then the marijuana stuff came to surface, eh. Now he thinks he's a top 10 PG and according to Bosh "close" to thinking he's better than LBJ. A bit of a hyperbole but the truth lies within his actions. He does too much on the wrong side of the ball. I don't mind the missed 3s and defensive fouls and the gambles for steals. I mind when he's basically doing anything other than shooting 3s on offense and driving more than he should. Maybe I have a bit of confirmation bias and think he drives more than he should because he sucks almost every time he does. I HATE that he walks the ball up the court every f'in possession and kills our clock. At the beginning of this season, his head was screwed on correctly and wanted to put all the effort on D that he could and got a ton of steals in the process. He came in this season with his ball-handling greatly improved and was driving in selectively and made the defense honest but stayed in his lane and got the big 3 the ball quick and hit his threes. He went away from that for some reason.

I honestly have no idea why Cole is playing this bad. Maybe he's trying to expand his game instead of sticking to what works? He also had a vicious floater in college too but that vanished as well.

I know LBJ and Wade have tendencies to over-dribble and play hero ball and Bosh being afraid to cross the 3pt line, it happens. But that's why we have other playmakers in Ray Allen and Michael Beasley (???). Role players get paid to do certain things and it goes over Rio and Cole's head at times. Has Spo limited their progression due to his decisions and coaching styles? Yes, but he's had his hand in making them champions as well. If they want more money or do too much, they can walk.

[Slot Machine]

I tried to tell y'all that Toney would fit our team. He's an off the ball PG and tenacious defender, sounds good to me.

[WD]

I stopped judging these players by how they play on this team....not an accurate picture of ANY ROLE players value on THIS TEAM.....

As long as we are in a "win now" STATUS, we're not going to see guys like either Cole/Chalmers/Douglas do anything but make sure they bring the ball up and get it to "what we call" PLAYMAKERS

I understand where you're coming from. But I've seen what Rio at his best can do (rookie year) and he's not under utilized at all. Spo is using him to his strengths and that's defense and shooting. He used to be excellent at slashing and finishing with a floater but after he twisted his ankle he just completely collapsed...Then the marijuana stuff came to surface, eh. Now he thinks he's a top 10 PG and according to Bosh "close" to thinking he's better than LBJ. A bit of a hyperbole but the truth lies within his actions. He does too much on the wrong side of the ball. I don't mind the missed 3s and defensive fouls and the gambles for steals. I mind when he's basically doing anything other than shooting 3s on offense and driving more than he should. Maybe I have a bit of confirmation bias and think he drives more than he should because he sucks almost every time he does. I HATE that he walks the ball up the court every f'in possession and kills our clock. At the beginning of this season, his head was screwed on correctly and wanted to put all the effort on D that he could and got a ton of steals in the process. He came in this season with his ball-handling greatly improved and was driving in selectively and made the defense honest but stayed in his lane and got the big 3 the ball quick and hit his threes. He went away from that for some reason.

I honestly have no idea why Cole is playing this bad. Maybe he's trying to expand his game instead of sticking to what works? He also had a vicious floater in college too but that vanished as well.

I know LBJ and Wade have tendencies to over-dribble and play hero ball and Bosh being afraid to cross the 3pt line, it happens. But that's why we have other playmakers in Ray Allen and Michael Beasley (???). Role players get paid to do certain things and it goes over Rio and Cole's head at times. Has Spo limited their progression due to his decisions and coaching styles? Yes, but he's had his hand in making them champions as well. If they want more money or do too much, they can walk.

I can't find anything to disagree with, you made some gr8 points

[heater4life]

Name a team that will give Mario a 6 Mil per year deal.

That's not a backup PG money, so what team is taking him to be a starter (besides us)?

The same poorly managed small market teams that give the likes of Josh Smith 4 years 54 million. Thats one of many examples. Do you really think a young PG at 27 being the starter on a potential 3peat team is going to settle for another 4 million per season?

You act as if Chalmers asking for 6 million is outrageous. Heres a little list for you:

Jose Calderon: 6.7M/ 3 years left
George Hill: 8M/ 3 years left
Jarrett Jack: 6.7M/ 4 years left
Brandon Jennings: 7.6M/ 3 years left
Jeremy Lin: 5.2M/ 2 years left

For his age and skill level, I dont see how he doesnt fall in a median of the type of contracts these other PG have signed.

Hes going to want to get paid. Barring an act of loyalty, hes going to get something in that range, from the Heat or from another. Now back to the main question, is PG depth more important than distributing those assets to other positions on the roster?

[RSCD3_]

I'd glad we have toney douglas

Love his hustle and Self Control

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[DefenseWins]

Ehh.... he is playing well, but for those criticizing Cole and Chalmers, those 2 have also had their string of good games. I mean before we use to say how Cole would overtake Chalmers, and before that how Chalmers would overtake Arroyo/Bibby/other garbage PG's we had, and so forth.

He is a good filler but down the road we shouldn't expect anything more. I've seen him play a good amount of minutes in NY and he is a bonehead just like Rio and Cole lol. I mean am I the only one who sees that he is a bit erratic? I wouldn't put him ahead of Chalmers or Cole UNLESS he is having a good game or something. Other than that, he is doing his job, and that's filling in for the guards we don't have in Wade and Allen right now.

[RSCD3_]

Ehh.... he is playing well, but for those criticizing Cole and Chalmers, those 2 have also had their string of good games. I mean before we use to say how Cole would overtake Chalmers, and before that how Chalmers would overtake Arroyo/Bibby/other garbage PG's we had, and so forth.

He is a good filler but down the road we shouldn't expect anything more. I've seen him play a good amount of minutes in NY and he is a bonehead just like Rio and Cole lol. I mean am I the only one who sees that he is a bit erratic? I wouldn't put him ahead of Chalmers or Cole UNLESS he is having a good game or something. Other than that, he is doing his job, and that's filling in for the guards we don't have in Wade and Allen right now.

I just think his hustle impacts the team which has been more lethargic this year defensively, if cole or chalmers are having bad nights we can at least put in this guy douglas.

Maybe I just like the defense too much
He could be a less dirty patrick beverly

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[xMADEinDADEx]

Wish he was a better 3 point shooter tho. Love his defense.

[Mars]

Some small sample-size, Doug-centric, yummy goodness...

Team is 9-1 with Doug E. Fresh starting.

[WD]

Thanks T. Douglas

[Altered_Beast]

Ehh.... he is playing well, but for those criticizing Cole and Chalmers, those 2 have also had their string of good games. I mean before we use to say how Cole would overtake Chalmers, and before that how Chalmers would overtake Arroyo/Bibby/other garbage PG's we had, and so forth.

He is a good filler but down the road we shouldn't expect anything more. I've seen him play a good amount of minutes in NY and he is a bonehead just like Rio and Cole lol. I mean am I the only one who sees that he is a bit erratic? I wouldn't put him ahead of Chalmers or Cole UNLESS he is having a good game or something. Other than that, he is doing his job, and that's filling in for the guards we don't have in Wade and Allen right now.

couldn't have said it better myself. Tony is playing well but by no means is he a clear upgrade over Cole and Chalmers. He is still prone to making some wtf plays. Our pgs as a whole aren't anything to behold

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[heater4life]

He is a good filler but down the road we shouldn't expect anything more. I've seen him play a good amount of minutes in NY and he is a bonehead just like Rio and Cole lol. I mean am I the only one who sees that he is a bit erratic? I wouldn't put him ahead of Chalmers or Cole UNLESS he is having a good game or something. Other than that, he is doing his job, and that's filling in for the guards we don't have in Wade and Allen right now.

I dont think hes better than Cole or Chalmers, hes just more focused/composed. Come playoff time I expect more from Chalmers and Cole, theres no reason for Rio and Cole to make those lethargic ass rotations that lead to open jumpers. They've been in the system too long.

What stands out with Toney is the grit, defensive prowess, maturity and he gets after the rebounds (which i dont expect our pg's to do, its nice though)

[CeCeySay]

No way in hell is Miami dumping either of them even if Toney Douglas leaves. Miami would be crazy to dump one of their only young assets because a veteran is stepping up. The only way either of them leave is if they choose to leave or we find an amazing young prospect through the draft somehow.

Its not a matter of dumping. Were possibly losing two key contributors on this team in Shane Battier and Ray Allen. Its a matter of sacrifice, is Mario Chalmers worth the 5 to 6 million hes going to command to secure the PG position? Or would his money be better used to supplement the depth lost and have Norris and Douglas secure the backcourt?

It all depends on what Rio asks for, yes hes a key contributor, yes he steps up in the playoffs, but this offseason is a financial ballet and Rio might not be in a Heat uniform. Especially if Douglas can step into a niche role on this squad on the cheap.

Name a team that will give Mario a 6 Mil per year deal.

That's not a backup PG money, so what team is taking him to be a starter (besides us)?