How do the 2014-15 Heat match up vs the 2014-15 Cavs?

number1joker · Post #41 » by **number1joker** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:29 am

*unnecessary language. Please keep it clean
--heat4life

HeatNation88 · Post #42 » by **HeatNation88** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:03 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
HeatNation88 wrote:Cavs lack toughness, defense, bench, and size...

How do they lack size? Love, Varejao, and Thompson aren't particularly tall I'll admit, but they all take up a lot of space and gobble up a lot of rebounds. Doesn't really fit the comparison with the 2010 heat

"Size" is important if your trying to win a title

LikeABosh · Post #43 » by **LikeABosh** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:07 pm

HeatNation88 wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
HeatNation88 wrote:Cavs lack toughness, defense, bench, and size...

How do they lack size? Love, Varejao, and Thompson aren't particularly tall I'll admit, but they all take up a lot of space and gobble up a lot of rebounds. Doesn't really fit the comparison with the 2010 heat

"Size" is important if your trying to win a title

Okay....so how do they lack size?

Post #44 » by **heat4life** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:21 pm

Size is not as important in today's NBA as having a capable rebounder, paint defender. The league has changed and while having Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan or even Roy Hibbert is nice, there aren't too many other bigs to worry about in the league.

Enso · Post #45 » by **Enso** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:43 pm

ifrosty13 wrote:On our best day and their worse day they will probably still beat us. It is what it is.

ifrosty13 · Post #46 » by **ifrosty13** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:27 pm

Enso wrote:
ifrosty13 wrote:On our best day and their worse day they will probably still beat us. It is what it is.

Hey, Im just being a realist about it. They are better than us at virtually every position with the exception of SG.

goodboy · Post #47 » by **goodboy** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:34 pm

ifrosty13 wrote:
Enso wrote:
ifrosty13 wrote:On our best day and their worse day they will probably still beat us. It is what it is.

Hey, Im just being a realist about it. They are better than us at virtually every position with the exception of SG.

True... though if Bosh plays like his Toronto Days which is very possible whilst improving his shooting % year by year.. I can see him giving Love run for his money.

This is where our bench needs to be dynamic, if Granger plays decent, a good 6th option - I can see us giving them trouble. Yes I know....IF

CoolD · Post #48 » by **CoolD** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:25 pm

I think the reason why I don't see us competing with them, they have much better balance, with LeBron he has shooters, that is going to just put us in quandary, we defend him one and one, he will eat us alive, you cheat of him, their shooters are going to make us pay. Even if the shooters miss, Kevin Love and Shawn Marion will get second chance points. Even LeBron is above average rebounder.
I would definite think we would have a shot at them, if Riley was able to get us, a shooter or two.
I am not talking about parking Bosh at the three point line. I am talking from our SF to PG position. And the fact it seems that Shabazz might not get play, being so behind the depth charts, I think we are going to lack shooting consistency.

I think we got talent, but I am not sure, it fits.
Don't get me wrong. I think we can be pretty descent, but their is huge difference, between being Atlanta Hawks good, of a couple years ago, and being great team.

I also don't see us being a great niche team, a la Bulls, that their defense is somewhat able to overcome a lot offensive liabilities.

If Spo is able to create this, then I would put him in a great coach category.
Though he didn't do it before LeBron, so unless he was able to grow, I am not sure he will be able to get it done.
I though hope I am 100 percent wrong. Even if we are okay team, I will be happy with the result if they give it their all on the court.

Wolfy1983 · Post #49 » by **Wolfy1983** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:15 am

Everyone thinks that Cleveland will be this juggernaut in year 1, well just look at what happened to us in year 1 with our big 3.

Team chemistry will play a huge factor. How will Kyrie perform not that he is not their #1 option? Even Wade had to adjust, but Wade was an impact player on the defensive end. How good will their Defense be because on paper it looks pretty weak. How good will David Blatt be? Woodson and D'Antoni had super teams and they failed miserably.

Lots of people seem to be overlooking these things.

ifrosty13 · Post #50 » by **ifrosty13** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:33 am

Difference between Irving and Wade is that Wade was option 1b in 2010, whereas Kyrie is option 3, and it's not even debatable.

Enso · Post #51 » by **Enso** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:35 am

digg211 wrote:Everyone thinks that Cleveland will be this juggernaut in year 1, well just look at what happened to us in year 1 with our big 3.

Team chemistry will play a huge factor. How will Kyrie perform not that he is not their #1 option? Even Wade had to adjust, but Wade was an impact player on the defensive end. How good will their Defense be because on paper it looks pretty weak. How good will David Blatt be? Woodson and D'Antoni had super teams and they failed miserably.

Lots of people seem to be overlooking these things.

I don't know where they'll get eliminated, but I truly believe they don't make it to the Finals. Maybe they'll prove me wrong and everything will work out perfectly but things rarely do. They've got too much inexperience.

krikor · Post #52 » by **krikor** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 5:08 am

obviously with lebron they are better.
but i am hopeful wade will rediscover his old self, he gave up alot of his game to accomodate lebron.
i see wade returning to his old self, and play more minutes/games too

we basically have 2 superstars in wade/bosh..they have 2 in irving/love ..our 2 is better , but lebron is the key difference.

krikor · Post #53 » by **krikor** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 5:10 am

Enso wrote:
digg211 wrote:Everyone thinks that Cleveland will be this juggernaut in year 1, well just look at what happened to us in year 1 with our big 3.

Team chemistry will play a huge factor. How will Kyrie perform not that he is not their #1 option? Even Wade had to adjust, but Wade was an impact player on the defensive end. How good will their Defense be because on paper it looks pretty weak. How good will David Blatt be? Woodson and D'Antoni had super teams and they failed miserably.

Lots of people seem to be overlooking these things.

I don't know where they'll get eliminated, but I truly believe they don't make it to the Finals. Maybe they'll prove me wrong and everything will work out perfectly but things rarely do. They've got too much inexperience.

if they were west, i would bet 95 % they wont make it to finals..
but in the east, there challenges are chicago and miami.indiana got dismantled with PG injury and stephenson loss.

i think chicago, lot depends how rose will be back..but floor spacing around him sucks.i expect him to choke playoffs.

Post #54 » by **DefenseWins** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 2:02 pm

Heh forgot Lebron knows our defense inside and out. He is a smart guy and will make us work, he knows how we over help. He has the shooters to beat us with too...

Huge disadvantage for us.

Post #55 » by **DefenseWins** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 2:12 pm

Enso wrote:
digg211 wrote:Everyone thinks that Cleveland will be this juggernaut in year 1, well just look at what happened to us in year 1 with our big 3.

Team chemistry will play a huge factor. How will Kyrie perform not that he is not their #1 option? Even Wade had to adjust, but Wade was an impact player on the defensive end. How good will their Defense be because on paper it looks pretty weak. How good will David Blatt be? Woodson and D'Antoni had super teams and they failed miserably.

Lots of people seem to be overlooking these things.

I don't know where they'll get eliminated, but I truly believe they don't make it to the Finals. Maybe they'll prove me wrong and everything will work out perfectly but things rarely do. They've got too much inexperience.

Then who beats them? Only 3 teams IMO can knock them out if they play their cards right and that's bulls, heat or wizards. A lot of people already have the bulls as favorites to knock out Lebron but all this hope on Rose is so weird. Besides 2010 he hasn't done anything and I know it's because of injuries, but even so why do people think they will go to the finals even with a healthy Rose. Not with Lebron around IMO. Anyway, inexperience does to mean much with a guy like Lebron on the team, he took a ****, inexperienced team to the finals before and he was what, 22-23 years old?

When they are in trouble they will just give Lebron the ball. Doesn't matter about the other guys playoff experience at that point because they won't matter. This is why you gotta defend Lebron and let everyone else beat you IMO.

dr3am · Post #56 » by **dr3am** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 4:20 pm

I think we match up pretty well with them as of right now unless they get Ray...their offense is better than ours but let's not forget that their 2 main stars (Irving & Love) have no playoff experience & are not committed on the defensive end...they also have a coach doesn't come nowhere close to the playoff experience that Spo has...Our main problem will be trying to slow down LeBron (obviously) & rebounding. With Bron gone our rebounding flaws will be exposed more than ever this season

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mab2039 · Post #57 » by **mab2039** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 6:56 pm

This cleveland team will be top 3 rebounding team in the league, which is achilles heel for the heat the last four years. Thats a lot of rebounds between LBJ, Love, Verajao and Tristan Thompson. Rebounding wise this team will be Bulls on steroids, that in itself is a big challenge for the heat imo. One forgotten aspect of their starting five is, they can all pass from positon 1 to 5. And as far as their defense, i think they can be top 10 in the league.

Tony15 · Post #58 » by **Tony15** » Tue Sep 2, 2014 11:51 am

HeatNation88 wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
HeatNation88 wrote:Cavs lack toughness, defense, bench, and size...

How do they lack size? Love, Varejao, and Thompson aren't particularly tall I'll admit, but they all take up a lot of space and gobble up a lot of rebounds. Doesn't really fit the comparison with the 2010 heat

"Size" is important if your trying to win a title

We won back to back titles without size, and at least CLE has more than capable rebounders.

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Wolfy1983 · Post #59 » by **Wolfy1983** » Thu Sep 4, 2014 3:47 am

RJM wrote:
digg211 wrote:They're better. Still I don't see them winning Jack. Irving is no Wade, hell he's not even better than a declining Wade and Love doesn't have the heart that Bosh does. That team will never win a title.

For a guy with not as much heart as Bosh did (keeping in mind he struggled with lottery teams in the Western Conference while Bosh wallowed in mediocrity in the weaker Eastern Conference), he sure puts up better scoring and rebounding numbers. Please tell me where this heart discovery came from.

Yes, Irving isn't Wade now, but Wade is declining and Irving will undoubtedly get better alongside LeBron James and Kevin Love in the coming years. A championship is very possible for that team, whether you like the fact that LeBron signed with them over Miami or not.

If Miami could do it, why not Cleveland? Love now has talent around him; I think it's time we sit back and watch without making extreme assumptions as though we had a crystal ball. Stop sounding so bitter.

It's always a numbers thing with you guys. Has love made crucial stops on the defensive end? Sure it's great to be a double double guy on offensive but if you're not making an effort on the other end, than I say yeah, he's missing something.

RJM · Post #60 » by **RJM** » Fri Sep 5, 2014 1:57 am

digg211 wrote:
RJM wrote:
digg211 wrote:They're better. Still I don't see them winning Jack. Irving is no Wade, hell he's not even better than a declining Wade and Love doesn't have the heart that Bosh does. That team will never win a title.

For a guy with not as much heart as Bosh did (keeping in mind he struggled with lottery teams in the Western Conference while Bosh wallowed in mediocrity in the weaker Eastern Conference), he sure puts up better scoring and rebounding numbers. Please tell me where this heart discovery came from.

Yes, Irving isn't Wade now, but Wade is declining and Irving will undoubtedly get better alongside LeBron James and Kevin Love in the coming years. A championship is very possible for that team, whether you like the fact that LeBron signed with them over Miami or not.

If Miami could do it, why not Cleveland? Love now has talent around him; I think it's time we sit back and watch without making extreme assumptions as though we had a crystal ball. Stop sounding so bitter.

It's always a numbers thing with you guys. Has love made crucial stops on the defensive end? Sure it's great to be a double double guy on offensive but if you're not making an effort on the other end, than I say yeah, he's missing something.

Yes, numbers are indicative of factual data. It helps in the validation of a point. Was Bosh always known as a great defender prior to joining Miami? I don't think so. He was maybe average. As far as interior play, an aging Shaquille O'Neal referred to him as the "RuPaul of big men," not long after dropping 45 on him. But Bosh, already an intelligent player and human being, would find a niche in Miami's intelligent defensive system. That changed.

He came to Miami and his defense improved, not just because of his own talents, but because of the system around him. We don't know if Love will replicate that, but we should know by now that we can't automatically assume that Love will be a poor defensive player even now that he's surrounded with the best team he's ever had around him. It's hypocritical.

It also means you don't know your history. According to Basketball Reference, Chris Bosh had an offensive/defensive rating of 113/107 in the years preceding his arrival in Miami. That's about six seasons. Kevin Love's offensive/defensive rating through six seasons? 117/106. Chris Bosh's offensive/defensive win shares during that time? 42.7/19.1. Very good. Kevin Love? 34.1/12.9.

For the second time, let's wait and see what Love does with James/Irving before making uninformed assumptions. People will assume all HEAT fans think in this manner and it only makes us look dumber and more ignorant.