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Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal

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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#81 » by heater4life » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:16 pm

JLop wrote:
heater4life wrote:
gom wrote:
You can sign him in July. You will have about 12M cap space because the salary cap is changing and you don't have to resign Shannon Brown.


Sure you can, technically speaking, but again, will he accept 12M/year? With his output,age, and potential? Highly unlikely. Even if it were the case, he takes the pay cut, it comes at the expense of Deng and Cole. As you have to renounce their rights to use the cap space.


This is only an example: let's say that we sign Greg Monroe to a four years contract for the amount of $64 million ($16 million per year). In the year 2015 Monroe will receive $10 million, in the year 2016 Monroe will receive $16 million, in the year 2017 Monroe will receive $18 million, and in the year 2018 Monroe will receive $20 million. It might not be the best example, but at least it will give you an idea.



The Heat cannot sign Monroe unless many people take paycuts and they renounce rights to some key players. Hence trade ideas. End of story.

Your trying to explain something to me that im already aware of and thats irrelevant to an initial signing. You and gom need to brush up on how the CBA and cap works a bit.

I dont mean it as an offense; were just having redundant discussion on things that dont work under the cap.

Edit: Also, your making up numbers for the contract you illustrated. Annual raises in the NBA are fixed to a certain percentage, you cant raise a salary from 10M to 16M the following year like in your example.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#82 » by JLop » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:48 pm

heater4life wrote:
JLop wrote:
heater4life wrote:
Sure you can, technically speaking, but again, will he accept 12M/year? With his output,age, and potential? Highly unlikely. Even if it were the case, he takes the pay cut, it comes at the expense of Deng and Cole. As you have to renounce their rights to use the cap space.


This is only an example: let's say that we sign Greg Monroe to a four years contract for the amount of $64 million ($16 million per year). In the year 2015 Monroe will receive $10 million, in the year 2016 Monroe will receive $16 million, in the year 2017 Monroe will receive $18 million, and in the year 2018 Monroe will receive $20 million. It might not be the best example, but at least it will give you an idea.



The Heat cannot sign Monroe unless many people take paycuts and they renounce rights to some key players. Hence trade ideas. End of story.

Your trying to explain something to me that im already aware of and thats irrelevant to an initial signing. You and gom need to brush up on how the CBA and cap works a bit.

I dont mean it as an offense; were just having redundant discussion on things that dont work under the cap.

Edit: Also, your making up numbers for the contract you illustrated. Annual raises in the NBA are fixed to a certain percentage, you cant raise a salary from 10M to 16M the following year like in your example.


Of course that I am making up numbers and this is why it is an example. I don't see anybody paying me to elaborate an NBA contract. This is just for educational purposes and the whole idea is to show that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Anyway, it's always good to share a healthy discussion with different points of view.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#83 » by Slot Machine » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:50 pm

You guys know we would have his Bird Rights if we acquire Monroe via trade, correct?

I mean, all the trades proposed for him in this thread have zero chance of happening but if we somehow did manage to acquire him, re-signing wouldn't be a problem.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#84 » by BFRESH44 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:15 pm

Slot Machine wrote:You guys know we would have his Bird Rights if we acquire Monroe via trade, correct?

I mean, all the trades proposed for him in this thread have zero chance of happening but if we somehow did manage to acquire him, re-signing wouldn't be a problem.


Actually this isn't accurate.

Because he signed his qualifying offer tender with Detroit, Monroe will be a non bird free agent, therefore his bird rights don't transfer in a trade. So that pretty much makes a trade really difficult to make. You'd have to get pretty creative to make that trade worthwhile.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#85 » by Slot Machine » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:18 pm

BFRESH44 wrote:
Slot Machine wrote:You guys know we would have his Bird Rights if we acquire Monroe via trade, correct?

I mean, all the trades proposed for him in this thread have zero chance of happening but if we somehow did manage to acquire him, re-signing wouldn't be a problem.


Actually this isn't accurate.

Because he signed his qualifying offer tender with Detroit, Monroe will be a non bird free agent, therefore his bird rights don't transfer in a trade. So that pretty much makes a trade really difficult to make. You'd have to get pretty creative to make that trade worthwhile.

Oh ****, that's my bad. Completely forgot about that.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#86 » by heater4life » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:24 pm

BFRESH44 wrote:
Slot Machine wrote:You guys know we would have his Bird Rights if we acquire Monroe via trade, correct?

I mean, all the trades proposed for him in this thread have zero chance of happening but if we somehow did manage to acquire him, re-signing wouldn't be a problem.


Actually this isn't accurate.

Because he signed his qualifying offer tender with Detroit, Monroe will be a non bird free agent, therefore his bird rights don't transfer in a trade. So that pretty much makes a trade really difficult to make. You'd have to get pretty creative to make that trade worthwhile.


Interesting.

I didnt know Detroit lost his bird rights due to the QO. Or is it that his rights are not transferable via trade due to the QO?
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#87 » by heater4life » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:29 pm

Slot Machine wrote:I mean, all the trades proposed for him in this thread have zero chance of happening but if we somehow did manage to acquire him, re-signing wouldn't be a problem.


Correct. But its fun to discuss and try to come up with neat trade ideas. Some more pheasable than others.

I do honestly believe if this team is struggling Riley will try to move Deng for a 2016 expiring contract. Deng is looking for his last big deal, were not doing to give it to him. McBob I think will be moved as well. He was signed to be a cog in a Lebron lead team. Now he has a contract that extends into 2017, when the Heats eyes are set in 2016. I wouldnt be surprised to see either dealt within the next two seasons.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#88 » by puppa bear » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:09 pm

heater4life wrote:
BFRESH44 wrote:
Slot Machine wrote:You guys know we would have his Bird Rights if we acquire Monroe via trade, correct?

I mean, all the trades proposed for him in this thread have zero chance of happening but if we somehow did manage to acquire him, re-signing wouldn't be a problem.


Actually this isn't accurate.

Because he signed his qualifying offer tender with Detroit, Monroe will be a non bird free agent, therefore his bird rights don't transfer in a trade. So that pretty much makes a trade really difficult to make. You'd have to get pretty creative to make that trade worthwhile.


Interesting.

I didnt know Detroit lost his bird rights due to the QO. Or is it that his rights are not transferable via trade due to the QO?

The second one. His contract is for one year, meaning his bird rights are not transferable, but if Detroit doesn't not trade him they retain his bird rights this off season.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#89 » by heater4life » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:21 pm

puppa bear wrote:
The second one. His contract is for one year, meaning his bird rights are not transferable, but if Detroit doesn't not trade him they retain his bird rights this off season.


Learned something new about QO.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#90 » by contract » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:13 pm

You all better lower your sights, because there is zero chance of us trading for or signing a guy like Monroe anytime soon. Think role players, because that is all we'll be able to afford or that we have the assets to trade for.

Some glass beads may get you Manhattan, but they won't get you a player the caliber of Greg Monroe.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#91 » by ThaFranchize84 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:16 pm

With all of these rumors circulating about the Cavs looking to make a deal. Do you think Riley would deal Cole and Anderson to the Cavs for Waiters and Haywood. Before you go crazy and say no we will never help out the Cavs. Waiters while a knucklehead would be able to be mentored by Wade whose game at that age is an exact replica of Waiters. It would give us a really nice scoring punch off of the bench and allow Spo to then start Napier or move Chalmers back into the lineup. As far as losing Birdman, I think that what made Birdman great these past few years was playing off Lebron and since we dont have that he is relagated to what we have seen this year. Thoughts?
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#92 » by DefenseWins » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:23 pm

ThaFranchize84 wrote:With all of these rumors circulating about the Cavs looking to make a deal. Do you think Riley would deal Cole and Anderson to the Cavs for Waiters and Haywood. Before you go crazy and say no we will never help out the Cavs. Waiters while a knucklehead would be able to be mentored by Wade whose game at that age is an exact replica of Waiters. It would give us a really nice scoring punch off of the bench and allow Spo to then start Napier or move Chalmers back into the lineup. As far as losing Birdman, I think that what made Birdman great these past few years was playing off Lebron and since we dont have that he is relagated to what we have seen this year. Thoughts?



We'd get them the back up PG they need, the rim protector they wanted during the summer, and remove the team chucker for them.

Waiters only knows one thing. To chuck the ball. What makes Wade special is he can pass, and we need such a player. Waiters looks so uncomfortable passing the ball. We need players with SKILL besides shooting.

Haywood is there for the Cavs to get cap relief later on. He is trade bait but he is useless. The Cavs don't even use him and they need him lol.

We need a CENTER, more than a chucker, and Haywood at 11mil about to be waived ain't the answer. Wade has heart and is unselfish. Waiters is the exact opposite. Do. not. want.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#93 » by gom » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:14 pm

heater4life wrote:
gom wrote:You can sign him in July. You will have about 12M cap space because the salary cap is changing and you don't have to resign Shannon Brown.

The Heat cannot sign Monroe unless many people take paycuts and they renounce rights to some key players. Hence trade ideas. End of story.

Your trying to explain something to me that im already aware of and thats irrelevant to an initial signing. You and gom need to brush up on how the CBA and cap works a bit.


I do know how the CBA and cap works, but... I am completely wrong here, so I am going to salt and pepper my crow and take a bit bite.

Yummy, right?

Ok, I'll explain where I went wrong.

First of all, I thought that the cap would be higher than $66.5 next year because of all the talk of gradually increasing to the $90 figure expected in 2016-7. I had seen a number like $72 and thought it was from someone in the NBA. It was not. It is just a rumor.

Second, our salary totals next year if we extend the team option to Hamilton, Dawkins, & Cole and Wade,Deng,& Granger all take their player options is $77,063,379.00 (aka $5M higher than this year). I had no idea it was so much higher. This year's is $72,099,089.00 and we also have Shannon Brown. I thought if we didn't resign Cole ($3,036,927.00) & Brown ($915,243.00), added the amount we are between us and the cap now ($3,489,467.10) & the increase in cap ($3.3M approx) we would have *almost* $12m. It's actually $11m. But... All the contracts go up too.

If we don't take the player option on Cole and do not resign Brown we have $6,424,217.91 below the luxury cap. The only way we can get to the level needed to sign a $12m player (for one year contract - which is what every smart player will do next year) is to dump players.

So, anyway, I stand corrected. I do know better. My numbers were wrong. That's why I thought we had enough to "just sign" Greg Monroe.

Thanks.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#94 » by gom » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:21 pm

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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#95 » by heater4life » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:53 pm

gom wrote:So, anyway, I stand corrected. I do know better. My numbers were wrong. That's why I thought we had enough to "just sign" Greg Monroe.

Thanks.


Its not easy to understand how it all works, hell, BFresh taught me something about QO just a couple posts up. Its not about right or wrong.

Just helps in discussion when were on the same page.

No need to thank, if you have questions, ill try to answer. The business end of basketball is just as fun.
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Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#96 » by puppa bear » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:51 am

Minny now has Martin out as well - great time for then to go full-tank and give Bennett/Dieng as many minutes as possible - is this a chance to trade for Pek, Thad or Brewer? Are any of them even desirable to Heat?
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#97 » by puppa bear » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:11 am

DefenseWins wrote:
ThaFranchize84 wrote:With all of these rumors circulating about the Cavs looking to make a deal. Do you think Riley would deal Cole and Anderson to the Cavs for Waiters and Haywood. Before you go crazy and say no we will never help out the Cavs. Waiters while a knucklehead would be able to be mentored by Wade whose game at that age is an exact replica of Waiters. It would give us a really nice scoring punch off of the bench and allow Spo to then start Napier or move Chalmers back into the lineup. As far as losing Birdman, I think that what made Birdman great these past few years was playing off Lebron and since we dont have that he is relagated to what we have seen this year. Thoughts?



We'd get them the back up PG they need, the rim protector they wanted during the summer, and remove the team chucker for them.

Waiters only knows one thing. To chuck the ball. What makes Wade special is he can pass, and we need such a player. Waiters looks so uncomfortable passing the ball. We need players with SKILL besides shooting.

Haywood is there for the Cavs to get cap relief later on. He is trade bait but he is useless. The Cavs don't even use him and they need him lol.

We need a CENTER, more than a chucker, and Haywood at 11mil about to be waived ain't the answer. Wade has heart and is unselfish. Waiters is the exact opposite. Do. not. want.

I think that TT would be the price we'd ask for giving them Cole/Bird. In reality we're not quite contending, so I'm not fussed making them better now. However, doing a Cole/Bird for Waiters/TT swap would be a huge talent win for us, and give the team a really good youth movement to complement the veterans. For them the trade helps settle LeBron on the Cavs (we're giving him 2 winners who he wants to play with & know how to play with him, plus clearing minutes to sign Ray). I think that's a starting point to negotiate from...

Rio/Napier
Wade/Waiters
Deng/Ennis
McBob/Williams
Bosh/TT
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#98 » by gom » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:43 pm

Do you think we could trade Norris Cole for Andrei Kirilenko? I wouldn't think that the Nets expect much - given the circumstances of the moment. He might even be waived. Kirilenko could help our defense. Cole is better than Gutierrez and could give a young spark to their team. He might even be able to find a home there.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#99 » by UD4MVP » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:50 pm

gom wrote:Do you think we could trade Norris Cole for Andrei Kirilenko? I wouldn't think that the Nets expect much - given the circumstances of the moment. He might even be waived. Kirilenko could help our defense. Cole is better than Gutierrez and could give a young spark to their team. He might even be able to find a home there.

I wouldn't trade, I'd wait till he gets bought out if he goes to Philly. I havent seen or heard of AK in a bit. I wonder if he has anything left.
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Re: Thoughts on a post Dec 15 deal 

Post#100 » by EscapoTHB » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:55 am

I think we need a backup Sg, one less pg, and a center or pf to play with bosh.

Cole/Bird for Waiters/Haywood and our pick back would be a good deal imo. I dont want tt. His agent is rich paul and he wants a lot of money.

There are shots here for Waiters off the bench or when Wade is injured.

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