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What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions?

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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#141 » by DayofMourning » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:23 pm

HIF wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
HIF wrote:
Remind me how many championships that Durant has won?

The Heat way would be to trade for Durant now that he has proven to be great.


What does Durant's championship count have to do with his ability as a player? Lebron had to join two all stars and get a great group of talent surrounding him before he won one. One player doesn't win a championship, teams do. You know that, you're just being stubborn and trying to find ways to tip toe around the obvious.

Cherry picking talent from another team doesn't equate to a better strategy than building a team through the draft. The Heat had to account for the greatest offseason haul in NBA history in order to win championships. That's such a rare feat, and I doubt it will be done again any time soon. However, the key to it all was because of their tank worthy acquisition, Dwyane Wade.


Not quite sure why you're getting so uptight.

You want to tank because you think it's the way to win a championship and you are happy to pay to watch a team that is trying to lose for however many number of years it takes. I don't.

I'm not tip toeing the obvious I'm disagreeing fundamentally with you.

Tanking is wrong. As is your belief that it will make your team a "winner". If we tank we get maybe the 8th pick - yet you seem to think that's more likely to be a Durant than a nothing. You do realise that my suggestion of Oden was in direct relation to Durant don't you? Oden was seen as the best pick and if we had the choice this season between Rookie Oden and Rookie Durant we would pick Rookie Oden. Furthermore I'm suggesting that if we somehow lucked into the best player of the last 10 years (as Durant is) which is so extremely unlikely that still doesn't win us a championship. Oklahoma not only have Durant but they have Westbrook and several other fantastic players and they have won ZERO championships.

Winning is about management, trading and good luck. That is proven whereas your tanking idea has proven to win nothing.

And then you insist that tanking and drafting is the way to win. Heat, Spurs, Lakers, Celtics show it's not.

But whatever where we disagree fundamentally is in the wrongness of tanking.

You're not going to change my opinion. I'm not going to change yours. Just accept that other people have a different view than you and you'll enjoy the forum more without needing to repeat the same thing ad nauseum.


Why are you getting so uptight? I'm merely breaking down the fallacies in your point of view.

The easy answer to tanking is Beasley. If you tank, you get Beasley. Beasley, Beasley, Beasley. Ad nauseum.

You used Beasley, so I used Durant. But since I used Durant as an example, then I expect every player drafted at any position due to tanking to be Durant level. That's what you are inferring. That's what you read out of my comments. That's why I feel the need to debunk your opinion. To show how biased you are in your beliefs. You have no issue having a strong opinion of others when you post, but have put up your defenses and become surprised that someone would take the time to offer up a detailed response to a poor point of view of yours. Welcome to the boards HIF. You've been christened.

Anyway, you're free to have your opinion. I just felt like having a go at you. No hard feelings.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#142 » by HIF » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:41 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
HIF wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
What does Durant's championship count have to do with his ability as a player? Lebron had to join two all stars and get a great group of talent surrounding him before he won one. One player doesn't win a championship, teams do. You know that, you're just being stubborn and trying to find ways to tip toe around the obvious.

Cherry picking talent from another team doesn't equate to a better strategy than building a team through the draft. The Heat had to account for the greatest offseason haul in NBA history in order to win championships. That's such a rare feat, and I doubt it will be done again any time soon. However, the key to it all was because of their tank worthy acquisition, Dwyane Wade.


Not quite sure why you're getting so uptight.

You want to tank because you think it's the way to win a championship and you are happy to pay to watch a team that is trying to lose for however many number of years it takes. I don't.

I'm not tip toeing the obvious I'm disagreeing fundamentally with you.

Tanking is wrong. As is your belief that it will make your team a "winner". If we tank we get maybe the 8th pick - yet you seem to think that's more likely to be a Durant than a nothing. You do realise that my suggestion of Oden was in direct relation to Durant don't you? Oden was seen as the best pick and if we had the choice this season between Rookie Oden and Rookie Durant we would pick Rookie Oden. Furthermore I'm suggesting that if we somehow lucked into the best player of the last 10 years (as Durant is) which is so extremely unlikely that still doesn't win us a championship. Oklahoma not only have Durant but they have Westbrook and several other fantastic players and they have won ZERO championships.

Winning is about management, trading and good luck. That is proven whereas your tanking idea has proven to win nothing.

And then you insist that tanking and drafting is the way to win. Heat, Spurs, Lakers, Celtics show it's not.

But whatever where we disagree fundamentally is in the wrongness of tanking.

You're not going to change my opinion. I'm not going to change yours. Just accept that other people have a different view than you and you'll enjoy the forum more without needing to repeat the same thing ad nauseum.


Why are you getting so uptight? I'm merely breaking down the fallacies in your point of view.

The easy answer to tanking is Beasley. If you tank, you get Beasley. Beasley, Beasley, Beasley. Ad nauseum.

You used Beasley, so I used Durant. But since I used Durant as an example, then I expect every player drafted at any position due to tanking to be Durant level. That's what you are inferring. That's what you read out of my comments. That's why I feel the need to debunk your opinion. To show how biased you are in your beliefs. You have no issue having a strong opinion of others when you post, but have put up your defenses and become surprised that someone would take the time to offer up a detailed response to a poor point of view of yours. Welcome to the boards HIF. You've been christened.

Anyway, you're free to have your opinion. I just felt like having a go at you. No hard feelings.


:lol: You haven't offered a detailed response.

And then you make up lies to "break down my fallacies"

I mentioned Beasley once because that's the last high pick we got at the same time I mentioned Oden. Beasley is far more the norm than Durant - the only player you mentioned.

your argument is flawed in that you see tanking as a way to winning. Recently lots of teams have taken to tanking but it hasn't led to winning.

My argument is that clever management and trading is how teams win not through drafting which is far more about luck.

btw thanks for "christening" me - even though I've been on the boards for a long time. And even though many "posters" - many of whom are no longer on the Heat forum - have stated how they've abused me before. :lol:

Simple fact - you agree with tanking, I don't . Accept it and move on.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#143 » by DayofMourning » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:25 pm

HIF wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
HIF wrote:
Not quite sure why you're getting so uptight.

You want to tank because you think it's the way to win a championship and you are happy to pay to watch a team that is trying to lose for however many number of years it takes. I don't.

I'm not tip toeing the obvious I'm disagreeing fundamentally with you.

Tanking is wrong. As is your belief that it will make your team a "winner". If we tank we get maybe the 8th pick - yet you seem to think that's more likely to be a Durant than a nothing. You do realise that my suggestion of Oden was in direct relation to Durant don't you? Oden was seen as the best pick and if we had the choice this season between Rookie Oden and Rookie Durant we would pick Rookie Oden. Furthermore I'm suggesting that if we somehow lucked into the best player of the last 10 years (as Durant is) which is so extremely unlikely that still doesn't win us a championship. Oklahoma not only have Durant but they have Westbrook and several other fantastic players and they have won ZERO championships.

Winning is about management, trading and good luck. That is proven whereas your tanking idea has proven to win nothing.

And then you insist that tanking and drafting is the way to win. Heat, Spurs, Lakers, Celtics show it's not.

But whatever where we disagree fundamentally is in the wrongness of tanking.

You're not going to change my opinion. I'm not going to change yours. Just accept that other people have a different view than you and you'll enjoy the forum more without needing to repeat the same thing ad nauseum.


Why are you getting so uptight? I'm merely breaking down the fallacies in your point of view.

The easy answer to tanking is Beasley. If you tank, you get Beasley. Beasley, Beasley, Beasley. Ad nauseum.

You used Beasley, so I used Durant. But since I used Durant as an example, then I expect every player drafted at any position due to tanking to be Durant level. That's what you are inferring. That's what you read out of my comments. That's why I feel the need to debunk your opinion. To show how biased you are in your beliefs. You have no issue having a strong opinion of others when you post, but have put up your defenses and become surprised that someone would take the time to offer up a detailed response to a poor point of view of yours. Welcome to the boards HIF. You've been christened.

Anyway, you're free to have your opinion. I just felt like having a go at you. No hard feelings.


:lol: You haven't offered a detailed response.

And then you make up lies to "break down my fallacies"

I mentioned Beasley once because that's the last high pick we got at the same time I mentioned Oden. Beasley is far more the norm than Durant - the only player you mentioned.

your argument is flawed in that you see tanking as a way to winning. Recently lots of teams have taken to tanking but it hasn't led to winning.

My argument is that clever management and trading is how teams win not through drafting which is far more about luck.

btw thanks for "christening" me - even though I've been on the boards for a long time. And even though many "posters" - many of whom are no longer on the Heat forum - have stated how they've abused me before. :lol:

Simple fact - you agree with tanking, I don't . Accept it and move on.


At what point did I offer up any lies? :lol:

You're clutching at straws.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#144 » by HIF » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:10 pm

Moved on.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#145 » by DayofMourning » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:25 pm

So Okafor had a strong game last night. Easily his best rebounding game of the season, an outlier if you will based on his performance up to this point. He's continuing to show a poor performance at the line though, barely 50% for the season so far. I thought he'd be better there to be honest.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#146 » by Altered_Beast » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:15 pm

going by these numbers http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm
Dream Scenario (emphasis on dream scenario)
- cole gets traded this year for an expiring
- deng and granger do not pick up their player options and hit the market, or granger retires dont matter

-sign jimmy butler to a fat contract
-offer dorell wright a mle type contract as well as a good backup pf like darell arthur
-resign shawne to another min contract as well as whiteside/dawkins
-draft best possible big man

pg - chalmers/napier
sg - wade/ennis/dawkins
sf - butler/wright/williams
pf - mcroberts/arthur/haslem
c- bosh/birdman/whiteside/rookie*

thats a pretty solid team securing a future all star in jimmy butler who has a good relationship with wade and can learn a lot from him and spo wont run him into the ground like thibs. then in 2016 is when we make a big splash and sign finally a decent bigman or point guard.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#147 » by DayofMourning » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:24 pm

Altered_Beast wrote:going by these numbers http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm
Dream Scenario (emphasis on dream scenario)
- cole gets traded this year for an expiring
- deng and granger do not pick up their player options and hit the market, or granger retires dont matter

-sign jimmy butler to a fat contract
-offer dorell wright a mle type contract as well as a good backup pf like darell arthur
-resign shawne to another min contract as well as whiteside/dawkins
-draft best possible big man

pg - chalmers/napier
sg - wade/ennis/dawkins
sf - butler/wright/williams
pf - mcroberts/arthur/haslem
c- bosh/birdman/whiteside/rookie*

thats a pretty solid team securing a future all star in jimmy butler who has a good relationship with wade and can learn a lot from him and spo wont run him into the ground like thibs. then in 2016 is when we make a big splash and sign finally a decent bigman or point guard.


I like how Butler has taken his game to another level. Its hard to gauge his worth off just a quarter of a season though. If he keeps his performance and percentages up then he'd be due for a good contract.

If we were going to bring him in I'd contemplate putting him at the 2, and moving Wade to the point. Wade pretty much runs the show when he's on the floor anyways, so its just a label for him. Let Ennis start at the 3. Bosh at the 4. That would help limit the major deficiencies we've had at point recently. Emphasizes Wade's passing ability too. Play to our strengths.

Hassan won't get starter's minutes and he's the guy left on the roster who'd fit that role best next to Bosh. We need to move to a traditional center. We can't afford a free agent other than Butler unless something abnormal happens. The draft would be a possibility but we'd have to have a first rounder to get a starting caliber center.

A starting lineup of:

Wade
Butler
Ennis
Bosh
?

Good length and athleticism from 1 to 4. Good defensive ability as well. Just need that 5.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#148 » by DayofMourning » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:40 pm

Prospect watch:

Karl Towns 4 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks in 20 minutes vs. UCLA

Dakari Johnson 5 points, 4 rebounds, 4 blocks, and 6 assists in 20 minutes vs. UCLA

Towns is a top 2 talent

Dakari might be a late first rounder.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#149 » by Altered_Beast » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:35 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
Altered_Beast wrote:going by these numbers http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm
Dream Scenario (emphasis on dream scenario)
- cole gets traded this year for an expiring
- deng and granger do not pick up their player options and hit the market, or granger retires dont matter

-sign jimmy butler to a fat contract
-offer dorell wright a mle type contract as well as a good backup pf like darell arthur
-resign shawne to another min contract as well as whiteside/dawkins
-draft best possible big man

pg - chalmers/napier
sg - wade/ennis/dawkins
sf - butler/wright/williams
pf - mcroberts/arthur/haslem
c- bosh/birdman/whiteside/rookie*

thats a pretty solid team securing a future all star in jimmy butler who has a good relationship with wade and can learn a lot from him and spo wont run him into the ground like thibs. then in 2016 is when we make a big splash and sign finally a decent bigman or point guard.


I like how Butler has taken his game to another level. Its hard to gauge his worth off just a quarter of a season though. If he keeps his performance and percentages up then he'd be due for a good contract.

If we were going to bring him in I'd contemplate putting him at the 2, and moving Wade to the point. Wade pretty much runs the show when he's on the floor anyways, so its just a label for him. Let Ennis start at the 3. Bosh at the 4. That would help limit the major deficiencies we've had at point recently. Emphasizes Wade's passing ability too. Play to our strengths.

Hassan won't get starter's minutes and he's the guy left on the roster who'd fit that role best next to Bosh. We need to move to a traditional center. We can't afford a free agent other than Butler unless something abnormal happens. The draft would be a possibility but we'd have to have a first rounder to get a starting caliber center.

A starting lineup of:

Wade
Butler
Ennis
Bosh
?

Good length and athleticism from 1 to 4. Good defensive ability as well. Just need that 5.

agreed. the 5 is the weakest position in the nba atm, so thats why i assumed butler at the 3 and mcbob/bosh front court. our best hope is 2016 to nab a center cause we surely wont get one through draft/trades
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#150 » by DayofMourning » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:56 pm

One prospect to keep an eye on is Notre Dame's Jerian Grant. He's currently the NCAA leader in win shares. He's a red shirt senior and has some pretty darn nice stats playing in the ACC. nbadraft.net has him going in the second round.

Here's a link to his stats:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... ant-1.html

Fun clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-AF-88uKs

Well worth a look.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#151 » by DayofMourning » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:09 pm

6.3 assists to 1.3 turnovers for Jerian Grant btw....wow.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#152 » by gom » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:40 pm

I cannot see this team improving, draft picks or not, with Spoelstra at the helm. If you give him good young talent, all they will do is sit on the bench. We cannot make a plan for the future without changing the command.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#153 » by GreenHat » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:52 pm

I don't know how you can go on an anti-tank post and put up the Spurs as an example. The Spurs are the best example of a successful tank.

The very start of this dynasty was lucking into the Duncan pick after an injury riddled season that they clearly were not trying to win in. Since tanking that year they have been the most successful team in the league.

If they had tried to make that team better that year after Robinson got hurt that franchise would have suffered greatly in the next few years.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#154 » by DayofMourning » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:44 am

Do we own the Sixers' 2nd round pick this coming draft? I was looking at outstanding trades here (http://www.prosportstransactions.com/ba ... s/2015.htm) and it looks like it would be ours, if not Boston's. Anybody know for sure?

Edit-I reread it and the Joel Anthony trade took it from us.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#155 » by DefenseWins » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:16 am

It's a shame they won't develop our young talent. Speaking of the Spurs, besides Duncan all their other picks weren't so high yet they developed them into great players.

Parker was 28th, Splitter is 28th, Leonard was actually Indiana's pick at 15 (makes me think we should trade Rio then or someone for a high pick to luck out), Manu is a 2nd rounder

Its not like they kept getting 1st round picks (edit HIGH draft picks I mean) and ****. They got their picks, developed them. They probably had some busts in there but besides some off season additions, their core was drafted and cultivated.

We don't have that. We CAN... and if only our rookies were able to show what they could do - like lets say Napier is a rising player, not exactly a star but he can be good in this league if he bulks up a bit (can this summer lol), but grooming players really would help with the 2016 attraction. I bet you Shaq doesn't come here if Wade isn't unleashed. SVG let the young dudes play and gave the ball to Wade's hands in important moments. Spo would be having Wade on the bench if he was the coach at that time.

So far I don't see any good reason for anyone to join us. Oh we'll have cap space, but so will others. The more I think about this, the more I think it will be a huge bust...

If anything, whats likely to happen is Wade retires. Thing is we still can't tank to get a #1, because Bosh will still be on the team for 3 more years after 2016 I believe, and being paid HIGHLY. We're stuck. Oh, AND we dont have that much 1st rounders going forward... unless we trade Bosh for like 3 1st rounders lmao.

Now we can't even trade away guys for 1st picks lol. Everyone has 2 year deals...

AND we won't develop our young guns? AND we're playing old geezers because we're trying to be competitive and get back to the Finals (LOL!!)? Heat need to do some re-evaluating.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#156 » by UD4MVP » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:45 am

DefenseWins wrote:It's a shame they won't develop our young talent. Speaking of the Spurs, besides Duncan all their other picks weren't so high yet they developed them into great players.

Parker was 28th, Splitter is 28th, Leonard was actually Indiana's pick at 15 (makes me think we should trade Rio then or someone for a high pick to luck out), Manu is a 2nd rounder

Its not like they kept getting 1st round picks and ****. They got their picks, developed them. They probably had some busts in there but besides some off season additions, their core was drafted and cultivated.

We don't have that. We CAN... and if only our rookies were able to show what they could do - like lets say Napier is a rising player, not exactly a star but he can be good in this league if he bulks up a bit (can this summer lol), but grooming players really would help with the 2016 attraction. I bet you Shaq doesn't come here if Wade isn't unleashed. SVG let the young dudes play and gave the ball to Wade's hands in important moments. Spo would be having Wade on the bench if he was the coach at that time.

So far I don't see any good reason for anyone to join us. Oh we'll have cap space, but so will others. The more I think about this, the more I think it will be a huge bust...

If anything, whats likely to happen is Wade retires. Thing is we still can't tank to get a #1, because Bosh will still be on the team for 3 more years after 2016 I believe, and being paid HIGHLY. We're stuck. Oh, AND we dont have that much 1st rounders going forward... unless we trade Bosh for like 3 1st rounders lmao.

Now we can't even trade away guys for 1st picks lol. Everyone has 2 year deals...

AND we won't develop our young guns? AND we're playing old geezers because we're trying to be competitive and get back to the Finals (LOL!!)? Heat need to do some re-evaluating.

Completely agree with you man. I was so optimistic during the preseason cause I was really impressed by Napier and Ennis who looked ready to be at least regular rotation guys. The undrafted guys we got too in Birch, and Dawkins looked like absolute steals.Those string of comebacks in the preseason they pulled off were arguably the most exciting stretch.. other than our 5-2 start lol..Like I don't think those guys are future multiple all time stars but they are young and got game.. I remember hearing how Pop took Stephen Jackson to the side and told him he was too old, and that it was time for Danny Green to play. Next thing you know that kid was **** on us in the finals. Veteran leadership is not a damn issue for us. We don't need to surround our 30-year old all stars with gasbags and a guy who's not gonna be here in Cole and who is sabotaging Napier's career. I'm afraid that kids confidence is gonna be gone and never come back. At this point, I'd consider the season a success if those guys can finally get on the court and stay there. I don't care if its playoff contention or not, I just wanna see the team give us some hope of a future..
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#157 » by DefenseWins » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:47 am

we got our pick in around 2020-23 right?

just draft Wade's son, Zaire... Z WADE LMAO

he atleast tries to shoot 3's unlike his father at an early age, tank and get him then build around him. WE SET FOR THE NEXT DECADE AFTA DAT
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#158 » by SweetTouch » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:56 am

Well my fellow heatles, the first step in Getting the King back has been accomplished

Now need the other 3 steps and we good

Well done!
Stop being so disrespectful.
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#159 » by Paz » Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:32 am

gom wrote:I cannot see this team improving, draft picks or not, with Spoelstra at the helm. If you give him good young talent, all they will do is sit on the bench. We cannot make a plan for the future without changing the command.


100% accurate
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Re: What's the plan for the future? 2016-2017 additions? 

Post#160 » by HEAT111 » Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:36 am

So what's this new story I'm reading about LBJ and Wade " We are going to reunite again and do better things." ? I have something on the back in my head about what went on at Vegas. Either way, just saying...

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