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PG: Brandon > Holiday

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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#181 » by AussieBuck » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:15 am

Duncan/Splitter play some minutes together but they only combine for 51 minutes a game. It just doesn't tend to happen successfully. Memphis works because ZBo works the baseline out to 18 feet and M Gasol works the high post generally out to similar depth. Gasol's offense would suffer like Boozer's when he had to go from good spacing to hanging with Noah.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#182 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:23 am

AussieBuck wrote:Duncan/Splitter play some minutes together but they only combine for 51 minutes a game. It just doesn't tend to happen successfully. Memphis works because ZBo works the baseline out to 18 feet and M Gasol works the high post generally out to similar depth. Gasol's offense would suffer like Boozer's when he had to go from good spacing to hanging with Noah.

And I'd say Boozer suffers because he's no longer in the best pick and roll tandem in the league and he was always more reliant on his midrange game then his post game unlike Gasol.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#183 » by AussieBuck » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:38 am

A post game is going to more affected by lack of spacing than a midrange game. I have no idea why this is even an argument. We've already seen Gasol's efficiency drop from having to play next to a C and here he'd have to work with a lot more defensive attention.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#184 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:44 am

AussieBuck wrote:A post game is going to more affected by lack of spacing than a midrange game. I have no idea why this is even an argument. We've already seen Gasol's efficiency drop from having to play next to a C and here he'd have to work with a lot more defensive attention.

We aren't arguing that it isn't harder to score in the paint with less spacing, I'm arguing that despite the spacing issues Gasol has proved he can score in the post. I'd say his efficiency dropped more due to him being pushed out of the lane then clogging the lane. He's still a very above average scorer in the post at 65+% (while being assisted less on those baskets) the past two seasons with Bynum and Dwight's cover in the lane and unlike those players, Larry doesn't need or deserve designed touches for him in the post.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#185 » by AussieBuck » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:40 am

He's at 31FG% in post ups.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#186 » by paul » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:50 am

I'm not dealing Ersan for Pau - or much for that matter.

Gooden and Monta have to be in it for me to consider it and then whatever works with Udoh, Fat Sammy and Daniels. I'd put in our first this year before I'd put in Tobes or Henson both of whom I like above where they were picked.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#187 » by Sigra » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:00 pm

DH34Phan wrote:When's the last time we've been over .500 at the halfway point?


Milwaukee Bucks record after first 40 games:

2012-13 -------- 22-18
2011-12 -------- 16-24
2010-11 -------- 16-24
2009-10 -------- 17-23
2008-09 -------- 19-21
2007-08 -------- 16-24
2006-07 -------- 17-23
2005-06 -------- 21-19
2004-05 -------- 15-25
2003-04 -------- 22-18 (TJ Ford's rookie year, the last time we had all star member)
2002-03 -------- 19-21
2001-02 -------- 26-14
2000-01 -------- 25-15
1999-00 -------- 22-18
1998-99 -------- 22-18
1997-98 -------- 18-22
1996-97 -------- 19-21
1995-96 -------- 15-25
1994-95 -------- 16-24
1993-94 -------- 12-28
1992-93 -------- 17-23
1991-92 -------- 19-21
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#188 » by Sigra » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:07 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Nice game by everyone.

Tease continues.....

We were 6-2. Then 16-12. Now 22-18.

Can we start breaking away and separating like the teams on the rise do? We've got three winnable games in a row to run to 25-18. I'm waiting to emotionally commit.


22-18 tease happened only 6 times in last 22 years. You can emotionally commit. You have my guarantee.

Milwaukee Bucks record after first 40 games:

2012-13 -------- 22-18
2011-12 -------- 16-24
2010-11 -------- 16-24
2009-10 -------- 17-23
2008-09 -------- 19-21
2007-08 -------- 16-24
2006-07 -------- 17-23
2005-06 -------- 21-19
2004-05 -------- 15-25
2003-04 -------- 22-18 (TJ Ford's rookie year, the last time we had all star member)
2002-03 -------- 19-21
2001-02 -------- 26-14
2000-01 -------- 25-15
1999-00 -------- 22-18
1998-99 -------- 22-18

1997-98 -------- 18-22
1996-97 -------- 19-21
1995-96 -------- 15-25
1994-95 -------- 16-24
1993-94 -------- 12-28
1992-93 -------- 17-23
1991-92 -------- 19-21
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#189 » by Sigra » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:24 pm

AussieBuck wrote:I can't believe there's so much talk of trading Ersan for Pau. I can't think of many more stupid things. If you are trading for Pau it's to play him predominately at C and giving him the space to operate as the offensive hub. Any combinatin you play with him without Ersan leaves him in the same position he was in at LA. If you are trading for Pau it's to play him for the most part beside Ersan.


Gasol and Bynum frontcourt worked just fine.

Gasol is way better than Ersan at basketball. And it make sense regarding Henson situation.

I am in.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#190 » by 4xBuck » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:43 pm

Holliday with 12 assists & a -12PD.

Too funny…
paulpressey25 wrote:Sessions and Adrien are win now players
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#191 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:20 pm

AussieBuck wrote:A post game is going to more affected by lack of spacing than a midrange game. I have no idea why this is even an argument. We've already seen Gasol's efficiency drop from having to play next to a C and here he'd have to work with a lot more defensive attention.


you act like you can only space the floor with a pf.

gasol is the center.... sanders, mam, or henson is the pf with him.

if henson can become a post threat playing alongside udoh, which he has been.....then of course gasol can be one besides sanders. you act as if hed be a rookie figuring out how to score or pass in the post with a double team :roll:

your argument is contrived because your ersan fan. a pf who can spread the floor is nice, but id much rather have a elite post threat like gasol.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#192 » by WRau1 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:25 pm

Too bad we can't pair Gasol and Ersan together in our front court. I'd love to roll out Jennings/Dunleavy/Moute/Ersan/Gasol
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#193 » by Thunder Muscle » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:32 pm

I know this has spiraled into another Gasol trade thread, but my thoughts on the game...

I would concur that this was probably one of Ellis' best game in Milwaukee. I think if he played this way majority of nights many of us wouldn't want him gone at all costs.

Jennings looked good again and coincidence or not, but seems more engaged since Skiles left. Ersan the same, who had another big game.

I wish Moute would clean up his game on offense a little bit. Another game with bad FG% and also went 1 for 4 from the line.

Henson is almost an untouchable for me right now, unless you are getting a stud in return. I really like Henson's upside once he adds a little weight and experience.

As for this Gasol talk, I don't really want him. I think his better days are gone and seems like an old Brewers move to get a "name" guy past their prime. I mean look at the red flags, he's 32, his #'s have dropped the last 2 years, he is starting to break down a bit, and he's been in sunny LA since 2007 --- I can't see him fired up to come here. I think everybody that wants him would be disappointed in the end. I'd rather have Millsap.
TBD
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#194 » by JayMKE » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:32 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:A post game is going to more affected by lack of spacing than a midrange game. I have no idea why this is even an argument. We've already seen Gasol's efficiency drop from having to play next to a C and here he'd have to work with a lot more defensive attention.


you act like you can only space the floor with a pf.

gasol is the center.... sanders, mam, or henson is the pf with him.

if henson can become a post threat playing alongside udoh, which he has been.....then of course gasol can be one besides sanders. you act as if hed be a rookie figuring out how to score or pass in the post with a double team :roll:

your argument is contrived because your ersan fan. a pf who can spread the floor is nice, but id much rather have a elite post threat like gasol.


Gasol is not an elite post threat.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#195 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:44 pm

Through 40 (22-18):

O: 25th (102.5)
D: 6th (103.3)
Pace: 5th (94.1)
Expected W-L: T-16th (.470, 38.5 wins over full season)
Actual W-L: 13th (.550, 45.1 wins over full season)
RPI: 14th (.507)
SOS: 21st (.493)
SRS: 16th (-1.13)
PPG Differential: 16th (-.70)
Hollinger Power Rank: 20th (98.595)
Hollinger Playoff Odds: 6th seed in East, 42-40, 81.8% chance of playoffs

Jennings up to .515 TS, Ilyasova up to .514 TS.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#196 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:50 pm

And absolutely not to Ilyasova for Gasol. Gasol is more of a C at this point, you add him with Sanders and our spacing is completely jacked up. Ilyasova is a perfect fit with this frontcourt moving forward.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#197 » by bigdog34 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:05 pm

There is absolutely no way I trade Ers for Gasol. No way! In order for that trade to make sense, you would have to play Gasol and Henson together right away because at least Henson can stretch the court a bit. No way does Gasol and Sanders play together as it will have the exact same effect as Gasol and Howard. Both post players clogging the paint.

We don't have to trade Ersan right now! He's got years left on his contract and his contract IS NOT crazy overpaid as many of you have stated in other threads. If you do trade him now, get some youth such as Milsap or some draft picks. Yes, I want to do well in the playoffs too, but Gasol just is not the right fit for this team. He would immediatley screw up the dynamics of this squad.

I would say try to get Derozan, Millsap, or someone of these guys caliber. Just say no to Gasol!!! Hammond, I hope you're reading this! WAY TOO MANY RISKS WITH GASOL!
Sell! Sell!! Sell!!!!
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#198 » by JimmyTheKid » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:17 pm

Fight the Tank wrote:So is Jrue Holiday only worth 6 games over Jennings now?


:lol:
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#199 » by JimmyTheKid » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:20 pm

ampd wrote:one underrated thing about the game tonight is Monta. When he plays the role he did tonight, as mostly a secondary ball handler looking to attack and get other guys involved while still giving full effort on defense, this back court actually works. I like that we used him on some more catch and shoot plays and that he didn't force a bunch of jumpers around the free throw line.

We are a much better team when we let Jennings be the #1, and Monta play to his strengths driving the lane, shooting from mid range on the catch and shoot instead of off the dribble, and dishing to open guys. When he's doing that he and Jennings aren't redundant.

However Ersan ties this whole thing together. With him as a consistent threat from outside our offense is just vastly better.


Probably Monta's best game as a Milwaukee Buck. And, yes, Ersan (tough stretch 4 that bangs for rebounds) does tie it all together. I miss Marquis Daniels in the starting lineup. :D
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#200 » by JimmyTheKid » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:23 pm

N8Frog wrote:I know this has spiraled into another Gasol trade thread, but my thoughts on the game...


Yeah, and annoying to sift through. Its weird. So many people wanted to talk about Jennings vs Holiday BEFORE the game. Jennings, a member of OUR Milwaukee Bucks, abuses Holiday and nobody wants to talk about it. :D

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