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OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts...

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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#81 » by Newz » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:52 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
You said if you have a top 5 player on your team, it doesn't mean as much. :o

Why is it different if you stay on the same team or go to another team with the top 5 player already? What difference does it make?


Is this serious, or a joke? So the Bulls should stop drafting players since Jordan is on the team? That is the same as another player LEAVING team to team up with an already established player? Do you really believe the stuff you type? There is no way you can.


What does it matter? In the end they are both playing with top 5 players and they needed that top 5 player in order to win.

The Cavs couldn't get him one like the Bulls got one for Jordan, so he went out and went to a team that already has one.

I can respect that because he wants to win, I do not respect how he did it. Clearly some people have issues understanding it.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#82 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:53 pm

You don't let that excuse fly for Sigra, but you're allowing for Michael Jordan?


Jordan never quit in a game he played in. ONCE. If you can find an example, by all means post it. He left the game for emotional reasons. You comparing that to LeBron quitting in a game is pretty laughable to me.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#83 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:54 pm

What does it matter?


What?!?! THEY DRAFTED PIPPEN. The two didn't team up via FA. You cannot believe the stuff you type.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#84 » by averageposter » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:54 pm

I think while nothing has made me think less of his athletic gifts, or his BBall IQ, I now think the intangibles, the drive, the desire, are all way down for me.

I hate the idea of comparing anyone to Jordan and we should probably just stop entirely til a new crop of young guys come up, but over the last decade Kobe and Lebron felt the closest. But right now there is no way I'd put Lebron in that class regardless of how many banners get hung in miami. The debate is over before it begins and thats too bad. I feel robbed of what might have been a little, I guess he's just not wired the same way the great ones are. We may never see another Jordan with the will and the ability, but I'm positive now Lebron is half short in that comparison.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#85 » by Newz » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:55 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
So this situation only applies to one player in the league? He is held to a different standard just because he is better than everyone else?

Unreal.


Umm, we're talking top level players. Gasol was never going to be the top player on a championship team. Why do you always to this kind of weird **** when you debate? Just to annoy people?


So you are saying that you have to hold LeBron to a different standard just because he is better than everyone else? Why?

So other guys, even guys as good as Gasol (or Shaq), can want to win, force trades, leave in free agency, etc... But LeBron James cannot?

Is Shaq a coward for going to LA? Do you think less of his championships because he went to play with Kobe and then left to play with Wade?

Or are you going to try to tell me that Shaq isn't on LeBron's level?
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#86 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:56 pm

So you are saying that you have to hold LeBron to a different standard just because he is better than everyone else? Why?


Because if he's a true superstar, he should lead his team (that he demanded be built) to a title, not bolt on them. Gasol is not an alpha player, for as much as you want to try and argue it. He's not the top guy on a contender. LeBron is. To demand personnel moves and then bolt is weak. We're just not going to agree on the topic.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#87 » by Newz » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:56 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
What does it matter?


What?!?! THEY DRAFTED PIPPEN. The two didn't team up via FA. You cannot believe the stuff you type.


So what?

Who cares if you draft him, sign him or just go to play with him?
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#88 » by blkout » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:57 pm

Newz wrote:Is Shaq a coward for going to LA? Do you think less of his championships because he went to play with Kobe and then left to play with Wade?


I don't think he left to play with Kobe, Kobe was drafted the same off-season Shaq signed. Their best player at the time was Eddie Jones.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#89 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:57 pm

So what?

Who cares if you draft him, sign him or just go to play with him?


Umm, because Pippen had no choice to go to Chicago? I think you're honestly being intentionally dense right now, or just trying to annoy. If you're going to compare situations, please compare apples to apples.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#90 » by Newz » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:57 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
So you are saying that you have to hold LeBron to a different standard just because he is better than everyone else? Why?


Because if he's a true superstar, he should lead his team (that he demanded be built) to a title, not bolt on them. Gasol is not an alpha player, for as much as you want to try and argue it. He's not the top guy on a contender. LeBron is. To demand personnel moves and then bolt is weak. We're just not going to agree on the topic.


Okay, so what you are saying is you don't respect Shaq and that you do not think he was that great because he ditched for Kobe and Wade. Got it.

We will never agree.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#91 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:59 pm

Okay, so what you are saying is you don't respect Shaq and that you do not think he was that great because he ditched for Kobe and Wade. Got it.


That makes no sense. He was paired with a star either way, whether he stays or goes to Miami. Yet another situation not comparable to this one.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#92 » by Newz » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:59 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
So what?

Who cares if you draft him, sign him or just go to play with him?


Umm, because Pippen had no choice to go to Chicago? I think you're honestly being intentionally dense right now, or just trying to annoy. If you're going to compare situations, please compare apples to apples.


... Are you serious?

Read what I said. Who cares how you get your second best player and get on a team that is in the position to win a championship?

It's not like he cheated. He saw an opportunity to go play with Wade/Bosh instead of Mo/Jamison and he took it. Michael Jordan would have done the same thing if he was stuck with guys like Mo and Jamison instead of having Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, etc.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#93 » by stevescheffler06 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:59 pm

averageposter wrote:I think while nothing has made me think less of his athletic gifts, or his BBall IQ, I now think the intangibles, the drive, the desire, are all way down for me.

I hate the idea of comparing anyone to Jordan and we should probably just stop entirely til a new crop of young guys come up, but over the last decade Kobe and Lebron felt the closest. But right now there is no way I'd put Lebron in that class regardless of how many banners get hung in miami. The debate is over before it begins and thats too bad. I feel robbed of what might have been a little, I guess he's just not wired the same way the great ones are. We may never see another Jordan with the will and the ability, but I'm positive now Lebron is half short in that comparison.


This. Dead-on. He's not the 'King' or the "Chosen One". He's a once in a lifetime talent with an average drive and average at best killer instinct. He wants the jewelry. He doesn't want the all out battle to get it.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#94 » by emunney » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:00 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
You don't let that excuse fly for Sigra, but you're allowing for Michael Jordan?


Jordan never quit in a game he played in. ONCE. If you can find an example, by all means post it. He left the game for emotional reasons. You comparing that to LeBron quitting in a game is pretty laughable to me.


Where did I compare it to LeBron quitting in a game? Also, I am certain that MJ has taken the edge off his competetiveness in games he was losing by 30, just as I am sure that he quit basketball altogether. He **** quit basketball. He. Quit. BASKETBALL.

I'm not judging him. You get one life. Sometimes you gotta play baseball, I don't know. But I don't see how that's totally excusable while LeBron changing teams isn't. Like almost everyone else, I think the way he did it was in poor taste, but not to the extent it's being represented here, and not to the extent that it won't be broadly forgotten (outside of CLE) if he's on that podium in 11 months.

And as has been said, if they were letting LeBron control personnel decisions, then they are totally incompetent, and Dan Gilbert is really the one who created this situation. Which, again, is not to say that LeBron acted well within it.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#95 » by Newz » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:00 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
Okay, so what you are saying is you don't respect Shaq and that you do not think he was that great because he ditched for Kobe and Wade. Got it.


That makes no sense. He was paired with a star either way, whether he stays or goes to Miami. Yet another situation not comparable to this one.


WHAT?! :lol: :lol: :lol:

So it doesn't matter because he had a star player on his team already?!

Are you **** serious?
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#96 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:01 pm

Read what I said. Who cares how you get your second best player and get on a team that is in the position to win a championship?


Dude. You said "Jordan is weak for teaming up with Pippen" or something comparable. Jordan didn't team up with anyone, he was already there and they drafted Pippen. LeBron is bolting his team to go with established stars. If you're too dense to realize why this comparison holds no merit, I am not going to take any time to explain it to you.

But there is really just no point to continue debating situations that are not comparable. What is next, if the Bucks win a title, "Bogut teamed up with Jennings"?
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#97 » by stevescheffler06 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:01 pm

Newz wrote:It's not like he cheated. He saw an opportunity to go play with Wade/Bosh instead of Mo/Jamison and he took it. Michael Jordan would have done the same thing if he was stuck with guys like Mo and Jamison instead of having Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, etc.


I completely disagree with this. Jordan wasn't an "easiest path" guy. He'd stay and fight. Plus, I think it's disingenuous to say 'stuck with' when he had so much to do with them being there in the first place.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#98 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:02 pm

WHAT?! :lol: :lol: :lol:

So it doesn't matter because he had a star player on his team already?!


You're comparing Shaq leaving Kobe to Wade to LeBron leaving who to Wade? I'm interested.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#99 » by Newz » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:03 pm

stevescheffler06 wrote:
Newz wrote:It's not like he cheated. He saw an opportunity to go play with Wade/Bosh instead of Mo/Jamison and he took it. Michael Jordan would have done the same thing if he was stuck with guys like Mo and Jamison instead of having Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, etc.


I completely disagree with this. Jordan wasn't an "easiest path" guy. He'd stay and fight. Plus, I think it's disingenuous to say 'stuck with' when he had so much to do with them being there in the first place.


Jordan had a top 5 player in the league in Scottie Pippen by his 7th season. LeBron James has Mo Williams. Jordan would 'stay and fight'? The dude retired from basketball to take a break from it.

Again, why is everyone putting it on LeBron. "THOSE ARE THE GUYS HE WANTED!" How does the Cavaliers pathetic organization not get called out? The Lakers do not let Kobe run the team. The Bulls didn't let Jordan run the team.

I don't think it matters if you stay somewhere and they bring in a star for you or if you just go out and get the other star yourself. It really doesn't matter to me and I see no difference to be honest.
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Re: OT: LeBron Bashin T-Shirts... 

Post#100 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:03 pm

It's not like he cheated. He saw an opportunity to go play with Wade/Bosh instead of Mo/Jamison and he took it. Michael Jordan would have done the same thing if he was stuck with guys like Mo and Jamison instead of having Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, etc.


He would have never left Chicago. He would have told Reinsdorf to make better moves. Jordan took his beatings at the hands of Detroit for multiple years. But there was no risk of him leaving Chicago seriously that I can remember. So obviously, I completely disagree with the above comment.

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