OT: Good TV Shows - 2012 - WARNING: CONTAINS SPOILERS

Ill-yasova · Post #1401 » by **Ill-yasova** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:58 am

jeremyd236 wrote:I strongly dislike the "evolution" of Rick. He's doing what he has to to "keep the group alive" and to "keep Lori and Carl safe", but what's the point?

I strongly LIKE it because he's stopped being a weak, sniveling, indecisive leader who is always trying to "do the right thing". The old Rick would have given that inmate the benefit of a doubt until he killed a member of their group.

Turk Nowitzki · Post #1402 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:25 am

jeremyd236 wrote:I strongly dislike the "evolution" of Rick. He's doing what he has to to "keep the group alive" and to "keep Lori and Carl safe", but what's the point?

What do you mean what's the point? It's a zombie apocalypse, you either toughen up and adapt to survive or give up and die. The latter certainly wouldn't make for a very interesting TV show.

jeremyd236 · Post #1403 » by **jeremyd236** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:51 pm

Turk Nowitzki wrote:
jeremyd236 wrote:I strongly dislike the "evolution" of Rick. He's doing what he has to to "keep the group alive" and to "keep Lori and Carl safe", but what's the point?

What do you mean what's the point? It's a zombie apocalypse, you either toughen up and adapt to survive or give up and die. The latter certainly wouldn't make for a very interesting TV show.

I understand that. He's lost his wife and his child his messed up. What's the point in "keeping Lori and Carl safe" (stated 10x per episode), if you've "lost" them? I think the show will take a very Breaking Bad route - I think he's going to get so warped into being the leader that Shane said he had to be that he is going to lose touch with his humanity.

jeremyd236 · Post #1404 » by **jeremyd236** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:52 pm

Ill-yasova wrote:
jeremyd236 wrote:I strongly dislike the "evolution" of Rick. He's doing what he has to to "keep the group alive" and to "keep Lori and Carl safe", but what's the point?

I strongly LIKE it because he's stopped being a weak, sniveling, indecisive leader who is always trying to "do the right thing". The old Rick would have given that inmate the benefit of a doubt until he killed a member of their group.

Really? When has that ever happened before? You mean with the kid they locked up in the barn, right? The one who did not try to kill another - rather, he got killed by someone in Rick's group.

emunney · Post #1405 » by **emunney** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:12 pm

I like that Rick's changing because it makes sense for him to change. His shifting moral code has been earned by the story. That he's becoming more amoral doesn't make him less human, imo. Everybody goes through these cognitive adaptations. They're just more pronounced with Rick because of the extreme nature of the scenarios he keeps facing. It's going to get so much crazier than it's been so far, and the characters that survive will have to keep adapting.

Moral judgments really don't interest me. He killed Tomas because Tomas had just tried to kill him twice. No brainer for Rick at this point. It would have been a major character betrayal if Rick had let him live.

Existential questions have been a big part of the show from the jump, and for the most part characters have to answer the "What's the point?" question for themselves (side note: I'm grateful that both the asking and the answering has been less explicit recently). Rick's motivation at this point is to survive and lead the group. That last scene was a great illustration: he still clearly has feelings for Lori, but the gratitude he expresses for saving Hershel is on behalf of the group as it's leader, not as Rick the individual, and certainly not as Lori's husband.

wisconsinjr · Post #1406 » by **wisconsinjr** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:38 pm

Exactly.

For me what makes the show so interesting this year is seeing the characters adapt and change into different version of what they were before. You see them start to change priorities, characteristics and react to things in an so many extreme situations. You wander how far they will start to stray from what they once were. You wonder how strong their will to survive is considering the methods they have to take to ensure that survival...and what that survival even means anymore.

The increased action this season obviously helps deliver the goods as well. But it's the character studies...specifically of Rick for me... that really keep me engaged.

So far this season has been an "A" for me.

I do worry what how the next episode will fair however when it seems to be from the previews largely "prison-free" and focusing almost exclusively on characters we barely know or have never met yet. That's an interesting single episode concept you don't often see in a show that is 3 seasons in.

jeremyd236 · Post #1407 » by **jeremyd236** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:33 pm

emunney wrote:I like that Rick's changing because it makes sense for him to change. His shifting moral code has been earned by the story. That he's becoming more amoral doesn't make him less human, imo. Everybody goes through these cognitive adaptations. They're just more pronounced with Rick because of the extreme nature of the scenarios he keeps facing. It's going to get so much crazier than it's been so far, and the characters that survive will have to keep adapting.

Moral judgments really don't interest me. He killed Tomas because Tomas had just tried to kill him twice. No brainer for Rick at this point. It would have been a major character betrayal if Rick had let him live.

Existential questions have been a big part of the show from the jump, and for the most part characters have to answer the "What's the point?" question for themselves (side note: I'm grateful that both the asking and the answering has been less explicit recently). Rick's motivation at this point is to survive and lead the group. That last scene was a great illustration: he still clearly has feelings for Lori, but the gratitude he expresses for saving Hershel is on behalf of the group as it's leader, not as Rick the individual, and certainly not as Lori's husband.

Excellent analysis, I agree with everything you said. I should note that I was not saying "what's the point" in response to Rick killing other human beings; he absolutely had to in this situation. It was more in response to him losing Lori, which you addressed.

I am also especially grateful that they've been less explicit in the whole "what's the point?" thing for each character. Personally, I enjoy watching shows for deeper meaning (assuming it exists), and there's certainly a lot of it in the Walking Dead. But I also understand that there's people who watch it simply because zombies are getting shot and such. So it really bothers me when shows sort of "dumb down" and throw the deep issues (in this case, the "who cares?") right in the viewers' face.

Turk Nowitzki · Post #1408 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:55 pm

Homeland. It is incredible. Everyone should watch it. That is all.

chuckleslove · Post #1409 » by **chuckleslove** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:32 pm

Revolution has followed a similar format to Lost in that we are getting character flashbacks bit by bit to show their history. I'm not sure where they are going to go with the show but it has a similar feel though not as hooking from the start.

It is enjoyable for now I just don't know if it is going to have enough depth to carry it for a while and I just don't know how they can stretch the story out beyond a certain point.

Bernman · Post #1410 » by **Bernman** » Fri Nov 2, 2012 4:05 pm

The shows which used to be good are really making a comeback this season. Dexter regained their mojo by revealing to Deb that Dex is a serial killer, the last two Sunny episodes have had a lot of twists, and the league was saved by Rafi. Sunny made the biggest turnaround. Before they were just filling time bringing back old characters and jokes. Dexter was pretty bad with the stale religious fanatic killers the last season. I had stopped watching completely.

emunney · Post #1411 » by **emunney** » Fri Nov 2, 2012 4:19 pm

Rafi is great. The farther it strays from fantasy football, the better The League is.

xTitan · Post #1412 » by **xTitan** » Fri Nov 2, 2012 5:05 pm

emunney wrote:Rafi is great. The farther it strays from fantasy football, the better The League is.

I love that show, reminds me of how cutting myself and my friends were growing up....

A Diddy2231 · Post #1413 » by **A Diddy2231** » Mon Nov 5, 2012 2:22 am

Down goes another!!! Figured it would be him or the blonde girl to go next

Turk Nowitzki · Post #1414 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Mon Nov 5, 2012 3:06 am

TWD took it to a whole new level tonight.

ReddWing · Post #1415 » by **ReddWing** » Mon Nov 5, 2012 4:10 am

Turk Nowitzki wrote:TWD took it to a whole new level tonight.

jeremyd236 · Post #1416 » by **jeremyd236** » Mon Nov 5, 2012 6:06 am

*SPOILER ALERT*

Just saw the Walking Dead. Holy ****. If Rick lost his touch with humanity before, he will be on a different level now.

Can you imagine going on living with a child that isn't yours and a son that executed your wife? He's going to be hell bent to say the least.

Post #1417 » by **ReasonablySober** » Mon Nov 5, 2012 3:45 pm

Spoiler discussion for those that have read the books.

I liked how Lori bit it in the books a lot more, but I almost think they needed to go this route instead. Having a mother and her new born die at the same time via a gun shot would have been too much. But man, that would have made for an amazing ending to the season.

I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop in Woodbury. Have to think that the "entertainment" is the battles the Governor puts on. The only question is whether or not one of the regulars is involved.

emunney · Post #1418 » by **emunney** » Thu Nov 8, 2012 4:30 pm

I was genuinely surprised by that episode of TWD. Also that representation of labor was pretty unlikely, but whatever.

For DB:

I also definitely prefer Lori's death in the book. The suddenness of it mainly, but also the fact that it came at the hands of a human villain. Something about this felt a bit off to me, but it's not a deal breaker. I'll go with it.

I'll be disappointed if Rick finishes this half-season with both hands.

I'm really looking forward to a Michonne/Governor showdown. That conflict is amazing in the book and is already pretty tense in the show.

I didn't notice the mention of 'entertainment', but I still fully expect to see the arena play a role in how the Woodbury thing plays out.

jimmybones · Post #1419 » by **jimmybones** » Thu Nov 8, 2012 4:43 pm

Haven't read thread yet, trying to avoid spoilers until I watch the most episode of Dexter. Any Walking Dead fans? I watched like 5 episodes of season one and liked it but need to get caught up before I can watch live. Is it currently season 3?

jeremyd236 · Post #1420 » by **jeremyd236** » Thu Nov 8, 2012 4:46 pm

jimmybones wrote:Haven't read thread yet, trying to avoid spoilers until I watch the most episode of Dexter. Any Walking Dead fans? I watched like 5 episodes of season one and liked it but need to get caught up before I can watch live. Is it currently season 3?

Haha yeah it's in season 3 right now. If I were you, I would not read any of this thread as there are huge Walking Dead spoilers that would likely ruin seasons 2 and 3 for you.