ImageImage

Drew Gooden appreciation thread

Moderators: paulpressey25, MickeyDavis

User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 72,264
And1: 6,213
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#41 » by LUKE23 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:06 pm

He still sucks.
User avatar
blkout
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,689
And1: 1,914
Joined: Dec 12, 2005
Location: Melbourne
 

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#42 » by blkout » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:08 pm

smauss wrote:I would appreciate him playing for a different team.....


:lol: /thread
Image
Treebeard
Head Coach
Posts: 7,163
And1: 1,739
Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Location: Out in the Driftless Area
     

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#43 » by Treebeard » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:44 pm

This has to be one of the best years of his career. Having said that, I still think he gives up as many points as he scores. I believe that most of his stats are hollow - it's real impact is not as good as it appears. His net impact should be replaceable by someone with more potential, and a smaller, shorter contract.
*******************************************************
neiLz
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,177
And1: 1,475
Joined: Oct 04, 2011
Location: Riverwest
     

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#44 » by neiLz » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:50 pm

Gooden had 23 8 and 7 last night. However, I saw The Kardasian Husband had 31 and 15 or something... I didnt see the game but I assumed MR humphries career night had something to do with gooden guarding him. Maybe I am wrong but if he was indeed guarding humphries than Gooden's numbers are worthless.
Sigra
RealGM
Posts: 15,160
And1: 1,221
Joined: Sep 08, 2005
Location: Sarajevo, Bosnia
     

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#45 » by Sigra » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:18 pm

LUKE23 wrote:He still sucks.


Not as much as Jennings that's for sure. This year Gooden is better than Jennings at least if we look at their stats (Per36, PER, TS%, ORtg-DRtg, WS/48)
James1980
Veteran
Posts: 2,692
And1: 366
Joined: Jul 02, 2003
Location: Milwaukee
     

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#46 » by James1980 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:29 pm

I thought he was traded seeing this tread, dissapointing.
NotYoAvgNBAFan wrote:I overlook foolishness.
aboveAverage
RealGM
Posts: 10,789
And1: 2,604
Joined: Mar 25, 2006
 

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#47 » by aboveAverage » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:58 pm

I think there's a group of people on here who like to hate on certain players no matter what they do. And make ridiculous statements like Gooden is the worst player in the league.

Gooden has been playing well. I'm not a Gooden supporter by any means, but he's been more than decent since Bogut's gone down. Not sure what more you can expect from him. If anything, he might be tradeable now.
Treebeard
Head Coach
Posts: 7,163
And1: 1,739
Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Location: Out in the Driftless Area
     

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#48 » by Treebeard » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:07 pm

aboveAverage wrote: If anything, he might be tradeable now.


Yes, indeed. Move him now, while he is performing reasonably well.
*******************************************************
User avatar
paul
RealGM
Posts: 32,398
And1: 1,038
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
 

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#49 » by paul » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:09 pm

Come on Lakeshow, you know you want to pony up that first round pick with Luke Walton for him :D
User avatar
paul
RealGM
Posts: 32,398
And1: 1,038
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
 

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#50 » by paul » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:11 pm

aboveAverage wrote:I think there's a group of people on here who like to hate on certain players no matter what they do. And make ridiculous statements like Gooden is the worst player in the league.

Gooden has been playing well. I'm not a Gooden supporter by any means, but he's been more than decent since Bogut's gone down. Not sure what more you can expect from him. If anything, he might be tradeable now.


He's been playing well for Gooden, you need to qualify that aA. His defense has still made my eyes bleed on a nightly basis.

I don't think he's the worst player in the league but it makes me crazy when people say how well he's played just as his man gets another uncontested dunk.
User avatar
smauss
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,710
And1: 415
Joined: Jul 23, 2005
Contact:
     

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#51 » by smauss » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:11 pm

Treebeard wrote:
aboveAverage wrote: If anything, he might be tradeable now.


Yes, indeed. Move him now, while he is performing reasonably well.


:nod:
"Too many people ask for help, and sometimes you have to help yourself." - Jerry Sloan (CBQ is missed)

simul justus et peccator
averageposter
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,804
And1: 722
Joined: Jan 26, 2006

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#52 » by averageposter » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:32 pm

paul wrote:
I don't think he's the worst player in the league but it makes me crazy when people say how well he's played just as his man gets another uncontested dunk.


I think you mean when he fails to help on Jennings man. I was going to say that Drew's help defense was bad, but that would imply it exists. However at the 5 I feel like he's done an average job man to man. I see good fight/effort even against the few really good centers like Howard. I think that average D breaks down a bit when teams go small against us to compensate for opposing centers poor D on Drew's outside shooting. But playing the space eater types inside he's really been the best option, including "good" defenders like Ersan and Sanders. He's athletic enough to be a decent help defender but his timing and awareness seem to be keeping that from happening.

I hated the deal, still not a fan of the deal, but I just can't hate on Drew. He puts too much effort on the court for me to throw the kind of venom he gets on this board. Either way his value should be an all-time high and his plus/minus history suggests winning with him is difficult, so he should be moved if the opportunity presents itself, but I still respect the guys effort night in and night out.
User avatar
unklchuk
Head Coach
Posts: 6,141
And1: 94
Joined: Jun 27, 2005

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#53 » by unklchuk » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:40 pm

averageposter wrote:
paul wrote:
I don't think he's the worst player in the league but it makes me crazy when people say how well he's played just as his man gets another uncontested dunk.


I think you mean when he fails to help on Jennings man. I was going to say that Drew's help defense was bad, but that would imply it exists. However at the 5 I feel like he's done an average job man to man. I see good fight/effort even against the few really good centers like Howard. I think that average D breaks down a bit when teams go small against us to compensate for opposing centers poor D on Drew's outside shooting. But playing the space eater types inside he's really been the best option, including "good" defenders like Ersan and Sanders. He's athletic enough to be a decent help defender but his timing and awareness seem to be keeping that from happening.

I hated the deal, still not a fan of the deal, but I just can't hate on Drew. He puts too much effort on the court for me to throw the kind of venom he gets on this board. Either way his value should be an all-time high and his plus/minus history suggests winning with him is difficult, so he should be moved if the opportunity presents itself, but I still respect the guys effort night in and night out.


Thank you for that post. Good to read in this forum, where other opinions have run rampant. (Official disclaimer: they have a right to run rampant; I have a right to disagree.)

I've hatched a cockamamie theory. Appears to me that Gooden's brain is connected to his hands. I see him play pretty fair defense with his hands. With some anticipation. But for some reason it looks like it isn't connected to his feet. His feet play bad defense. No anticipation.


:wink:
AFAIK, IDKM
aboveAverage
RealGM
Posts: 10,789
And1: 2,604
Joined: Mar 25, 2006
 

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#54 » by aboveAverage » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:43 pm

I would also add that his help defense is atrocious, in fact he doesn't even provide ANY help defense at all. But he's probably our most consistent offensive threat within 20 feet, so that's something to be praised.

Again, I'd like to see him gone this week, simply because I don't believe he can keep up this level of play, and because of his terrible help defense.
EastSideBucksFan
RealGM
Posts: 18,712
And1: 4,490
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Contact:
 

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#55 » by EastSideBucksFan » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:47 pm

ArodpwnsFavre wrote:Gooden had 23 8 and 7 last night. However, I saw The Kardasian Husband had 31 and 15 or something... I didnt see the game but I assumed MR humphries career night had something to do with gooden guarding him. Maybe I am wrong but if he was indeed guarding humphries than Gooden's numbers are worthless.



Ersan was guarding Humphries.

Then larry Sanders

Then Jon Leuer

Then Jon Brockman.

Gooden was on Shelden Williams/Johan Petro all night.
User avatar
blkout
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,689
And1: 1,914
Joined: Dec 12, 2005
Location: Melbourne
 

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#56 » by blkout » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:03 pm

Almost nothing he does impresses me, I think his offense is a myth too. He scores a lot because he shoots a lot, 70% of his attempts are jumpers and he shoots them at 38%. He's also assisted on 67% of his baskets, which is funny because he takes the large majority of his shots in the first 15 seconds of the shot clock. The ball barely crosses the half way line before he takes a shot.

The areas he is decent at scoring at he neglects quite a bit in favor of jacking up more shots from outside 16 feet. He hits those at 43% but takes 5 of them per game (nearly 1/2 of his shots).

His rebounding is at career lows both offensively and defensively, his turnovers and shot attempts are at near career highs and his TS% is below average not just league wide but for his position.

The team is better with him off the court than on it statistically, ball movement improves (61% assisted vs 57 without him), offensive rebounding improves, teams go from shooting 53eFG when he's on the floor to 45.6 when he's off it, meanwhile his offense only contributes an improvement of 0.4% when he's on the floor. So you get less than 1% better offensively and nearly 8% worse defensively. His numbers every now and then look nice on a box score but they always come at a cost.
Image
User avatar
Bernman
RealGM
Posts: 24,554
And1: 5,473
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
Location: Into the Great White Nothing
     

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#57 » by Bernman » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:04 pm

He's fool's gold. Teams can abuse his because he provides next to no help on pick and pops and around the basket. Offensively, he's sporting a mediocre ts% of 52.7, has a high-ish turnover rate, and takes a long time to make his moves so he hurts his teammates when he doesn't take the shot. The only area where he isn't a liability is rebounding, where he's merely decent. This is why his teams have statistically been better without him on the floor in the last 11-12 situations. There is zero way that's a coincidence. He's a 12th man who you should bring in to potentially save your team in the occasional game they're struggling because he's not devoid of offensive talent.
"TRADE GIANNIS" - Magic Giannison
User avatar
unklchuk
Head Coach
Posts: 6,141
And1: 94
Joined: Jun 27, 2005

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#58 » by unklchuk » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:38 pm

He's a 12th man



Worse than Brockman?

IMHO he's a mid-roster player "promoted" above his talent because our team doesn't have a spotlight player. The Bucks have a vacuum. He comes closer than Jennings or anyone to filling it. Close enough? No.
AFAIK, IDKM
Sigra
RealGM
Posts: 15,160
And1: 1,221
Joined: Sep 08, 2005
Location: Sarajevo, Bosnia
     

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#59 » by Sigra » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:45 pm

aboveAverage wrote:I would also add that his help defense is atrocious, in fact he doesn't even provide ANY help defense at all.


That's just not true. I have seen him take a charge many times. That is help defense as well.

I am not big fan of Skiles those days but he is not complete moron really. He wouldn't play Gooden this much if he is as bad as peope here say he is.

And if he really is that bad then how the hell we win games lately? Delfino sucks game after game. Harris, Brockman, Leuer are no factor at all. Bogut, Moute, Livingston and Jackson are injured. How the hell we win games with Gooden actually hurting us? Jennings is hot and cold. Is it all Ersan and Dunleavy? Those 2 guys are the reason why we win all tihs games? They are so powerfull that they can win games for us even with Gooden being negative presence? Really?
Treebeard
Head Coach
Posts: 7,163
And1: 1,739
Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Location: Out in the Driftless Area
     

Re: Drew Gooden appreciation thread 

Post#60 » by Treebeard » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:50 pm

blkout wrote:Almost nothing he does impresses me, I think his offense is a myth too. He scores a lot because he shoots a lot, 70% of his attempts are jumpers and he shoots them at 38%. He's also assisted on 67% of his baskets, which is funny because he takes the large majority of his shots in the first 15 seconds of the shot clock. The ball barely crosses the half way line before he takes a shot.

The areas he is decent at scoring at he neglects quite a bit in favor of jacking up more shots from outside 16 feet. He hits those at 43% but takes 5 of them per game (nearly 1/2 of his shots).

His rebounding is at career lows both offensively and defensively, his turnovers and shot attempts are at near career highs and his TS% is below average not just league wide but for his position.

The team is better with him off the court than on it statistically, ball movement improves (61% assisted vs 57 without him), offensive rebounding improves, teams go from shooting 53eFG when he's on the floor to 45.6 when he's off it, meanwhile his offense only contributes an improvement of 0.4% when he's on the floor. So you get less than 1% better offensively and nearly 8% worse defensively. His numbers every now and then look nice on a box score but they always come at a cost.


+1
*******************************************************

Return to Milwaukee Bucks